The Soma Is Ridiculously Op.

[Enomilli]

And i'm sorta happy that it doesn't .... the only thing i can argee on this topic is that it needs a higher rank reg and maybe some more recoil to make the nerf kids happy.

It needs more of a spread. and more recoil. It does not need to snipe like a Latron and DPS like a crit built Gorgon.

[zzang]

 

It needs more of a spread. and more recoil. It does not need to snipe like a Latron and DPS like a crit built Gorgon.

 

You already opened a flamer threat about the same topic here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117425-de-why-is-the-soma-a-perfect-weapon/

why bother to spam here aswell?

 

here is a good read for you ( its the only sticky in this subforum btw) you should really give it a read before opening the next nerf spam threat

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53259-dont-even-nerf-thread-till-you-own-it-please-give-it-a-read/

Edited October 8, 2013 by zzang

[Mimibomber]

 

It needs more of a spread. and more recoil. It does not need to snipe like a Latron and DPS like a crit built Gorgon.

 

How much of a spread are we talking about here ... not shotgun range i hope. and when did a gorgon have good crits ?!

Edited October 8, 2013 by Mimibomber

[Aeriax]

Are you fighting level 20-30 things, or level 60-70 things?

Because bullet damage stops being useful pretty quickly at those stages.

[Curzyfish]

You already opened a flamer threat about the same topic here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117425-de-why-is-the-soma-a-perfect-weapon/

why bother to spam here aswell?

 

here is a good read for you ( its the only sticky in this subforum btw) you should really give it a read before opening the next nerf spam threat

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53259-dont-even-nerf-thread-till-you-own-it-please-give-it-a-read/

 

That post has absolutely no bearing here.  You are assuming he does not own one / does not have one maxed or forma'd.  Given how long ystella has been around here I'm quite sure it's safe to say he had one day 1 / 2 of it being out.

 

People need to learn when that sticky is actually relevant instead of just throwing it out when someone thinks a weapon is unbalanced.

 

 

Are you fighting level 20-30 things, or level 60-70 things?

Because bullet damage stops being useful pretty quickly at those stages.

 

Soma does more AP only dps than flux rifle does base dps + AP dps.  I'm not trying to say nerf it to the ground, but people need to learn the facts before they post.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Curzyfish

[zzang]

That post has absolutely no bearing here.  You are assuming he does not own one / does not have one maxed or forma'd.  Given how long ystella has been around here I'm quite sure it's safe to say he had one day 1 / 2 of it being out.

 

People need to learn when that sticky is actually relevant instead of just throwing it out when someone thinks a weapon is unbalanced.

 

actually you also should give the thread a read aswell since the post is not only about not having a weapon

 

but also goes to people with their fancy nerf ideas. or impressions /own opinions whats op.

 

to answer in your style people should learn to read first before quoting others and tell them whats relevant and what not

Edited October 8, 2013 by zzang

[Curzyfish]

actually you also should give the thread a read aswell since the post is not only about not having a weapon

 

but also goes to people with their fancy nerf ideas. or impressions /own opinions whats op.

 

to answer in your style people should learn to read first before quoting others and tell them whats relevant and what not

 

That very thread says that he's not saying never nerf.  You don't throw it out just because someone says a weapon is too strong.  That thread is not the answer to this argument.

[zzang]

That very thread says that he's not saying never nerf.  You don't throw it out just because someone says a weapon is too strong.  That thread is not the answer to this argument.

with the difference that one of the devs said in livechat that soma is if I remember the wording correct "perfectly made".

 

so i think in this case it IS the argument.

[bejuizb]

Power creep is becoming quite a dominant player in this game

[Curzyfish]

with the difference that one of the devs said in livechat that soma is if I remember the wording correct "perfectly made".

 

so i think in this case it IS the argument.

 

No, those are 2 very different things.  Scott has said he does not want to nerf the gun.  That I know, and anyone who has seen that stream will know.  That is completely different from the weapon being too strong, or at the very least, completely out of it's mastery rank.

 

Anyways, the biggest problem with the game right now, is that Scott wants tiers, but there is absolutely no real tiering in place.  Weapons are all over the place with different mastery ranks, and hopefully that will all be at least somewhat more sorted out after the armor update.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Curzyfish

[zzang]

No, those are 2 very different things.  Scott has said he does not want to nerf the gun.  That I know, and anyone who has seen that stream will know.  That is completely different from the weapon being too strong, or at the very least, completely out of it's mastery rank.

