I believe a bunch of Grineer need a rebalance...

[Mados.sys]

I really doubt that this is just me because well, number aren't lying but Grineer seem to be pretty damn unbalanced, now "Unbalanced" isn't the same as "Overpowered" so please avoid the typical "lol just use Inaros or Rhino then" or "just kill them first" because that helps no one and it sounds more like a bad joke. Sadly enough no, neither does it work quickly using the melee for blocking because until the attack animation is over, you are defenseless and there's no "quick block" button for the people that have good reaction time.

With that said, the reason why I feel that Grineers are pretty damn unbalanced really depends, some are way too fast, deal way too much DPS, some are impossible to dodge, some are quite silly, etc etc, now I'm gonna try to name some enemies that I feel has at least one problem attached to it, I'm not gonna give "solutions" since if the devs ever saw a post like this (doubt) they would do their own changes.

• Ballistica: An extremely squishy sniper unit, should be precise and deal a huge amount of damage, it's compensated by the laser which shows you from where she's shooting, sounds good but the thing is... she has a rank 20 Heavy caliber on her, no matter how many times she shoots, or how close you are, she'll always miss, her precision is one of the worse in the game and only once I've been killed by them, it's pretty funny standing right in front of them and even then, their bullets will go like 120º around the Warframe. I like the idea of the enemy being predictable, on that way you can avoid it but... you don't even have to try because she'll never hit you.

 

• Seeker (the ones using the Kraken): These guys are the true Ballisticas of the game, their Kraken are somehow pretty damn precise, shoot way faster and they deal the same amount of damage than the Ballistica would, if they are way more precise and have more DPS, shouldn't they have like, less damage so they aren't as overwhelming? but that's not the only thing, they also like throwing little rollers that snap to the warframe and explode in a few second, but that roller deals literally nothing, if I remember well on level 165 they deal like 100 damage to your shield... (I'm not even sure if that was before the shield gating changes)

 

• Bombard: Their damage is ok since they are pretty tough and well, having an ultra damaging AoE weapon for the enemies sound really overpowered, but there's something that bothers me a lot from them and it's the projectiles, the rockets somehow are homing and their flight speed is EXTREMELY S L O W, sounds like a good idea having a slow but deadly projectile that you can easily predict and dodge, on paper it sounds nice but in reality it's just wrong, like... the rockets are so slow that even if you dodge or flank them, they'll do an U turn and keep following you, exploding right on our ass when we least expect it, and that's in an hypothetical situation were you're just trying to escape from one rocket (because they shoot multiple) and you aren't focused on giant crowds of enemies. We are usually too busy dealing with other enemies than having to deal slowmo rockets that will not stop following you. It's also worth mentioning that the rockets are so small that you can't even see them coming half of the time, or hell, they are even INVISIBLE with the corrupted bombards. (a little suggestion would be increasing the flight speed, make it stop following you at a certain arc, probably reduce the fire rate a bit and also display a laser like the Ballistica to show their location and kill them quickly as a priority, that laser being a sort of heat sensor that would make sense as to why they are homing on the first place.)

 

• Elite Shield Lancer: This guy is probably what DE would have thought if they didn't had the slowmo homing rocket, but this is also why the damage of the Bombard is pretty ok comparing it to this guy... the Elite Shield Lancer sounds like a pretty good idea, just like the Shields in payday were you have to flank them, but now give the Shield a 4 round grenade launcher and there you have what this guy is, it's pretty good that he's extremely soft and his shield is impenetrable as a compensation, but dear god the Tonkor, as I said that Tonkor indeed has around 4 rounds and he can shoot them pretty quick, if I had to guess I would say they have like 1.20 fire rate, the damage that they deal is way, but WAY more than what the Bombard does, I'm not even sure but I wouldn't be surprised if it was even deadlier than the Napalm, the Tonkor while also shooting pretty fast, it's completely unpredictable and really fast, that combined with extreme damage, high fire rate and flight speed, big magazine it ends in a one shot fest, I even remember them doing like 8k damage on a single blast to the Oplink on like level 70 or 90. It would be nice if they used their shield to protect their teammates and if the tonkor could be predicted and it could be dodged, but for now these guys are my nightmare.

