I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Althix]

haha. yeah right. do you know how fast bf3 lost its community? but they still have players.

 

there is a difference between players and community. you as grand master must understand that. because you know - we, founders, already outlived our usefulness.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Althix

[KvotheTheArcane1]

haha. yeah right. do you know how fast bf3 lost its community? but they still have players.

 

there is a difference between players and community. you as grand master must understand that. because you know - we, founders, already outlived our usefulness.

Out of curiosity, when was the most recent DC thread made? (doesn't matter the topic, just how long ago)

Edited January 3, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Katakuna]

players come and go.

 

Which is bad, mind you.  One would think retaining player interest for longer than several months is better than not for a video game.  I'd love it if Warframe became a game that one can always go back to when bored of other games, instead of being one of those boring other games that players feel they need to escape from.  I myself always find myself going back to Killing Floor or L4D2; they never get boring, no matter how many hundreds of hours I play them.

 

As it stands, however, I can only hope there's a neverending tide of new players for DE to entertain for a few months before they too feel the same way as we do.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Katakuna

[Althix]

Out of curiosity, when was the most recent DC thread made? (doesn't matter the topic, just how long ago)

31 dec.

 

look, i wasn't talking about DC in general, more to say i am very sceptical and cynical about DC, but Nugget already have it covered. I was talking about other things.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

31 dec.

 

look, i wasn't talking about DC in general, more to say i am very sceptical and cynical about DC, but Nugget already have it covered. I was talking about other things.

Ah, I was just curious if anything was even still happening there (and yeah, I know what you were getting at, founders were more or less used for their money)

[OptimumBow0]

Well, since this is a game that continually evolves and will continually evolve, I'll just hold my breath and wait for DE to improve Warframe to perfection.

[Althix]

^ mmm... and i don't see this game evolve. because it is not. it's the same U7 game i saw first time. This game is in a stagnation phase at best.

[OptimumBow0]

^ mmm... and i don't see this game evolve. because it is not. it's the same U7 game i saw first time. This game is in a stagnation phase at best.

New tilesets, new gametypes, dynamic invasions, infested outbreaks, trading system, etc...,etc...

 

You don't see that in Halo 4.

[Althix]

new gametypes?.. like what? survival?

 

yeah once in a year it is a good idea to add half made mode to the game.

[Sparrohawk]

Don't worry, I've noticed that my edits are becoming less thought out and more "rant-ey". Why?  Because I've written thousands and thousands of words in countless threads to DE with solutions and feedback, and it's gone absolutely nowhere.

 

Wait, what? How do you know that's it's gone nowhere? How do you know that many of your words weren't taken into consideration? How do you know that this thread and others has not been brought up in internal discussions between developers? Simply put, you don't.

 

Did you consider that maybe DE feels you're wrong? Consider that even if all your words are heartfelt and worthy analyses of the game, it doesn't make them correct. Or perhaps, there is more than one correct answer, and that your feedback, while worthwhile, may not be good for the overall health of the game, as far as the developers are concerned.

 

It does strike me that you're not only bitter about the game, but that you feel you're having no effect on it. Unfortunately, such is the nature of game development, Only in the rarest of rare situations will your feedback be directly acknowledged, and even more rarely will it have a direct impact on the game. Ultimately unless you have a direct line to the developers you'll never know how your feedback is being taken, and it would be healthier to disabuse yourself of the notion that your work will have a direct impact. It almost never will. 

 

All you can do is post, make points, and let it be read. You can engage in argument, engage in discussion, and share words with others. What you can not do is ever assume a direct impact. Assume that the developers and CM's read the forums (it's part of their job, in the case of CM's), but don't go looking for a direct impact, because you won't get it. And that will make you really depressed.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sparrohawk

[bejuizb]

Fair enough. His thread's done the job: spark discussion and lay down the problems of the game in words. I'm assuming he's not looking for the developers to heed his every solution, but rather to at least say something more than : We know that this is the issue. That downright pisses me off as well. 

[Sparrohawk]

Fair enough. His thread's done the job: spark discussion and lay down the problems of the game in words. I'm assuming he's not looking for the developers to heed his every solution, but rather to at least say something more than : We know that this is the issue. That downright &!$$es me off as well. 

 

And they've said that about a few things. It's healthier to assume that they know about the other things as well. You're never going to get direct acknowledgement of everything you write, or even the majority of it.

[bejuizb]

And they've said that about a few things. It's healthier to assume that they know about the other things as well. You're never going to get direct acknowledgement of everything you write, or even the majority of it.

And I'm supposed to leave it at that? I think we as the players have the right to know what we're playing. I'm not asking them for a lot of work either. Just a bit more detail as to what they might do to fix this or remedy that. 

[Sparrohawk]

And I'm supposed to leave it at that? I think we as the players have the right to know what we're playing. I'm not asking them for a lot of work either. Just a bit more detail as to what they might do to fix this or remedy that. 

 

Yes, you are. Because, in all likelihood, you're not going to get it. 