 

Anyways, the biggest problem with the game right now, is that Scott wants tiers, but there is absolutely no real tiering in place.  Weapons are all over the place with different mastery ranks, and hopefully that will all be at least somewhat more sorted out after the armor update.

so your opinion is opposite to those of the Developers mhhh...

 

i wonder who is right?

 

as i enjoy the decision to implement tier system and find it a good thing i only can support DE.

Edited October 8, 2013 by zzang

[notionphil]

Unless they have done a mastery rank change before in the past (I am relatively new so I don't know), changing that is going to be way more complicated than a crit rate change like on the Strun.

 

For the strun you just change the crit rate and your done.

 

For a mastery rank change you need to make sure the system knows how to handle:

 

1) people who have it equipped but no longer meet the requirements

2) people that have it in their inventory but no longer meet the requirements

3) People who have bought the blue print but not crafted it yet and no longer meet the requirements

4) people who have built it but not claimed it from the foundry and no longer meet the requirements.

 

These also tie into weird edge cases.  Example:  The change it and system decides that if you don't meet the requirement and its in your inventory, you can't equip it.  I have it slotted with my only split chamber, and it isn't max rank yet.  The Soma is at full mod capacity.  I put the split chamber in the Braton prime I am now using.  It has room so I want to level the split chamber.  I get the error saying I can't level it because it would violate the Soma's capacity, but I can't equip the Soma to remove it.  So now I need to sell the soma and recraft/level it when I hit the mastery rank?  Might not be a huge deal, but it is the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.

 

You need to decide how it will behave for each of those cases, and make sure the system does that properly because those might be new cases they haven't had to deal with before.  Also, it sounded like on the Strun they knew what the crit was supposed to be (though that could be false :P), with this change they just said they want to increase the rank.  There is a pretty big difference between going form rank 3 to rank 5 and going form rank 3 to rank 8, so they really need to nail that down.

 

 

As for Armor 2.0, you really should just wait to complain about weapons until that hits, we have no idea how far the changes are spreading, and they might be changing weapon stats as well, so its really all in the air.  Since they mentioned possibly tying elemental procs effects to crits, I wouldn;t be surprised if they change the crit rate on all the weapons with less than 5% since they would proc so infrequently.  It could end up being minor changes or they could re-do the whole damage system from the ground up so why bother worrying before that hits?

Actually it's not half that complicated. You pick one case and stop the stream of new Somas into the hands of players. Mastery check isnt done at 4 points in a system unless that system is horribly inefficient.

You can't build soma unless you are rank X. Problem solved.

[Curzyfish]

so your opinion is opposite to those of the Developers mhhh...

 

i wonder who is right?

 

as i enjoy the decision to implement tier system and find it a good thing i only can support DE.

 

Ok after this I'm done.  Just because a developer (Scott in this case) wants the weapon to stay as it is, does not mean it is too strong.  Not only is it one of the games highest dps weapons (as i stated in a previous post its AP dps alone out does the base dps + AP dps of the flux rifle, which I'm pretty sure most people think is a good gun)  but it is accurate enough to head shot with from almost any range, and it has very little recoil.  Its only real "draw back" is the ramp up time, which is so short it may as well not be there, and is actually beneficial in the case of wanting to make those long range head shots.

 

At worst it is "op pls nerf" and at best it is way out of its mastery rank, and is a weapon that has been introduced a couple tiers too early.

[Curzyfish]

Ok after this I'm done.  Just because a developer (Scott in this case) wants the weapon to stay as it is, does not mean it is too strong.  Not only is it one of the games highest dps weapons (as i stated in a previous post its AP dps alone out does the base dps + AP dps of the flux rifle, which I'm pretty sure most people think is a good gun)  but it is accurate enough to head shot with from almost any range, and it has very little recoil.  Its only real "draw back" is the ramp up time, which is so short it may as well not be there, and is actually beneficial in the case of wanting to make those long range head shots.

 

At worst it is "op pls nerf" and at best it is way out of its mastery rank, and is a weapon that has been introduced a couple tiers too early.

