The Disruption change in Arbitration is a slap in the face

[PrismaCat]

Apologies for the sensationalist title, but this seriously needs to be addressed - or at least acknowledged by DE.

I adore warframe, a lot. so realize that it takes something particuarly frustrating to get me to make a post like this. endo has been a bit of a mess since it's addition, old fusion core and duplicate combining were not much better but at least those pushed players into some variety of play, which was nice. as it stands right now farming for endo is an absolute mess. outside of vodyanoi you have no real way to get any, i know people who have been playing for months with out a single maxed rank10 mod. arbitrations were clearly designed to address this but are handled in such a nonsensible way that both new players and veterans have zero interest in them. survivals and defenses, interceptions give almost no endo, you're better off doing bounties and such, thus making them irrelavent, given how challenging they are. Excavations are absolutely broken and give 50k endo an hour or more when done correctly. disruption hit a nice middleground of 20-25k an hour, which is STILL worse than vodyanoi.

whats the logic to the disruption change? if the rewards are "too fast" at 5 minutes per.. then why the hell are you not touching excavations, which can be done in 2.5 minutes. excavation arbs give 50k endo an hour or more, and you're not touching those? but god forbid 5 minutes per disruption arbs be allowed, is it because disruption is fun? < this is my biggest issue, unlike excavations which are stupid and require you basically to sit afk on an excavator and kill nothing, or vodyanoi that require you to sit afk shooting with a nekros, disruptions are one of the most fun, and active game modes in the entirety of warframe. you have to make use of your abilities and mobility to hunt down targets in a very hectic enviorment - this is peak warframe. it's already bad that you removed duplicate key drops though, because that "clutter" as you so easily handwaved, was a huge part in allowing players to scale up the mode to their desired speed and challenge, having multiple keys juggled meant you can optimize and push the mode further, adding more challenge, and more reward. again, peak warframe. how can you push the challenges and a reward of survival, or defense, or interception? You can't. so removing that clutter has ALREADY "nerfed" disruption pretty hard. 

and if your goal is to nerf endo gains, why has nekros vodyanoi been a thing since 2016? it's just as fast as disruptions were before the nerf.. post nerf we're lucky to see 10k an hour.

So... you nerf a 23k an hour method (5 minute arbs, disruption) when a 30k an hour (which, requires nothing but a nekros and slash weapon, is not engaging, and has been in the game for FIVE YEARS UNTOUCHED.) and a 50k an hour method exists and has for over a year with out you touching it.

so i again ask, WHY? disruption arbitration are not better than other methods, not even close. i do it because it's actually fun.. but if you make it 8 towers, its so bad i might as well never do it ever again.

like i get that you want to balance around gains and make the game more centralized and balanced, but if that's the case, then why do you willingly change things in such a way that you know no one is ever going to ever want to do the content you spent a lot of time and money making? arbitrations are absolutely horrible, except excavations which are so astronomically over-rewarding you can max a primed mod in less than 40 minutes.., and disruption is barely better than vodyanoi nekros arena farming, but halving the rewards, you're making it so bad that it's worse than cetus bounties for it's only meaningful reward. therefore no one will play it

Disruption giving 20k an hour is "viable" but it's still not very good. with this nerf its going to be at most 12000 an hour, which when you are getting 1200-1350 endo a vodyanoi in 3 minutes, means you can get the same in 30. Serously. can we nerf that crap before saying "oh look at this mode that requires EVERY SINGLE STAR CHART NODE UNLOCKED and a warframe/weapon loadout capable of killing level 500-750 mobs? a stupid mission that requires NOTHING MORE THAN A NEKROS gives more than an arb in rewards by a factor of 2.

at this point i'll pay money to get a cohesive answer to justify that insanity from DE. next moves on you, @de - riddle me this and ill buy 100$ in plat.

so this is why im so frustrated, you claim its too rewarding yet leave unfun S#&amp;&#036; untouched for YEARS, you claim its to bring it inline with other endless modes which are absolutely poorly designed from the get go.