 

And you may not be asking them for a lot of work. But these people are not communicators, they are game developers. It is not their job to communicate everything they're doing to you. They do quite a lot of that, through Livestreams, the Hot Topics, and so forth. Plus, there is the staff tracker. It's not a lot of work, no. But to a group of people who already have quite a lot on their table (I presume, hearing the stories that the public hear about game designers' workloads), it's quite a lot to ask.

[LukeAura]

New tilesets, new gametypes, dynamic invasions, infested outbreaks, trading system, etc...,etc...

 

You don't see that in Halo 4.

New tilesets that play like the old. 

new gametype that adds very little unique gameplay.   

invasions and outbreaks that are 'dynamic' that lack the dynamic feel and provide very little extensions of gameplay.

If invasions could occur mid mission, and not like how they used to, but full on crash into each other with a giant explosion and enemies start pouring in from another angle on us, that would be dynamic where we have to make the choice mid mission on the go, continue with the original objective or fight off the attacking enemy.

 

These are expansions to content we've already done and got bored with.

They're not evolutions, nor refinements. They don't improve on the part of the game that we should find enjoyable. It's a brief mask to make something stale seem fresh without actually making it so. 

 

[Luminati07]

New tilesets, new gametypes, dynamic invasions, infested outbreaks, trading system, etc...,etc...

 

You don't see that in Halo 4.

Tilesets - Sure, new tilesets are always great. But, when these tilesets still house the exact same terrible mission types, what sort of gameplay is it adding?

All you're getting is some new eye candy, and that novelty wears off pretty quick.

 

The Corpus Outposts are the perfect example. Ice levels? Awesome. But, when I'm still playing the same Run to A, kill B, run to C, it doesn't matter what the tileset looks like, the gameplay is still dull.

 

New gametypes - Such as?

Survival? The "endgame" of Warframe.

The Capture overhaul?

 

Warframe's missions are incredibly dull. High wave defense and long Survival missions can only carry the game so far.

I'd say introducing some truly interesting mission types should be high up on the devs to do list.

 

Dynamic invasions and Infested Outbreaks - I've expressed my opinions on these for a while, but I want to ask you a question.

If these were purely optional. And if these offered absolutely no battlepay whatsoever, how many players would actually play these because they genuinely enjoy them?

 

I'd wager it'd be a hell of a lot less than the current numbers.

 

Trading system - I'll give you that one, but I don't see what this has to do with Halo.

 

Wait, what? How do you know that's it's gone nowhere? How do you know that many of your words weren't taken into consideration? How do you know that this thread and others has not been brought up in internal discussions between developers? Simply put, you don't.

 

Did you consider that maybe DE feels you're wrong? Consider that even if all your words are heartfelt and worthy analyses of the game, it doesn't make them correct. Or perhaps, there is more than one correct answer, and that your feedback, while worthwhile, may not be good for the overall health of the game, as far as the developers are concerned.

 

It does strike me that you're not only bitter about the game, but that you feel you're having no effect on it. Unfortunately, such is the nature of game development, Only in the rarest of rare situations will your feedback be directly acknowledged, and even more rarely will it have a direct impact on the game. Ultimately unless you have a direct line to the developers you'll never know how your feedback is being taken, and it would be healthier to disabuse yourself of the notion that your work will have a direct impact. It almost never will. 

 

All you can do is post, make points, and let it be read. You can engage in argument, engage in discussion, and share words with others. What you can not do is ever assume a direct impact. Assume that the developers and CM's read the forums (it's part of their job, in the case of CM's), but don't go looking for a direct impact, because you won't get it. And that will make you really depressed.

How do I know it's gone nowhere?

You're right, I have no guarantee.

 

But, considering how these forums are literally littered with complaints about RNG, and Rebecca says "we are working on it", but then hours later, the Harvester comes out with 3 layers of it. How can I possibly think that they have actually taken any feedback into consideration.

 

Heh. I absolutely agree that the devs feel I'm wrong. I absolutely agree....

[Sparrohawk]

Just because someone has take an opinion into consideration does not, in any way whatsoever, mean they are going to act accordingly. They are undoubtedly aware of what you say, given the size and nature of this thread. But they have many opinions and positions to consider and they won't please everyone.

Second, you're attributing two things being related (Rebecca talking about RNG and the Harvester) when that is not necessarily the case. Harvester may have been in the works for a while, possibly since Zanuka arrived or before, so conflating the response from DE with the release of Harvester isn't necessarily wise.

[Althix]

won't please everyone...

you see this thread for the most part consists of common sense, and for much smaller part of personal opinion (no offence Nugget).

as a member of a community with 4300 active members for the last 10 years, i made a post there about warframe game. so you can guess how many views it had. Many people got interested in this game so they came to me with questions about the game. So most popular question was : what to do when you have it all? i think you know my answer right?

it's not about pleasing everyone it's about making a decent, serious game. As it now wf is game for two weeks maximum if you are terribly slow. This problem with RNG is a result when actual gaming content is much smaller than content to grind. To a point where it's literally impossible to squeeze drops into existing gaming content.

