Melee Risk Vs Reward

[gell]

ITT people who don't know how to use melee effectively. It doesn't have the super high DPS of the top weapons, but many consider those the top tier and some consider them broken. 

 

As we know, while there have been some advances with the newer weapons, charged melee does way more damage than single hits over time. DPS is hard to gauge naturally, but DPM (damage per minute) is easier when  you see how many more enemies die from the charges.

 

I use the guns plenty, but whenever possible, I use melee, and it's still extremely effective. I don't like weapons like the Orthos, that, while having the best reach and multihit, lacks the extremely important large AoE knockdown, and also the much better stun invuln time of weapons like the gram (highly important if you are concerned about getting stunned or knocked down, granted it doesn't protect against a couple types of knockdown, but most).

 

Some may use melee only to conserve on ammo, but I believe there are benefits to melee. This doesn't mean melee needs to have comparable damage to the top tier guns, but as long as they have their uses, they're still viable. Charged melee is great burst damage, and can hit multiple enemies at once. If you can't take advantage of this with CC or knockdown, then you're not using melee to its potential. I think melee is not a niche, and I use it fine vs level 100+ guys. It's not quick as killing low level enemies, but then again nothing is. And I didn't even mention mods.

[Archistopheles]

Thank you for correctly articulating what I tried to say in one sentence, gell.

[ApeMummy]

I use my orthos prime to kill large concentrations of enemies quicker than my ranged weps especially on infested defense.

I dunno I would have thought melee naturally has a its situational uses and obviously will be used less than primaries, the game would be pretty imbalanced of melee weps were more powerful in every situation than primary weps.

And it's worth noting that you can't actually stop enemies getting close to you sometimes.

Edited September 26, 2013 by ApeMummy

[Mainabi]

I use my orthos prime to kill large concentrations of enemies quicker than my ranged weps especially on infested defense.

I dunno I would have thought melee naturally has a its situational uses and obviously will be used less than primaries, the game would be pretty imbalanced of melee weps were more powerful in every situation than primary weps.

And it's worth noting that you can't actually stop enemies getting close to you sometimes.

the orhos prime should do around 1800dps but it deals serrated blade dmg on charge: so it will deal around 5400 dmg which is tad more than the boltor, since you can hit multille enemies in a big area, orthos prime does what it should do all charge attacks should buffed around the orthos dmg and utility, but regular melee is simply weak

[Hollow_Knight]

Weeeeeell. You can. But it is restricted to either Rhino, Loki or Ash since they can easily bypass all the anti-fun, anti-melee nonsense. Any other Warframe and you'd have to make massive sacrifices to be able to do the same.

 

I came to much the same conclusion, I've been using excalibur since I started playing and I don't think I've ever really liked another Warframe quite as much.  His abilities, his description, hell even his name point to the fact that he'd be a good melee frame and he just... isn't.

 

Some frames are always going to be more viable than others, but I WOULD like to see it be at least possible on all the frames.

[Mainabi]

I came to much the same conclusion, I've been using excalibur since I started playing and I don't think I've ever really liked another Warframe quite as much.  His abilities, his description, hell even his name point to the fact that he'd be a good melee frame and he just... isn't.

 

Some frames are always going to be more viable than others, but I WOULD like to see it be at least possible on all the frames.

just hope that they release the greatsword with a new melee system :3

[Hollow_Knight]

just hope that they release the greatsword with a new melee system :3

 

i doubt it, but we can ever hope.

[Archistopheles]

just hope that they release the greatsword with a new melee system :3

 

 

i doubt it, but we can ever hope.

 

Doesn't matter if they do or don't. That thing is going to be more popular than the Dakra.

[EtheralDeath]

Depends on the definition of the word melee.

 

 

 

definition/ Melee- a hand to hand fight among several people. - merriam webster dictionary.

pretty obvious you're supposed to have it in your hand when you hit them with it

Edited September 27, 2013 by EtheralDeath

[Lers]

I can agree that melee could use some dps buff. However i'm not sure it should be equal to the possibilities of a ranged weapon. Knife to a gun fight and all that. Only if you mod your frame very specifically for the task? Maybe. Or if you use one of the... melee centric frames (Ash, Loki and maybe Rhino).

