Making Stamina Useful By Improving The Mechanics That Use It

[Gekker]

I am not sure if I get the Fatigue part. Running out of stammina does the excat same thing to me as the fatigue system is meant to do. It prevents me from doing anything that consumes stamina. Because I don't have any stamina left.

 

Please point me out if someone else was already confused by that or explain what I am not getting here :)

 

 

 

Anyways.

 

I agree that stamina right now has no purpose and I totally dislike this mechanic as it is right now. We all know that DE wants to improve it but I believe the whole logic behind it is faulty.

 

I mean, it seems to me DE is trying to utilize this mechanic in a way that it slows us players down so we can play the game in a way it is meant to be palyed.

But doing that (preventing the player from running around killing enemies and doing wallruns to move around the tile with style) we are losing alot what makes this game so much fun in the first place and the space ninja feeling is completely destroyed for me.

 

There is nothing worse than jumping against a wall in order to run it up just to get screwed over by the depleted stamina status. It happens all the time and I was confused for a long time.

I jused to believe that the game was buggy as hell and that wall running just didn't work as intended. But when I found out that it was intended that way I was shocked! Disappointed to say at least.

 

I mean the game tells me "go there and do it with style!" and when I run I get punished for even trying to have enjoy the fast paced gameplay.

Some tiles even require me to perform wallruns. And since I am always trying to run (because who wants to walk when you can run!) I am always out of stamina and as soon as I get to a wall the game is asking me to WAIT! For my stamina to regenerate!

So I am just standing there like a lazy bum ("... No, Lotus... *huff, huff* ... I... am.... TIERED!!!....") and totally feeling like a space sloth in a fancy suit :(

(freaking picture it!!!)

 

 

So if you are implying that the fatigue system should only prevent me from doing blocking maneuvers, I am totally ok with that!

Its ok that this game depletes stamina when I run and perform wall runs but its not OK that it prevents me from doing so when I run out of it!

So yeah, to sum this up:

 

Suggestion:

Only Running and Wallrunning deplete Stamina but you should still be able to run around like before and perform wallruns when your stamina bar is depleted.

But! As soon you run out of stamina you enter the fatigue state. In fatigue state you are unable to use blocking and/ or are much more vulnerable to stuns and/ or need more time to recover from stuns.

You leave fatigue status as soon your gain Stamina (or maybe have gained 25%/50%/100% stamina). DE can experiment with that and maybe throw some more mods in the mod pool that alter the numbers (I don't ask for it but since DE loves throwing out mods I am ok with it).

 

PS: The blocking mechanism still needs some improvements anyways (we don't need mods that improve blocking since we can't use them anyways since we don't have any spare mod slots left since... you know where this is heading :P).

[LeoAtKnight]

I am not sure if I get the Fatigue part. Running out of stammina does the excat same thing to me as the fatigue system is meant to do. It prevents me from doing anything that consumes stamina. Because I don't have any stamina left.

 

Please point me out if someone else was already confused by that or explain what I am not getting here :)

Oh don't worry I know I'm not the best at explaining things. This post was revised a lot, and even I can understand where some things feel unclear.

Fatigue System

What I'm implying with "Fatigue" is that excess stamina is converted into a negative number. Using the example I had before, lets say your stamina is currently at 100. When you dodge, which consumes 200 stamina, you will then have -100 (negative 100) stamina. You are unable to use stamina-consuming actions while having negative stamina. This prevents excessive spam of the blocking and dodging systems I have written about here, unlike our current system.

Our Current System

What we currently use is something odd. Lets use my old example yet again. You have 100 stamina, and then you dodge which uses 200 stamina. With our current system there is no negative, so you simply have 0 stamina.

Now let's change it up a bit. Say you have 1 stamina, and use dodge, which uses 200. You now have 0 stamina.

You see the problem? You don't need to wait much time before executing a stamina-consuming action; you only need ONE point of stamina to use any action currently.

I honestly shouldn't even be on these forums, considering I still have to make-up homework, but meh. I will revise this thread on Monday, where I will have the time to sift through the whole thing and figure out what changes I want to it. I am starting to believe that sprinting and wall-running should actually cost LESS than what I had previously written, but I'll sit on the thought some more. The reason I want these two mechanics to consume stamina however is so that people do NOT want to hit that stamina limit where they will go into fatigue state. If you can sprint with absolutely no penalty then people will block a ludicrous amount of damage then just run away like the road runner. Imagine how absurd it would be to fight an infinite sprinting Volt using speed? Or even just SEEING that for that matter.

Also, for future posts regarding melee and how it consumes stamina (No longer replying to you here Gekker ;) ),

that is not the point of this thread. I will cover melee in another thread in the future, but just so that we're all clear I hate the fact that it consumes stamina. I feel it should consume the smallest amount, just so that using melee activates the delay and prevents us from regenerating stamina while using it. There could potentially be a mod, perhaps a new Corrupted Mod, that gives a damage boost at the cost of using stamina. I think that would be fair.