 

 

• Scortch, Hyekka master and Supressor: There's not too much to say about these guys, the only issue that I find is that the Ignis seems to work in a really weird way that makes them deadly, I don't even know if it was on purpose but I have my doubts, the thing with these Ignis users is that the flight speed of their flames is extremely slow, sounds fair with how much damage they do, but they also leave a completely invisible trail were they have previously used the ignis, that trail last for around 2 seconds and if you happen to go through it, you'll receive the massive amount of damage that they do right on the face, and it would leave you wondering "Well what the hell they weren't even aiming at me, I had them stunlocked, then what killed me?". It has happened multiple times on the Crewships that the place is so small that is recommendable to go melee, and with this weird trail what happens is that I go melee, stunlock them or kill them, and the trail afterwards procs cold on me, deals a heavy amount of damage or even kills me with no one else being alive on the ship. You can try this on the simulacrum, go on zigzag with them shooting at you, then try to flank them without going straight to their flames and you'll see that something invisible is hitting you.
• Kuva Shield Lancer: They seem to be a weird combination between the Elite Shield and the Seeker in a way, extremely squishy, but the fastest Marelok ever existed, their Mareloks somehow feel more like snipers in a way, dealing way more damage than any other unit and having a precision that it's creepy, this with the Elite Shield are my nightmare of instakill enemies that are impossible to avoid. (God bless Shield gating because before that, on level 70 - 100 these would almost one shot you unless you were a Rhino, Nidus or Inaros)

 

• Ramparts: Not a unit, just a Turret, but they still have some problems, their health scales waaaaay too fast to the point were at level 70 they are almost immortal unless you're hitting them in the right spot with an Amp, in my case the opticor-like shot is the only efficient way that I can destroy the Ramparts, and that sweet spot is multihit, it's around 6 hits of 9k damage, and I have to shoot 3 times, so you can already guess how much HP those things have. "Hurr but you can just ignore them" NO YOU CAN'T, if you leave a Grineer hop on that thing it will mag dump you with lots of slash procs, perfect accuracy, extreme fire rate and high damage, that if it's not aiming you because it would melt defense targets like butter. The ramparts are also 100% invincible on the front unless you're using an AoE weapon, that's the only way to damage them on the front, otherwise they have godmode, the user also it's unreachable with normal guns, hell even with Zenith which has infinite punch through cannot get through the Rampart and kill the guy, but that's not the only thing, somehow when you use a Rampart, the thing can be damage on the front by the enemies, regardless if they have AoE or hitscan... it's just weird and it doesn't make sense.

 

I'm pretty sure there's more but for now I don't want to make a whole wiki of what's wrong with every single enemy, I just wanted to point the most notorious and problematic things and see what other people think about it, if they can agree or if they think some of these things are perfectly balanced for some weird and obscure reason.

This is a topic that I thought it was worth making because now at day most of us are just fighting against Grineers since they have the most amount of content attached to them, Kuva fortress, Kuva siphons / floods, Liches, Railjack, you get the point, so if we are going to fight half of the time against them, it's just right that they are at least well balanced and feel fair to fight against, make those deaths of yours feel more like your fault than just the enemy having things that you couldn't avoid.

[Skythin]

lol just use Inaros or Rhino then

 

sorry, just had to

[Sintag]

Just kill them first.

 

Okay, obligatory snarking aside, Ballistas do need a major buff to accuracy so it feels like we're being sniped, not told 'oh hey, Tenno, here's some free Affinity.'  It's almost hilarious how much of a non-threat they (and their Corpus equivalents, when they're not spawning tazerbots Ratels are.

Bombard rockets could do with losing the target if we get past it.

Ramparts could also do with a health nerf, but then they'd go down too fast if we were the ones behind them, so it's a double-edged sword.

Whatever Kraken the Seeker's using, I want it.

Elite Lancers also block a ton of punch-through and are designed to "encourage" you (read: practically force you) to stay in the air and fire on them from above.  Maybe give them two shots instead?  Lower their fire rate?  I dunno.

[Mados.sys]

4 hours ago, Skythin said:

lol just use Inaros or Rhino then

 

sorry, just had to

4 hours ago, Sintag said:

Just kill them first.

 

AAAAAAA  R R R E E E E E

 

4 hours ago, Sintag said:

Okay, obligatory snarking aside, Ballistas do need a major buff to accuracy so it feels like we're being sniped, not told 'oh hey, Tenno, here's some free Affinity.'  It's almost hilarious how much of a non-threat they (and their Corpus equivalents, when they're not spawning tazerbots Ratels are.