Developer not only not taking into consideration human factor, but also have very distant understanding about gaming factor as well. Or if you are cynical as me - you may assume that they know all of this all too well.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Althix

[OptimumBow0]

 

 I don't see what this has to do with Halo.

 Halo Reach hasn't had a major change to it in I-don't-know-how-long whereas DE gives us something new every 2 months or so. The difference is that Warframe, though DE may not do a very good job, is slowly changing. Damage 2.0 shook the foundations; all those forum posts about it. Like a frickin flood.

New tilesets that play like the old. 

new gametype that adds very little unique gameplay.   
invasions and outbreaks that are 'dynamic' that lack the dynamic feel and provide very little extensions of gameplay.

If invasions could occur mid mission, and not like how they used to, but full on crash into each other with a giant explosion and enemies start pouring in from another angle on us, that would be dynamic where we have to make the choice mid mission on the go, continue with the original objective or fight off the attacking enemy.

That's funny.

 

A collision between 2 factions happened earlier today while I was running Naiad. (Just not in a spectacular crash)

 

I thought Lotus was buggin' out when she told me Grineer were coming. The first Lancer I saw shouted "Tenno! Motherf- !"

 

Anyway, DE is working on new stuff, like Vay Hek's rework. I'm sure we'll see some new, evolutionary content in the future. The Penta and Ballistica are a step in that evolutionary direction in the way that they function. And all this stuff DE gives us is more than you'll ever see other games do. Well, current games. Bungie's Destiny and some other future games will evolve as they progress.

Edited January 4, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[Althix]

you remind me a one guy here on page 10 or 11. He said - hey yes they removed infested from a solar system, but they gave us Penta in return.

 

same flawed logic and blindness.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Althix

[OptimumBow0]

you remind me a one guy here on page 10 or 11. He said - hey yes they removed infested from a solar system, but they gave us Penta in return.

 

same flawed logic and blindness.

Personally, I didn't really care what they did to the Infested. The outbreaks take a really long time to stop anyway, so it's not like there's a big chasm in my heart about losing a beloved faction.

[LukeAura]

 

 

 

 Halo Reach hasn't had a major change to it in I-don't-know-how-long whereas DE gives us something new every 2 months or so. The difference is that Warframe, though DE may not do a very good job, is slowly changing. Damage 2.0 shook the foundations; all those forum posts about it. Like a frickin flood.

That's funny.

 

A collision between 2 factions happened earlier today while I was running Naiad. (Just not in a spectacular crash)

 

I thought Lotus was buggin' out when she told me Grineer were coming. The first Lancer I saw shouted "Tenno! Motherf- !"

 

Anyway, DE is working on new stuff, like Vay Hek's rework. I'm sure we'll see some new, evolutionary content in the future. The Penta and Ballistica are a step in that evolutionary direction in the way that they function. And all this stuff DE gives us is more than you'll ever see other games do. Well, current games. Bungie's Destiny and some other future games will evolve as they progress.

 

That's what I meant by how they used to. It's still not dynamic though. We slowly walk in to it, going from one faction to another. It is not an abrupt change. We're always showing up after the fight starts, we're never there when it starts to make a 'heat of the moment' decision. 

Penta is great change of pace for gameplay, it's unique, requires some skill, can be used for amazing kills.

I'd like to think Vay Hek is an improvement, but after Ruk I'm thinking not so. Ruk didn't evolve the gameplay. He's just like Krill or Raptor. A boss with an invincibility phase and powerful AoE attacks.   

 

[OptimumBow0]

That's what I meant by how they used to. It's still not dynamic though. We slowly walk in to it, going from one faction to another. It is not an abrupt change. We're always showing up after the fight starts, we're never there when it starts to make a 'heat of the moment' decision. 

It was pretty heated since I was thinking "WHAT THE HEL-!?" 

 

I'd like to think Vay Hek is an improvement, but after Ruk I'm thinking not so. Ruk didn't evolve the gameplay. He's just like Krill or Raptor. A boss with an invincibility phase and powerful AoE attacks.   

I don't know what you're talking about; the new Ruk gives people seizures and epileptic attacks with his brightness - evolution of gameplay right there.

[LukeAura]

It was pretty heated since I was thinking "WHAT THE HEL-!?" 

Only if you've never seen it before. It happens pretty much constantly every derelict for me. "It's the grineer!" For the third key in a row. 

Still, that's shock on your part, not heated action. After that, same gameplay, nothing changes. 

 

I don't know what you're talking about; the new Ruk gives people seizures and epileptic attacks with his brightness - evolution of gameplay right there.

Well he did get a shiny new tin can suit, and some nice fireworks to make the grande finale of his death all the more appealing. But he probably has the worst invincibility phase of any boss. There is no indication of how much time his phase lasts, no real pattern to determine.  

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

 

 

 Halo Reach hasn't had a major change to it in I-don't-know-how-long whereas DE gives us something new every 2 months or so. The difference is that Warframe, though DE may not do a very good job, is slowly changing. Damage 2.0 shook the foundations; all those forum posts about it. Like a frickin flood.

That's funny.

tbf, Halo reach isn't a F2P game that needs constant updates to survive.