someone sugggested normalizing them to an intended time rate, aka 7 waves defense, 8 min survival, etc. thats not a bad idea but would require testing. limitng simultanious excavators to 2, will be one solution, for instance, but even then you still are looking at 4 minute rounds. i've repeated myself multiple times here and i apologize, i need to restate though that im not intersted in, or complaining for, rewards, i am not some whiner complaining that her endo gain was nerfed, far from it, i want vodyanoi and arb exca nerfed, personally. but what i want more than that is warframe to actually feel fun to play again. disruption is the most fun peice of content i've experienced in years, why can't you guys realize that its a bad idea to push players away from what they find enjoyable?

Edited September 6, 2019 by PrismaCat

[Drachnyn]

DE seems deadset on ruining every kind of reward connected to disruption. Both normal disruptions and arby disruptions were gutted this patch.

[PrismaCat]

it makes no sense, considering normal disruptions don't even have a single reward anyone could care about, in terms of optimizing gameplay, which given human nature, we tend to optimize things to the detriment of fun, so as a developer you need to make the optimal way to play something enjoyable. the credits arb is worse than index, lua lens is nice but kind of a outlier, the relic rewards in other arbs is still worse than xini or other locations, so disruption isn't a thing players will seek out, no matter how fun it is. now that i have gauss + weapons, i as a player will have no reason to spend my time doing disruptions. arbitration WAS the exception to that, but now it isn't. Great, all of the time spent developing that content kind of was wasted.

What else got nerfed?

Edited September 6, 2019 by PrismaCat

[Zekkii]

I was under the same impression as you, but this is not the case. You still get rewards after every 4 conduits, you just need to complete 8 to extract.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Zekkii

[PrismaCat]

31 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

I was under the same impression as you, but this is not the case. You still get rewards after every 4 conduits, you just need to complete 8 to extract.

This is a bug, it's already confirmed by Pablo that it will be hotfixed to 8 conduits. combine that with the extra 30-60 seconds it takes per round from not being able to juggle keys, you'lre looking at 9-11 minutes on average per reward. That's significantly worse than most other arbitrations.

Edited September 6, 2019 by PrismaCat

[_Kross_]

I think they're confusing difficulty with length, requiring more of my time to complete doesn't make it more difficult. Arbitration has always seemed heavily skewed towards longer mission times, when they were supposed to be scaled to more endgame content for unique rewards.

Most people run Arbitration for Endo however and these Nerfs are definitely not taking that into account. It'd be nice if someone at DE sat down and rationalized with us how much time they're expecting us to put into a game to get enough Endo to max a single mod. If they truly think there game is scaled to 3-5 hours at absolute maximum gear and optimization, then maybe its time we had a talk about how the contents replay-ability falls off after the first hour.

The system was dumb to begin with, should have just made Vitus essence stuff twice as expensive and lowered the drop rates in order to maintain a fulfilling reward loop. At least then it might be easier for them to identify and fix balance issues.

[Zelequin]

I agree that nerfing disruptions is a bad idea. I actually really enjoy the disruption mode, even more so since it was placed in the arbitrations rotation, but I'm gonna be doing it a lot less if it gets nerfed into oblivion like this.

Adding disruption to arbitrations was the absolute best thing that could have been done to get people to play them. And after all the work that's been put into them, isn't this what's desired? Nerfing it will see players going back to farming Vodyanoi for hours on end, and forming ridiculous meta groups to farm excavation arbitrations that most people, especially new players, won't be able to enjoy, because that's currently the only other method of getting reasonable amounts of endo.

Excavation and Disruption should be left alone, and if anything, the other modes should be buffed to bring them into line with other reasonable sources of endo farming.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Zelequin
grammar

[PrismaCat]

not sure if im 100% keen on buffing everything, i just want them normalized, if DE thinks we should get less endo for arbs or something, i can live with that, but can we not be forced to do endless hours of vodyanoi for another 5 years? that'd be great. im pretty sure that tileset is burned into my retinas

Edited September 6, 2019 by PrismaCat