Story Progression - Chains of Harrow and The Void

[Persapious]

Preface

I'm open to criticism and accept the fact that I'm going to get roasted on this post. Please hear me out though...

My game time in Warframe has spanned across a year and a half. I'm not an advanced player and obviously not a veteran player. Recently, my focus has been story progression and not so much player progression, though I understand that those two things go hand-in-hand in modern games. I have the desire to better my skill and build more advanced Frames as time goes on.

I love the Warframe story line and have looked forward to the story progression. I've tried so hard to stay away from spoilers since I've heard a lot of amazing things about the plot elements. I look forward to the day when I can actually experience the story progression.

My Current Understanding of the T4 Void Missions

From my research, the T4 Void missions deal 4x baseline damage. From what I have read from the community, a) these missions are designed for veteran and advanced players, and b) T4 Void missions provide these players something to enjoy with the challenge these missions comes with.

Questions

I question these assertions mentioned above, which are made by many in the Waframe community. Does this hold true, even in 2020? Do veteran and advanced players continuously play T4 Void missions still? If so, what are the metrics?

Argument

If T4 Void missions are designed for veteran and advanced players, then is it true to assume that story progression is exclusively for veteran and advanced players as well?

Requiring players to unlock Mot, to start the Chains of Harrow quest line (solo quest), seems a bit confusing. If I am not able to progress through T4 Void missions, then I'll assume a few things about myself as a Warframe player:

1. I haven't played long enough, so I must play more.
2. I'm an inferior player, so I must learn to play better.
3. My Frames/Mods are inferior, so I must spend more time and grind for better frames and mods.

If I'm not able to experience the story, then I must believe that the Warframe Community and the game itself is telling me that I'm not enough good or advanced enough to experience the story. It's important to note that Chains of Harrow is required to progress through the chronological story.

What is the point of T4 Void missions in how they relate to story progression? Is player progression so tightly inter-twinged, that the only way I can experience the story is to improve on any of the three points listed above? 

Proposed Solutions as the Player

1. Play More: Veterans have played many years and have already progressed through T4 Void missions countless times, so it's safe to assume that with time, I'll be able to progress passed the T4 Void missions too.
2. Learn to Play Better: This is connected with the first point. With time and dedication, I'll increase my skill and progress through T4 Void missions.
3. Use a Better Frame: Which frame is designed for T4 Void missions? Ask any advanced or veteran player, and you'll get numerous suggestions, some that even contradict each other.
4. Find a Group: What mechanism do I use to group up with other players: Discord, in-game queue system, in-game chat channels? In the past 3 months attempting to queue up for Aten, I've never been able to find a player that actually stays around after the first few wipes. My clan is not active in the T4 Void missions, so I should find a different clan. Alternatively, I can use Discord to try to find other players who want to progress through Warframe's story line.

Message to Developers

What is the point of T4 Void missions in 2020? What do you want the T4 Void missions to mean to the game and to the community as a whole? I challenge the idea that it is only meant for veteran or experienced players looking for a challenge. I'm sure I can speak on behalf of a lot of players when I say that T4 Void missions need to change and the Warframe story needs to be more inclusive.

If you want players to experience the Warframe and its story, then finally open T4 Void missions up to all types of players and change how the T4 Void missions are designed. 

A good game should tell a good story and stories shouldn't be exclusive. That being said, rewards could be exclusive.

Proposed System Changes

Revamp all the T4 Void missions using a tiered difficulty and reward pool system.

For example,

All T4 Void missions have a setting difficulty that the player chooses:

• Story mode - Baseline enemy damage / baseline enemy armor
• Normal mode - 2x enemy damage / or increased enemy armor
• Hard mode - 3x enemy damage / or increased enemy armor
• Veteran/Legendary mode - 4x enemy damage / or increased enemy armor

With each tier of difficulty, there are also tiered reward pools. 

