Where My Grenades At, Bro?

[DetergentPod]

Grenade?? Nooooo!!! What we need are NUKES. Show those fking Grineer how it feels like to get blown up. I'm sick of being knocked down cuz some sneaky grineer manage to get a grenade in my face. I say we detonate a NUKE in their face.

[11.11.11]

Grenades/explosives do not mix well with pressurised spaceships, and mining platforms. I already have enough issues breaking windows with my sword. Imagine how many hull breaches there'd be with grenades in the mix.

[Scyfle]

We got AOE for most frames, grenades are not needed.

[UkyoSonoda]

We got AOE for most frames, grenades are not needed.

Which is why I wonder what frame the people that keep asking for grenades to be added play as.

[Scyfle]

Probably Excalibur, the most basic of suits.

[UkyoSonoda]

I was thinking more loki, trinity, rhino.

The other frames all get respectable damage output via frame skills.

[Arlayn]

Technicly ninjas DO have gernades. The gernades could come out of an opening on the suit meaning one of the plates on the suit move and open up revealing the gernades for them to pull out and throw. Having a smoke bomb, acid splash gernade, or Wasp Gernade could serve its uses to distract, or weaken enemies. Also if your all hell bent on abilites we could replace super jump with gernades on Excalibur lol... I still like super jump more then the idea of gernades though. We do fine but I want more versatility in combat, like take an unmanned turret and shoot down waves of enemies as they come at you, jack a jackal and kill some people with it. Something advanced the lack of gernades does seem odd considering the bad version of Dark Sector had gernades and in the version they originally wanted of DarkSector they had devices they could slap on a jackal and control it. Something to throw at th enemies would be nice... I am all for throwing things...

[MasterVega]

Really guys? Give me one good reason for the Tenno NOT to have grenades. Other than you know, you don't feel like it.

Going back to this particular comment as a launch pad for my own two cents on this issue:

Why? Game balance. Grenades in real life are OP, so OP in fact that you can't throw one far enough to be outside its "casualty zone" and therefore MUST use cover in order to prevent injuring yourself and your teammates. Since there isn't friendly fire in Warframe (and I hope it never shows up here - imagine the grievers), you'd either end up with a game-breaking AOE attack or a lack-luster bomb that doesn't live up to your expectations.

I see no in-world reason for Tenno to not carry grenades, though.

[Arlayn]

It doesnt have to be an explosive gernade that kills you know. As i said in my explantion it could have other effects, such as poison gas, making a acid puddle on the ground, a gernade that creates a sorta fire spot on the ground so when enemies cant cross for awhile without potentially dying from it, it could be a sticky gernde that sticks them to the ground, it could be smoke bomb to turn you invisible within the cloud, it could be a healing gernade that heals all within it... the list can go on.

[Puckeye]

This. this times a million. People suggesting grenades? Really? As if all the warframes don't have enough AoE, and how easy it is to find some Energy to refill...

Although I wouldn't mind a future weapon having an explosive attribute. As long as it doesn't send drops flying off the map.

Whenever a drop "flies off the map" it respawns somewhere atainable... Didn't you notice that? I guess it uses the same system that respawns you when you fall off the map...

And Arcalane I like your idea. ;)

Just for fun I'd have powers 1 and 3 "lock" on to a waypoint beacon too. So a teammate could indicate a potential spot for you to hit. :) By lock I mean when you put your crosshair on the waypoint the crosshair could change colour to indicate that the powers will target the waypoint instead. lol

[DetergentPod]

I think a Flash Bang or smoke grenade work really well in stealth mission or getting out of a sticky situtation. Ash's stun is what I alway use to get out of a sticky situtation. It's basically a combination of a smoke and flash grenade. :D

[wheatnoodles]

Whenever a drop "flies off the map" it respawns somewhere atainable... Didn't you notice that? I guess it uses the same system that respawns you when you fall off the map...

Not all the time.

[lamiadomina]

I run a level 30 Ember, 30 Volt and 29 Mag at present. I actually would like it if any frame at all had a good ranged AoE instead of the PBAoE these all get. I was kind of excited when I read about Nyx's direct damage power for that reason but all the word on the streets has been that it's terrible.

[Puckeye]

Not all the time.

Well your experience is different then mine... I've never seen a mod or energy/health/afinity ball drop off the map and never reappear. Most of the time my first reaction is "damn it fell off" looking down at the empty pit only to turn around and find the ball or mod right there lol...