Edited September 27, 2013 by Lers

[r3dzer0]

So in regards to the op, i agree there are too many downsides to melee as there are to ranged.  to detractors for melee remaining the same- I have a fairly unmodded braton that can take down an ancient in around 3/4 of a clip at lvl 50 within 5-6 seconds.  my dual ethers that are modded to hell and back with every melee mod i can get on an ash with smoke screen and even with charged melee attacks it still takes much longer than 5-6 seconds and i run the risk of getting slapped by a disruptor and losing all my energy and shields.  If i've chosen to get in their face, there should  be a reward damage wise for playing upclose.  as it stands there is absolutely not a single one.  In fact as defense goes on your ability to effectively take down lower armored foes goes out the window.  even with serrated damage vs charges they laugh in your face as someone with their ogris takes em all down in a few shots.

 

Melee weapons in general need about 100% buff to be viable.  Obviously though this screws up lower level play so they need to revamp the whole system to reward the melee'ers for their daring tenacity in using a mode that puts them right in the midst of battle.

[Archistopheles]

definition/ Melee- a hand to hand fight among several people. - merriam webster dictionary.

pretty obvious you're supposed to have it in your hand when you hit them with it

 

The other definition was cleverly omitted to prove your point. However, we both know there is more than one definition.

[Nagisawa]

Weeeeeell. You can. But it is restricted to either Rhino, Loki or Ash since they can easily bypass all the anti-fun, anti-melee nonsense. Any other Warframe and you'd have to make massive sacrifices to be able to do the same.

Which is kind of sad to me, because I chose the Excalibur because it supposedly the 'best' at Melee.

[Guest]

Which is kind of sad to me, because I chose the Excalibur because it supposedly the 'best' at Melee.

While I just like excal for his body

 

I agree

Edited September 27, 2013 by Guest

[Mainabi]

so they've released the galatine, super high charge dmg! do like (I don't like charge play but now it looks like melee gets some attention now)

[Saenol]

Did I miss anything?

 

Melee is generally silent and expends no ammo.

 

Or am I just terrible at melee?

 

 

Personally, I just think people's expectations of melee are too high. It has far more utility than many give it credit, but most of those hoping to go exclusive melee are hoping for too much.

 

Melee is a highly useful supplement to gun play, not a substitute for it.

 

There are very fundamental and universal reasons why it's safer to be further from what is trying to harm you, and why being able to launch attacks from that distance is advantageous. Tamper with these too much, and you'll have something unrecognizable.

[Acos]

I play primarily melee; I think that if half of your list is knockdown then you simply need to get better at avoiding knockdown. Generally you have two types; the orange moa, and then everyone else. The orange moa is pretty predictable, flimsy, and easy to take care of. Don't let him sneak up on you, and always expect him to be homing in on you during Corpus Missions. Enemies which use KD as soon as you get near you will want to first glide past, and then retaliate with a flying dragon kick to the back of their head to knock THEM down. 

If all else fails there are mods a'plenty that will greatly alleviate KD which, by the way, is kind of the only form of Crowd Control enemies have in this game. Aside from like, bullets. 

Finally, there's a reason you have three weapons and not only one. If melee was effective all the time we'd just have another topic talking about how guns are useless. And no, talking about how Acrid and Ogris are overpowered doesn't count. Those weapons are overpowered vs other guns, nevermind melee. Level 100+ enemies don't count either as their scaling is absolutely stupid and likely to be corrected soon. 

[Mewtiger]

Guys! Guys!

 

What if block could parry knockdowns?

 

What if there were different animation sets for noble/agile melee weapons? Or an aoe-360 attack with crouch+charge melee? Or an aerial charge attack with either jump+charge(airstall) melee OR chargemelee+jump? Or melee was 5x faster in general, normal hits homed, there was a launch button with possible aerial strike+charge aerial sort of combos, and blocking charged an aoe/single target melee finisher or autodeflected bullets or opened up melee attackers to a finisher? Also wallrun charge attack too.

 

Point is... no you don't exactly suck at melee. It has some problems right now, even though with some grace/effort/builds you can make use of the current system to a decent degree.

 

PS Galatine is confirmed for fun.

[ASH_PRIME]

Modded up Galatine just destroyed that comparison 'chart'!

 

[Mainabi]

Modded up Galatine just destroyed that comparison 'chart'!

yeah modded galatine vs an unmodded weapon

 

galatine is still weak as S#&$, not only it takes around 1.7s charge+animation to deal 400dmg while you're charging you need to be in front of enemies, giving yourself to freehits, meanwhile I can still sit on a braton prime at lvl 100 far away and kill any enemy faster

[Acos]

yeah modded galatine vs an unmodded weapon

 

galatine is still weak as S#&$, not only it takes around 1.7s charge+animation to deal 400dmg while you're charging you need to be in front of enemies, giving yourself to freehits, meanwhile I can still sit on a braton prime at lvl 100 far away and kill any enemy faster

You don't charge a weapon in front of an enemy, you charge a weapon as you are running up to them. Preferably ambushing them from a cover spot. If you are just running straight into hail of bullets then of course you are going to have difficulties in melee. You can't get away with that using a gun either. 