• T4 Void - Story mode
  • Reward: Upon completion of all T4 Void missions, story progression continues and Chains of Harrow is unlocked
• T4 Void - Normal mode
  • Reward Pool: Common Mods, frame and weapon parts, credits, endo
• T4 Void - Hard mode
  • Reward Pool: High-end Mods (chance at a Primed Mod), Prime Frame parts, Prime weapon parts, chance at a Legendary Core, Forma, Kuva, more credits, more endo, boosters
• T4 Void - Veteran/Legendary mode
  • Reward Pool: High-end Mods (chance at a Primed or Riven Mod), Prime Frames, Prime weapons, Forma, higher chance of Legendary Core dropping, more Kuva, more credits, more endo, and more boosters

Conclusion

With a tiered system, T4 Void missions can be more meaningful to story progression and player progression at the same time. With the revamped T4 Void missions, a player can experience the story and go back to enhance their skill set and reap the benefits with more rewards.

Edited March 8, 2020 by boosterfuel

[bad4youLT]

The way I see it it works like "newb gate" , right after chains of harrow if player has build personal quarters segment he or she can advence to apostasy prolouge wich leads to the sacrifice.

Now I seen many mr5 player who strugle in sacrifice because they are not prepared to face sentients with their damage reduction gimic wich they have mind you kill a loads of those pesky units to pregress unlike in second dream there one just can run past them.

So I dunno I kinda makes sence to me that where should be some kind of hard wall for weaker players incentivize to improve.

[Persapious]

@bad4youLT - Thank you for jumping into this conversation. I respect and understand your view. If I may, let me address your points.

"The way I see it it works like newb gate"

This concept surrounding T4 Void missions seems to be a common sentiment among a particular sub-set of experienced players within the Warframe community. I'm not trying to say that you're this type of player or insinuating that your view is 'elitist' in itself, but this is the status quo that I'm trying to challenge with my original post.

The issues I have with the T4 Void missions being a "newb gate," are as follows:

• It's bad story-telling. Games that create a 'soft' gate before progressing through a story creates problems with the flow or momentum of the story. One could argue that a 'soft' gate is better that a 'hard' gate (i.e. purchased DLC or Expansion), but that argument doesn't apply to Warframe and is a totally different topic relevant to other games.
• "Weaker players," as you identify, will totally skip the T4 Void missions and incidentally bypass much of Warframe's critical stories. This alienates a sub-set of the player-base from Warframe's story, which over time, may cause these players to care less about the story. I wouldn't believe that DE would want this of players, as these players would be missing out on an opportunity of witnessing a good story. Unfortunately, I've skipped the T4 Void missions - even though I'm MR11 - and much of the story and focused on areas of the game that are actually accessible to me. I'm enjoying these areas of the game and still having fun, but knowing in the back of my mind, that I'm missing out on more. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this situation.

"So I dunno I kinda makes sence to me that where should be some kind of hard wall for weaker players incentivize to improve.[SIC]"

I'm not sure if I follow. If you're relating this statement to my original post, then I can only think you're alluding to the idea that experiencing the Warframe story is the actual incentive. If not, what do you believe the incentive to be? Incentives could be:

1. Loot (gear, weapons, etc.)
2. Player progression (skill)
3. Story progression

Is the Warframe story the incentive in this case? I suppose we all have our goals and identify parts of the game that motivate us as players in Warframe. Meeting those goals comes with some sort of progression. In this case, I can accept story progression as the actual incentive, if that's DE's intention. Usually, the carrot stick is loot with looter-shooters. If the story is actually the incentive, and is intended to be by DE, then I'll accept that claim and continue to focus on other areas of the game that are more accessible, while continuing to become a better player to progress through Warframe's story in the future.

 

[Shalath]

I don't think Mot should be a requirement for CoH for this very reason. While most of the T4 missions aren't too bad even for a solo player like myself Aten can be a real problem as when I first tried it for CoH even my strongest frames struggled to survive and the defence target stood no chance. After a couple of days of trying different strategies I realised that if I wanted to progress in the story I was going to have to ask for help which is literally admitting defeat for a solo player. Luckily for me I found a post stating that if I ran Mot again (I had been taxied there in the past for relic farming) it should unlock CoH which it did. I had to go back to Aten later with a clan mate to complete it when arbitrations released.

3 years ago I wasn't a vet but I was far from inexperienced or under-equipped. Honestly I would probably struggle solo with that node even now without a couple of specifc frames and very specific builds.