Bombard rockets could do with losing the target if we get past it.

Ramparts could also do with a health nerf, but then they'd go down too fast if we were the ones behind them, so it's a double-edged sword.

Whatever Kraken the Seeker's using, I want it.

Elite Lancers also block a ton of punch-through and are designed to "encourage" you (read: practically force you) to stay in the air and fire on them from above.  Maybe give them two shots instead?  Lower their fire rate?  I dunno.

I bet that the Seeker have a riven with +800% damage, otherwise I can't explain how powerful they are, and the Kuva Shield Lancers are like

Marelok Saltytis

• +1000% damage
• -80% spread (or) +30% base status chance (the slash procs on that thing...)
• +100% fire rate
• -max ammo

I didn't thought about that with the Elite Shield, it is also not viable to melee them since if the weapon hits the shield first, the damage is completely nullified so it's really tricky, so yeah you're forced to shoot them in the air.

I agree with these ideas that you gave, although I don't think the health nerf on the rampart would be that bad, the damage is fixed after all and over level 30 it kills nobody, only the Grineer can make it deadly against us so removing the extreme health scale and making them vulnerable on the front would be really helpful, or even better, the Ramparts have a sort of bullet proof glass so it would be nice if we could break that and kill the Grineer riding it with headshots.

[Twilight-Knight]

- Ballistica :

I do see this unit are quite zero threat, but I'm disagree the unit should have deal huge or more damage they currently have. And they should fix the bug, ballistica have 50% of their living time aiming the gun down to the ground and fire while running yet their laser sight still percisely pointing to their target.

- Seekers:

Yeah they are more lethal at close range, with sortie enhancement lv 100 can blast almost all warframe with 1 single fire if that warframe does not a tank or have proper tank build.

While their rollers does nothing since you roll a lots and they deal very small damage.

- Bombard :

As you saying they should be more like turks bombard but need reduce a small amount of damage. Laser sight warning - fast flight yet inaccurate like ballistica aim.

- E.Lancer Shield :

This is a prove of the game's future going to a black hole. Result of many current players think they are good and complaining the game don't have the challenge, and for the worse the current developers made this crap out.

This unit obviously too dangerous if you don't pay attention at high level, they deal damage that can very much crit hits, instant kill shot. While they carring a shield can't be penetrate.

And for all grineer shield units: they can't be stagger by melee of any type and immnue to damage by those swings if it hit the shield unless it's slam hit, not make any senses when you swinging a hammer right at their face even to a shield.

- Flame throwers :

Well they've been always fine but they are not when you are out of shield, worst in nightmares. And now with  heat effect buffed, the old cat ladies with their molotov are way too deadly just almost as the wolf's pack even with this warframe revisit. I don't want to see the pack with the wolf when I summon him out nowaday. 9k hp well armored inaros must be running off his ass or nidus instant die with his link to nox.

Suppressor doing right with their name and they are doing well in their roll.

- Kuva Shield Lancer :

Yeah, Rhino's absorbed ferrite armor is only help you out a portion.

- Ramparts:

Oh yeah, most of proper players are long gone or they just hardly care anymore so that's why your post doesn't really have people interest.

 

BTW: to those who just say use tank warframes ? ok but if you include Rhino in it ? you're just still are a mr 5 below.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Twilight-Knight

[SpringRocker]

On 2020-05-11 at 12:59 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

no matter how many times she shoots, or how close you are, she'll always miss

She's more accurate the further away she is.

[Mados.sys]

On 2020-05-12 at 5:02 PM, Twilight-Knight said:

- Ballistica :

I do see this unit are quite zero threat, but I'm disagree the unit should have deal huge or more damage they currently have. And they should fix the bug, ballistica have 50% of their living time aiming the gun down to the ground and fire while running yet their laser sight still percisely pointing to their target.

Well I'm not saying that their damage should be boosted, they are just as strong as the Seeker or even weaker since the Seeker has bursts, what I would recommend is making her more accurate and avoidable if you dodge or stay in mid air, them not being able to hit you when you stay right a meter away from them is laughable.

 

17 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

She's more accurate the further away she is.

Yep, they can only hit you from long distances and when you're closer, she becomes less accurate... that doesn't make sense, it should be on the other side, more accurate when you're closer, less accurate if you're far away, especially if you're actively moving.