[Mainabi]

You don't charge a weapon in front of an enemy, you charge a weapon as you are running up to them. Preferably ambushing them from a cover spot. If you are just running straight into hail of bullets then of course you are going to have difficulties in melee. You can't get away with that using a gun either. 

even if you cover yourself you had to be close to them already and even if you don't charge in front of them you're in the open unlike with guns, you don't have to fear from stagger knockdowns and focus fire

[R3leaZ]

Melee is generally silent and expends no ammo.

 

 

 

Personally, I just think people's expectations of melee are too high. It has far more utility than many give it credit, but most of those hoping to go exclusive melee are hoping for too much.

 

Melee is a highly useful supplement to gun play, not a substitute for it.

 

There are very fundamental and universal reasons why it's safer to be further from what is trying to harm you, and why being able to launch attacks from that distance is advantageous. Tamper with these too much, and you'll have something unrecognizable.

 

This. Melee isn't meant to be as effective as gunplay.

 

"Melee is a highly useful supplement to gun play, not a substitute for it." This very much. Sure you can go full melee but that is your choice. You can still be quite effective with it but you risk damaging yourself by being in the open like that. The risk is put there since melee can never run out, it's silent and it often has good knockdowns or stagger. It's a great alternative to gunplay when your weapon runs out of ammo completely or if your weapon has a terrible reload time.

 

Currently weapons and Warframes don't really scale correctly anymore due to the levelcap of enemies having been increased by a lot. Thus Warframes are a lot more fragile and weapons are less effective (Especially bullet type weapons). This is the problem of people who don't want any nerfs at all, only buffs. DE ends up buffing the enemies instead causing a universal nerf. Most weapons, Warframes and mods were made for the original enemy levelcap but that had been changed making them far less effective thus in need of a buff ONCE AGAIN. Just nerf it already to prevent universal nerfs like buffing enemies, sheesh.

[Mainabi]

 

This. Melee isn't meant to be as effective as gunplay.

 

"Melee is a highly useful supplement to gun play, not a substitute for it." This very much. Sure you can go full melee but that is your choice. You can still be quite effective with it but you risk damaging yourself by being in the open like that. The risk is put there since melee can never run out, it's silent and it often has good knockdowns or stagger. It's a great alternative to gunplay when your weapon runs out of ammo completely or if your weapon has a terrible reload time.

 

Currently weapons and Warframes don't really scale correctly anymore due to the levelcap of enemies having been increased by a lot. Thus Warframes are a lot more fragile and weapons are less effective (Especially bullet type weapons). This is the problem of people who don't want any nerfs at all, only buffs. DE ends up buffing the enemies instead causing a universal nerf. Most weapons, Warframes and mods were made for the original enemy levelcap but that had been changed making them far less effective thus in need of a buff ONCE AGAIN. Just nerf it already to prevent universal nerfs like buffing enemies, sheesh.

ogris is silent, bows and lanka are silent, torid is silent

acrid is silent, thanks to their extreme ammo efficiency you don't run out of ammo, if necessary grab 1 box MAX per run and you won't have any problems if you even have ammo mutation mod you never run out of ammo, not even high lvl defense, and who cares about few percent chance of stagger if the target is dead in less than 1sec? 

 

it's not a great alternative if you talk about efficiency. and an efficient person won't pick up twin vipers on high end content

[R3leaZ]

ogris is silent, bows and lanka are silent, torid is silent

acrid is silent, thanks to their extreme ammo efficiency you don't run out of ammo, if necessary grab 1 box MAX per run and you won't have any problems if you even have ammo mutation mod you never run out of ammo, not even high lvl defense, and who cares about few percent chance of stagger if the target is dead in less than 1sec? 

 

it's not a great alternative if you talk about efficiency. and an efficient person won't pick up twin vipers on high end content

 

Ogris being silent is bs. That should not be the case. DE should chance that. Bows completely lack DPS. Lanka being silent is strange, how is a railgun silent? It should only be at massive range and even then you would probably still here it. Torid same reason as Ogris, it's bs. Acrid makes more sense but that gun is OP rofl.

 

Currently max ammo is in a very basic state and Im pretty sure they are going to change that in the future making them more weapon dependent.

 

"An efficient person won't pick Twin Vipers on high end content." It's the same with melee. It's not meant to be as efficient vs other weapons, the problem being vulnerable to tons of damage. The main reason is because Warframes don't scale very well to current buffed enemies making melee extremely risky at high level content.