Yes, the T4 nodes are a gear check which I fully get and agree with. Yes, if you can't handle T4 then you are going to have a bad time with a quite a few other areas of the game but the difference is that those areas are all optional when the story is really not. Aten is a far tougher nut to crack than any of the story quests after it so it doesn't really make sense from a progression point of view to expect new-ish players to complete what used to be pretty much end-game nodes about two thirds of the way through the story. CoH finishes on Tiwaz which is only level 20-25 as opposed to Aten which is 40-45???

[Persapious]

@Shalath - I appreciate your perspective and find your insight interesting seeing that it's coming from an experienced player such as yourself. I'd like to expand on a few points you've made.

"Yes, the T4 nodes are a gear check which I fully get and agree with."

I agree that there should be gear checks in Warframe. Adding to this point, there should also be skill checks as well, but I'm not sure how "skill" is defined in Warframe. If T4 Void missions are those checks, then why have those checks so early before the Chain of Horrows?

According to story chronology, Chains of Harrow leads to the following quest steps: Apostasy Prologue > The Sacrifice > Chimera Prologue. Each quest step requires that the previous quest step be completed. If Warframe has gear checks, where should the gear check be in the story line? Should Warframe have gear checks throughout the story line? Again, in my opinion, this has consequences and possibly compromises the pacing of story-telling.

If someone were to tell me that Chains of Harrow is end-game, then I could accept the difficulty with T4 Void missions as necessity. However, I don't believe Chains of Harrow is end-game. It may lead into end-game, like with the other quest steps mentioned earlier, but I don't think it's end-game in itself. Please correct me if I am wrong, but historically T4 Void missions were end-game at some point in time. Does that make Chains of Harrow end-game now?

As for other gear checks in Warframe, I was under the impression that players had them in Elite Sanctuary Onslaughts, Sortie missions, and Sedna arenas - all of which are much more manageable for for me than T4 Void missions. I'll assume that these events are more accessible to other players as well.

"Yes, if you can't handle T4 then you are going to have a bad time with a quite a few other areas of the game but the difference is that those areas are all optional when the story is really not."

I agree with the idea of having gear/skill checks throughout the game; however, one can argue that the story is also optional. I've chosen to bypass Chains of Harrow, and all the other quests after it, because of the reasons mentioned in my original post. I have the option to test my build and skill in other events such as the ones listed above.

"Honestly I would probably struggle solo with that node even now without a couple of specifc frames and very specific builds.[SIC]"

It's interesting that you mention this, as I find it common within the Warframe community to specify that there are only a few select Frames that are viable for T4 Void missions. However, the recommendations are inconsistent and at times contradict each other.

"Aten is a far tougher nut to crack than any of the story quests after it so it doesn't really make sense from a progression point of view to expect new-ish players to complete what used to be pretty much end-game nodes about two thirds of the way through the story."

If T4 Void missions "used" to be end-game, are they still end-game even in 2020? If not, what is the purpose of them at their current state other than possibly existing as gear/skill checks? If they're still intended to be a check on the player in 2020, then what is the intention of having Elite Sanctuary Onslaughts, Sortie missions, and Sedna arenas? Are those gear/skill checks as well? You can see how this can come across as confusing for new and non-experienced players.

@Steve Sinclair - If you're out there and reading this, please hear me out - from one coffee drinker to another. :)

I want to stress this point: I'm not complaining about T4 Void missions. I think there's an opportunity keep them as gear/skill checks - if intended - but be open to the idea of revamping them. Revamping them with the systems I suggested would achieve a few things:

• Retain the past end-game feel for experienced/veteran player if they choose to use T4 Void missions as a challenge
• Provide a seamless path for new players to experience the story, and allows them to go back and try the more difficult tiers to improve their gear/skill
• Provide a tiered loot pool based on difficulty setting - earn more loot as you master more difficult T4 Void missions

To all - I love Waframe and passionate about the Community. I get a warm feeling in my stomach when I read about the story of Digital Extremes and their roots. My opinions and ideas do not stem from toxicity nor complaining, but from the passion I have to see this game improve over time.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by boosterfuel