 

I'd also like to clarify this.  What I mean here is that progression in this game is completely out of whack. There is such a large jump between this and the gorgon it's not even funny, and let's not even get the supra in to this.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Curzyfish

[zzang]

Ok after this I'm done.  Just because a developer (Scott in this case) wants the weapon to stay as it is, does not mean it is too strong.  Not only is it one of the games highest dps weapons (as i stated in a previous post its AP dps alone out does the base dps + AP dps of the flux rifle, which I'm pretty sure most people think is a good gun)  but it is accurate enough to head shot with from almost any range, and it has very little recoil.  Its only real "draw back" is the ramp up time, which is so short it may as well not be there, and is actually beneficial in the case of wanting to make those long range head shots.

 

At worst it is "op pls nerf" and at best it is way out of its mastery rank, and is a weapon that has been introduced a couple tiers too early.

or maybe you dont consider the fact that soma was designed as a top tier weapon and yet there are still plenty of new "OP" weapons to come

and probably some old weapons get reworked aswell with armor update 2.0 looking at the supra

 

i kind of agree that soma could use a even higher rank but it doesnt change the fact that its designer as a top tier weapon.

 

i cant wait to see the next heavy rifle maybe it will have less critical chance and damage but maybe 70 damage per bullet?

[Fire_Ashes]

You can do up to 300 damage per bullet!!!! Modded correctly. My vote, buff the exclusives and primes

[From_Orion]

why noone wait till the new armor settings are out and start then with crying?maybe the change is the solution

...just because we want to play NOW, not waiting till December till the new Armor2.0 comes out.

This gun is undeniably OP, no one can deny this, low price low rank, insane crits.

 

But I think (and I hope) it's more like an experiment for DE in order to show the reaction of the community with an disguised issue :

"Do we need powercreep or balance ?"

 

Now they know the answer...

[fatpig84]

Well one thing we should know is...

IF AP no longer gives damage as planned by DE and straight armor reduction or X% of damage ignores enemies armor.

Soma can no longer rely on heavy critting AP damage to deal damage, then suddenly it looks balanced.

 

But let's face it, Armor 2.0 will be a nett DPS loss but in return you make more guns viable, so I am not sure should we nerf anything else before it appears.

[Lachryphage]

 

It needs more of a spread. and more recoil. It does not need to snipe like a Latron and DPS like a crit built Gorgon.

 

I can shoot the 1 inch of exposed enemy sticking out from behind cover full auto at long range without even zooming. It makes my snipers cry themselves to sleep at night. I instantly stopped using all my other guns as soon as I got a soma. It's so good it makes everything else pointless.

 

 

Well one thing we should know is...

IF AP no longer gives damage as planned by DE and straight armor reduction or X% of damage ignores enemies armor.

Soma can no longer rely on heavy critting AP damage to deal damage, then suddenly it looks balanced.

 

But let's face it, Armor 2.0 will be a nett DPS loss but in return you make more guns viable, so I am not sure should we nerf anything else before it appears.

Nope, it'll still be OP. It still crits pretty close to always with an insane crit multiplier and it's still a 0 recoil full auto sniper rifle with a clip that I suspect might be a cleverly disguised http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bag_of_holding'>bag of holding.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Lachryphage

[Ozrik]

Soma is quite OP. I consider it to do OP because of how much ridiculously better it is that the Grakata.

 

The Soma has a base crit damage of 3.0x, while the Grakata has 2.0x.

 

The Soma has a base crit chance of 35%, while the Grakata gets less than half of that, at 15%. (This is the really ridiculous stat.)

 

The Soma has one higher base damage than the Grakata (10 vs. 9) and base damage is a very important factor in dps. 

 

The Soma has a larger magazine (100 rounds vs. 60), and almost the same reload speed (3.0 seconds vs. 2.4)

 

They seem to be about the same accuracy (Soma might be a bit better), but the Grakata has much higher recoil. 

 

The Grakata does win with Firerate though, maxing out at 20.0 with no wind-up, with Soma @ 15.0 including a short wind-up. 

 

So then in conclusion, it is a direct and very significant upgrade over Grakata in all area's except for fire-rate. I don't like this sort of things, and it's nowhere near DE's statement that they would like all loadouts to be viable. The Grakata is currently not viable as a competitor to the Soma in any fashion. The Soma wins in every comparison and to add insult to injury comes with two V polarities, which give it a higher base mod capacity. 

 

Now, don't take this as a rage about the Soma, or think that I'm butthurt about the Grakata. I'm really just disappointed with the current state of the Grakata and the Soma. I think they need to be much closer to each other in their stats, rather than one being a direct and massive upgrade. I'd rather each rifle had its own strengths. 

