Scarlet spear reward scaling

[32768]

I just played ground mission once, so i might be missing something, however first thing i noticed is that reward scaling is not quite right. This might or might not be one of the reason why you are getting so much flak for this update. I'm just trying to help, okay?

If someone did 3 waves they get 90 points, if they did 10 waves they supposedly get 825 points. Reference: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Operation:_Scarlet_Spear#Scarlet_Credits.2FScoring

Points reward isn't proportional to time spent in mission therefore unfair. IMO reward for 3 waves should be exactly 30% of reward for 10 waves. 825 * 0.3 = 247.5, 247.5 - 90 = 157.5 - this is how many points i didn't get for doing that mission. Moreover, anyone who spend less than 17 waves would be lacking on points. People who lasted for 16 waves should get 2295 / 17 * 16 = 2160 points instead of 2040.

Scaling reward is the way forward, i'm not saying that you should remove that, but i suspect that you're over-complicating this. For example, you could just add %% bonus on top of flat reward per wave, e.g. 100 points per wave with 30% bonus would give after 3 waves: 100 * 3 + 100 * 3 * 0.3 = 390 points, after 10 waves: 100 * 10 + 100 * 10 * 0.3 = 1300 points. 390 / 1300 = 0.3 exactly. After wave 17 it would give 100 * 17 + 100 * 17 * 0.3 = 2210 points, which is pretty close to what it is now, but no one feels robbed of their points. Also 2210 / 17 * 3 = 390 - reward for 3 waves.

%% does the scaling so peeps get progressively more points, for 3 waves bonus is 90 points, for 5 waves it's 150, for 17 waves it's 510 bonus points, but overall reward is proportional to time spent in mission. That's it.

Again, it's not to add on top of the stuff you're getting, i know for a fact that it's hard to get this stuff right. Good luck.

Edited March 26, 2020 by 32768

[krc473]

31 minutes ago, 32768 said:

Scaling reward is the way forward, i'm not saying that you should remove that, but i suspect that you're over-complicating this.

Personally, I like the scaling rewards. I don’t think it is complicated at all. For me, the issue is what you start on. If they could increase the start point by a little it would feel so much more rewarding. As it is now, getting 17 twice doesn’t even give 5000 points - it really should be giving at least that many. I would be happy with any system that gave 2.5k+ points for completing the run (17 things).

• I am hoping DE rethinks this when they fix the bonus rewards and the rest of the issues.

[Xaero]

51 minutes ago, 32768 said:

Points reward isn't proportional to time spent in mission therefore unfair. IMO reward for 3 waves should be exactly 30% of reward for 10 waves.

If time spent in missions is the only thing taken into account, should rewards of low-level content be equal to rewards of high-level content?

[32768]

18 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Personally, I like the scaling rewards. I don’t think it is complicated at all. For me, the issue is what you start on. If they could increase the start point by a little it would feel so much more rewarding. As it is now, getting 17 twice doesn’t even give 5000 points - it really should be giving at least that many. I would be happy with any system that gave 2.5k+ points for completing the run (17 things).

My point is that rewards scaling should work both ways: up and down. For 2 waves you currently get 45 points, for 3 waves twice as much, even though you've spent only 33% more time in mission. This works as incentive to stay in missions longer, i guess, but you get double points for less time, it's not like it's twice harder to do wave 3 than wave 2, and doing 10 waves isn't 10 times harder than doing 3, right?

It's sort of wonky. Right now optimal run is 17 waves only because of the cap, if cap is increased to 18 waves then 17 is not going to be optimal anymore because you would get less points than you could. To get you to 2500 they probably could increase cap to 20 waves, so you have to stay in mission longer instead, but what you really want is not to stay in mission longer, but to get points faster aren't you?. IMO it should do both: scale and be more or less fair at the same time. Perhaps most importantly it shouldn't feel underwhelming and unfair.

1 minute ago, Xaero said:

If time spent in missions is the only thing taken into account, should rewards of low-level content be equal to rewards of high-level content?

High-level content should take more time, isn't it? Maybe i didn't express myself very clearly, i'm not designing the game for them, although you've nailed the point. Perhaps number of waves in math should be replaced with some other metric. Either way there are two leverages to work with: flat reward and %% bonus. It is possible to increase either to match increased difficulty. But IMO it shouldn't be like 3 waves give twice as much points as 2 waves, the difference between 2 and 3 waves is not that big.

Limiting factor here is not the difficulty, it's health of that thingy we are protecting, and i think Limbo cancels entire difficulty altogether in that particular mission, or so i think. So i've spent time in mission, i did all the objectives, i didn't die, but that thingy they gave me died and i've got virtually nothing in the end. I could stay in mission for longer, no probs. But is that my fault that i didn't bring Limbo but brought warframe that i wanted instead? Or is that my fault that no one joined the squad and didn't place another thingy? I think, in it's essence, it's just time spent in mission really. From what i've seen, a lot of people are saying that operation does not respect their time.

But i might be wrong. It's just my feedback as i see it.

[krc473]

1 hour ago, 32768 said:

Limiting factor here is not the difficulty, it's health of that thingy we are protecting, and i think Limbo cancels entire difficulty altogether in that particular mission, or so i think.

Limbo does trivialise the defence component. 

1 hour ago, 32768 said:

IMO it should do both: scale and be more or less fair at the same time. Perhaps most importantly it shouldn't feel underwhelming and unfair.

That sounds roughly what I want too. I believe the way it works now is 5 points per code, and three codes per boss. You get 5 extra per boss you fight. So, 1: 15, 2: 30, 3: 45 etc. I want the starting number to be higher. That way we get a lower percentage increase, but more points without the scaling. Some people just don’t have time to spend hours in the missions. I guess we just have different ideas on how to fix the problem. I am happy with anything that makes it more rewarding. Given that I keep missing the bonus credits and being given the wrong tier medals I feel that a higher starting payout is the best option.

Edited March 26, 2020 by krc473
Typo

[32768]

55 minutes ago, krc473 said:

That sounds roughly what I want to. I believe the way it works now is 5 points per code, and three codes per boss.

I just want my stuff, man. I did the mission and sent teh codes to whoever. I don't think codes sent from waves 1-3 are any different from codes sent from wave 10 in the entire picture of things. "Where is my stuff" is the only question i had after that mission.

I strongly suspect that all this is just unnecessary complicated.