[Methanoid]

your idea of negative stamina, couldnt it just be the normal stamina system but it allows negative value or a red/green zone, green being our current normal but if you dip into red then your stamina recharge gets heavily crippled until back in the green.

 

red zone being 1/5 the size of the green or something like that.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Methanoid

[Noabettiet]

These are fantastic views on blocking and overall stamina. Really would want to see them implemented exactly as they are, though i feel that most of the time DE implements a change with a double downside and nearly invisible good side.

 

As in they would be afraid of it being "too good", which is understandable. And this is exactly why i like this idea, because the OP didn't made them TOO GOOD or BAD, just plain perfect.

[RealityMachina]

Blocking doesn't give enough damage reduction, and consumes stamina in an awkward way. Damage mitigation should be much higher, and blocking should NOT CONSUME STAMINA OVER TIME, but rather stop stamina from regenerating and let it be chunked every time you successfully block an attack.

Why?

 

Not even Dark Souls does that!

Edited October 12, 2013 by RealityMachina

[Gekker]

Oh don't worry I know I'm not the best at explaining things. This post was revised a lot, and even I can understand where some things feel unclear.

Fatigue System

What I'm implying with "Fatigue" is that excess stamina is converted into a negative number. Using the example I had before, lets say your stamina is currently at 100. When you dodge, which consumes 200 stamina, you will then have -100 (negative 100) stamina. You are unable to use stamina-consuming actions while having negative stamina. This prevents excessive spam of the blocking and dodging systems I have written about here, unlike our current system.

Our Current System

What we currently use is something odd. Lets use my old example yet again. You have 100 stamina, and then you dodge which uses 200 stamina. With our current system there is no negative, so you simply have 0 stamina.

Now let's change it up a bit. Say you have 1 stamina, and use dodge, which uses 200. You now have 0 stamina.

You see the problem? You don't need to wait much time before executing a stamina-consuming action; you only need ONE point of stamina to use any action currently.

I honestly shouldn't even be on these forums, considering I still have to make-up homework, but meh. I will revise this thread on Monday, where I will have the time to sift through the whole thing and figure out what changes I want to it. I am starting to believe that sprinting and wall-running should actually cost LESS than what I had previously written, but I'll sit on the thought some more. The reason I want these two mechanics to consume stamina however is so that people do NOT want to hit that stamina limit where they will go into fatigue state. If you can sprint with absolutely no penalty then people will block a ludicrous amount of damage then just run away like the road runner. Imagine how absurd it would be to fight an infinite sprinting Volt using speed? Or even just SEEING that for that matter.

Also, for future posts regarding melee and how it consumes stamina (No longer replying to you here Gekker ;) ),

that is not the point of this thread. I will cover melee in another thread in the future, but just so that we're all clear I hate the fact that it consumes stamina. I feel it should consume the smallest amount, just so that using melee activates the delay and prevents us from regenerating stamina while using it. There could potentially be a mod, perhaps a new Corrupted Mod, that gives a damage boost at the cost of using stamina. I think that would be fair.

Now I understood. It is a rather small change but it does make sense.

 

I honestly never had an issue with stamina and melee, though.

 

I only have issues with stamina and moveability so far.

But I guess thats where we kinda disagree. Because I think that stamina should not be a requirement to sprint and perfrom wallruns. I think stamina could be a much better mechanic as I have stated above.

 

With or without your Fatigue suggestion.

[Noabettiet]

Why?

 

Not even Dark Souls does that!

It doesn't? i was in impression it did actuality.

[LeoAtKnight]

Why?

 

Not even Dark Souls does that!

Dark Souls significantly slows stamina regeneration while blocking, sure, but it slows regeneration so much to the point it isn't even worth keeping block up unless stamina is near-full at least.

In Dark Souls when your stamina is drained completely from an attack you block you become completely immobile for a pretty significant period of time, leaving you an open target easy to kill. For arguments sake, the time you are left immobile is more than enough to walk around you and backstab you, which in many cases mid and end-game is a one-hit-kill.

In my suggestion you are completely mobile, even when your block is "broken", leaving you with far more mobility than many other games with a block function. Additionally, if you COULD regenerate stamina while blocking this means you could leave your block up at all times with no penalty. I could agree with slower stamina regeneration during block, but we'll leave it up to DE to decide which they would like.

[Methanoid]

variety is awesome in many things, so us being able to do more than run and gun is also a good thing, some may use it and like it, some wont, but hey theres your variety to keep everyone happier.

 

If the block/stamina gets a good enough overhaul it could even allow a newer warframe to maybe be given a better niche role in that area than others, maybe by its 1 of its powers enhancing the block/stamina mechanics, which could make an interesting warframe suited to survival/defense.

 

Useful change for everyone but potentially a core mechanic for a new warframe?

[Vigilance]

More meaningful use of the stamina system will definitely add more depth to the game. If only they could expand on melee viability more than we'll have something really beautiful going.

[WhiteSteel]

Excelent post! I fully support this.