Grakata is like a SMG, Soma is like a Assault/battle rifle two different things.  Soma & Grakata are in two different weapon classes IMO. Also they said they were putting weapons into tiers, beginning, mid, end game..   Soma is end game, Grakata more like Mid game.

[edryuu]

i am getting tired of these situation saying that certain weapons are OP when they are not...if weapons don't require mods at all that OP...

ur just making a weapon and putting mods to make it OP then the right choice....er...but whatever...u guys say being OP is ur base opinion...just wait til the Armor 2.0 or the damage 2.0 or whatever comes out then that will change...so uh stop being opinionated about weapons being OP when its not....

 

P.S. i am not trying be mean here just stating the fact about...but it really no use any way u guys will just think its still OP...well whatever i am out this thread.

[taiiat]

use the sobek then. imo i feel its better modded right.

it IS better. because of accuracy and range. 

it's not as much Alpha damage, but it puts that power to the road a lot better. 

 

American Muscle spinning tires at the start line and a Rice rocket halfway to the finish already because it can grip the road. 

(disclaimer: i'm not actually saying either type of car is better or worse)

 

 

 

Yeah you got point there, on ancients dera sucks more than soma.

high armor enemies in general. i'll keep Dera forever, because it's very tactile and enjoyable, and it's fairly effective most of the time, but when enemies get up there in levels, it currently loses all ammunition efficiency.

 

 

 

why noone wait till the new armor settings are out and start then with crying?maybe the change is the solution

they are fair arguements. yes, sure, in the future, Soma and Galatine(& Acrid) may very well be balanced weapons. the point, is there are here now, and they aren't, NOW. might as well hold off on the new weapons if they will be balanced around what the game will be in the future, while further trivializing existing content, as well as what little difficulty might actually exist in Warframe.

 

 

 

so your opinion is opposite to those of the Developers mhhh...

 

i wonder who is right?

a Developer is a group of people just like anyone else. they are not necessarily right. it would be totally different if Warframe was just a little project they were working on just for themselves. but this is a wide ranging game, with a wide range of players. 

is what a Developer says important? certainly. do they necessarily always have the best ideas? no, neither does the community. but the only way Warframe can improve is if we all step back and think about what's in front of us. and we collaboratively judge everything in the game, and really think about all of the suggestions. even nerf threads are suggestions, just badly worded. and it says a lot about a weapon if there's 20 threads a day about it and saying it's out of line. if that many people agree, it certainly is. that's not the only case when something can be way out of line, but it's the most obvious one. 

 

otherwise, if we just walk like sheep to a meatgrinder, we could suddenly wake up with iPhones in our hands and wonder why we can't do anything useful, and everything is broken. 

Edited October 9, 2013 by taiiat

[merryfistmas]

soma isn't that powerful at higher lvl's actually it becomes useless at some point.

Useless compared to what? Are you forgeting that you can add piercing hit?

 

It's not OP. It's a new standard.

At some point a tactical nuke that kills every enemy in the solar system will be "the new standard"

 

But I agree with a lot of the people here about the armor rework. It's pointless to rebalance weapons until it comes out because:

 

1) we have no idea how it will actually affect weapons.

 

and

 

2) any balancing we do now will likely have to be redone after the armor rework.

 

So yes, the soma is disgustingly OP but it's really not worth it to do anything about it until armor 2.0

Edited October 9, 2013 by merryfistmas

[Nuntium]

Grakata is like a SMG, Soma is like a Assault/battle rifle two different things.  Soma & Grakata are in two different weapon classes IMO. Also they said they were putting weapons into tiers, beginning, mid, end game..   Soma is end game, Grakata more like Mid game.

IMO they are very comparable. Both have large magazines, low bullet damage, high fire rate, and high crit chance. Soma just also happens to have higher crit chance, higher damage, higher crit damage, and a bigger mag. 

[Enomilli]

You already opened a flamer threat about the same topic here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/117425-de-why-is-the-soma-a-perfect-weapon/

why bother to spam here aswell?

 

here is a good read for you ( its the only sticky in this subforum btw) you should really give it a read before opening the next nerf spam threat

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53259-dont-even-nerf-thread-till-you-own-it-please-give-it-a-read/

I have a potatoed max level Soma. Hush.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Ystella