[Lagniprimatte]

If you suppress the Tenno from having grenades, why are Grineer given grenades? Honestly, this game is way too lacking. From what I can see, it is a cheap rip off of concepts like Warhammer.

[Torguish]

Lots when you sneak attack and kill everyone in the room with a dagger before any of them can reach a control console.

There has been maybe 5 complete stealth runs at least on youtube, this game does not have proper stealth mechanics yet. YET. UNDERSTAND?

They will implement it but IT ISN'T THERE YET.

[Puckeye]

If you suppress the Tenno from having grenades, why are Grineer given grenades? Honestly, this game is way too lacking. From what I can see, it is a cheap rip off of concepts like Warhammer.

You call warframes "suppressed"?!? I don't know many things that can go through a ship, kill 50 to 100 (or more) ennemies and come out onscathed...

Sounds pretty simple to me... Grineers and Tenno are completely different species. So if we turn your inquiry then we'd have to give the Grineers the warframes special ability too? [sarcasm] Well if Tenno can can shoot a bunch a javelin then Grineer should be able to as well and don't forget the corpus and infested they want something too... [/sarcams]

Let's not stop there, you want to vomit acid? Oh how about you poison everything that comes too close? Maybe you want to fly around and drop red exploding dung?

And that cheap shot you did about Warhammer, there aren't many games that can't be traced to others either through evolution or just being inspired by them. Then again this is a beta and as such it is incomplete and in testing which we all signed up for.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Puckeye

[Milenos]

If you suppress the Tenno from having grenades, why are Grineer given grenades? Honestly, this game is way too lacking. From what I can see, it is a cheap rip off of concepts like Warhammer.

Someone here doesn't know what Beta mean.

[UkyoSonoda]

There has been maybe 5 complete stealth runs at least on youtube, this game does not have proper stealth mechanics yet. YET. UNDERSTAND?

They will implement it but IT ISN'T THERE YET.

And what would you call "proper stealth mechanics"? The game playing like Metal Gear Solid?

Breaking corpus cameras without being seen by it or enemy units - Working stealth mechanic.

Not standing or running around in the open where you can be spotted - Working stealth Mechanic

Sneaking up behind enemies and killing them before they react - Working stealth Mechanic

Getting spotted yet killing the enemy before they can reach a console and report it - Working stealth mechanic

Breaching the hull tends to cause alert status.

The ammo explosion/ship fire event tends to have the ship permanently be on alert status.

I've also observed enemies going into startled or paniced reaction animations when I suprise them while they aren't aware of my presence. Certain weapons and skills are far less likely to alert other enemies in the room when used as well.

Currently there is no bonus reward for doing missions undetected or stealthy. Also it's a 1 shot thing as you can't just hide in a hole or under a box and wait for enemies to drop alert status when you blow it. However doing missions stealthy is nice at times when you just don't feel like dealing with 200-300 enemies pouring at you from every direction non stop.

[RussetRabbit]

I am okay with there being no grenades. Warframes are warriors, bot meatheads that dont know how to shoot.

[MJ12]

I am okay with there being no grenades. Warframes are warriors, bot meatheads that dont know how to shoot.

People who know how to shoot tend to prefer grenades.

There is no reason not to provide characters with grenades.

For one, not every Warframe has area-effect crowd control. This is a big thing since it's a pretty important fact in the game. The frames everyone talks about being OP have a good area-effect crowd control power (Volt, Excalibur).

For two, the crowd control methods tend to be extremely overkill (Ultimates) or rather weak and centered around the frame itself, which means you can't really use them to take out massed enemies in cover.

For three, does 'not having grenades' really add much to the game? I mean, if you think Warframes should be unique and grenades would step on those toes, they could all have unique grenades. Rhino could have a 'Bubble grenade' which creates a bubble shield that prevents anyone from shooting in or out, Frost could have a Freeze Grenade which slows, Trinity could even have transfusion grenades.

For four, they don't have to be generic murder bombs, as noted above.

[lamiadomina]

Re: Stealth mechanics - I definitely have encountered very dense enemy patrols in rooms that made it exceedingly difficult to kill them before somebody got to an alarm, barring popping an ult to clear it. I've managed to occasionally clear a mission without any alarms and so I am definitely not going to say that it's impossible. It might be nice, though, if there was some way to disappear again after being spotted even once. It's pretty all or nothing as it is right now.

Ed: And seriously, Grineer heavies in small areas are basically just the end for any stealth run.

Edited February 17, 2013 by lamiadomina

[UkyoSonoda]

People who know how to shoot tend to prefer grenades.

There is no reason not to provide characters with grenades.

For one, not every Warframe has area-effect crowd control. This is a big thing since it's a pretty important fact in the game. The frames everyone talks about being OP have a good area-effect crowd control power (Volt, Excalibur).

For two, the crowd control methods tend to be extremely overkill (Ultimates) or rather weak and centered around the frame itself, which means you can't really use them to take out massed enemies in cover.

For three, does 'not having grenades' really add much to the game? I mean, if you think Warframes should be unique and grenades would step on those toes, they could all have unique grenades. Rhino could have a 'Bubble grenade' which creates a bubble shield that prevents anyone from shooting in or out, Frost could have a Freeze Grenade which slows, Trinity could even have transfusion grenades.

For four, they don't have to be generic murder bombs, as noted above.

Point 1. The reason not every warframe has an AoE crowd control/damage skill is because such a thing does not fit every warframe's theme.

Point 2. Most AoE ultimates don't care about line of sight or cover usage. They are centered around the user which balances them a little by forcing players to run out and expose themselves to get optimal coverage with it. Where as you wouldn't need to expose yourself at all to throw a grenade.

Point 3. Bubble grenade sounds too much like snow globe, Frost can already freeze targets at range, Trinity already is a walking transfusion grenade.

Point 4. The grenades they keep asking for are generic murder bombs.

Also people that know how to shoot don't need grenades. Unless I'm doing something like farming Xini for mods I tend to not bother using most of my frame skills unless I'm simply feeling lazy.

[MJ12]

Point 1. The reason not every warframe has an AoE crowd control/damage skill is because such a thing does not fit every warframe's theme.

Which is exactly why grenades are a good idea, because some way to kill/damage/incapacitate a large group of enemies is pretty necessary if you get swarmed. As a bonus grenades will also presumably either use their own ammo, inventory slots, or something other than energy, which allows for more use of powers instead of saving up for those AoE skills (which is already a huge problem now).

Point 2. Most AoE ultimates don't care about line of sight or cover usage. They are centered around the user which balances them a little by forcing players to run out and expose themselves to get optimal coverage with it. Where as you wouldn't need to expose yourself at all to throw a grenade.

And a grenade isn't going to nuke an entire room, as a counterpoint.

Point 3. Bubble grenade sounds too much like snow globe, Frost can already freeze targets at range, Trinity already is a walking transfusion grenade.

And? Rhino Charge/Slash Dash are similar, as are Teleport and Switch Teleport and Invisibility/Smoke bomb. Many Warframes do share similar skills. So giving Rhino a way to shield friends, giving Frost an AoE freeze (note that Freeze is hard to aim and lacks AoE), and Trinity's skills right now need massive reworking anyways.

Point 4. The grenades they keep asking for are generic murder bombs.

And generic murder bombs do also have a place in the arsenal. Alongside more unique weapons.

Also people that know how to shoot don't need grenades. Unless I'm doing something like farming Xini for mods I tend to not bother using most of my frame skills unless I'm simply feeling lazy.

When they nerf multishot and puncture like they've been saying they're going to do things are probably going to change. More importantly 'don't need' isn't really an argument here. You also don't need wallrunning or powers. Thing is, they make things more fun.

[UkyoSonoda]

My weapons arent stacked with multishot or puncture mods. An AoE kill everything skill isn't a necessity when swarmed. You have so many movement options available to get out of a swarm of enemies that outside extreme circumstances getting out of a swarm of enemies should be fairly easy.

Most cases enemies are clumped in a room near whatever entrance they entered from making that AoE frame skill mostly hit a small clustered area in the room with the ability to hit that 1-2 other enemies that immediately ran to corners or far boxes for cover. Meaning for the most part that grenade is going to on average hit the same number of enemies as that AoE skill barring stacks of power range mods or running a mission like Xini.

Some frames have 1-2 similar skills because they fit that frame's theme or niche. The suggestions for other types of grenades you gave either take another skill from an existing frame, (bubble/snow globe) or don't add much if anything to the utility of the frame. Freeze is quite easy to aim. It's only really useful against heavy targets like ancients and heavy grineers. The fodder die too fast to really need being frozen.

Explosions may be fun to use. However in the case of warframe it's best left as a niche for a new heavy frame or a heavy primary weapon with a horrendously low fire rate, long reload time, and extremely low ammo capacity.