Rogue-like game mode - Providing a "endgame" experience where skill and knowledge matter more than loadout

[lukinu_u]

So, with the recent Pablo Alonso interview on Quite Sallow channel and talks about difficulty goals and issues, something really important popped out : devs are aware the game is really unbalanced but it can't be fixed easily because of popular player demands (avoid nerf, asking for power creep, etc...). This may not sounds important but it make a big difference, because devs are willing to make big changes to the game and provide interesting challenge if most of the players really want it.

The big issue is most of players are fine with their overpowered gears and don't want those changes, so it's difficult to bring difficulty by balancing gears, which lead to this idea (which was briefly mentionned in the interview) : A rogue-like game mode.
This may sounds like a vague idea, but I honestly think it would be the best possible endgame Warframe could have, let me explain why.

1] - So first, what are the goal ?

• Avoid a single obvious meta :
  Biggest issue with "hard content" in Warframe is the building of an obvious meta every time a new content is released. With a rogue-like game mode, you won't be able to rely on prebuild loadout and will be forced to understand what you are doing and adapt to what the game provide you in each session to be efficient.
   
• Reward player skill and knowledge rather than loadout :
  It's almost the same point as above but not exactly. More than destroy meta, here the idea is to reward the player knowledge to find alternatives, and skill to use the efficiently.
  For example if wanting a damage buff like Chroma, your knowledge might let you know Mirage, Rhino or Octavia could do the job.
  As for the skill, it may let you use Argon Scope instead of Point Strike, while less skilled players who can't land headshot would be stuck with no crit chance even if getting Argon Scope.
   
• Easier data gather :
  With randomdly distributed stuff, gathering data to rebalance stuff become much more easier, because it make comparison between "bad" weapons and mods much easier.
  In the current situation, most people would use Rubico or Lanka if they need a sniper, but in the rogue-like game mode, what if the closest thing to a sniper they got in Latron/Paris, which one would they use ? Which one provide the most benefits ? is the most used overall ? is the strongest even if not used that much ?
  Overall, it help comparing differents warframes, weapons or mods in situations rather than the actual "X weapon is theorically better than Y, but anyways I will use Bramma".
   
• Keep a sense of progression :
  From what Pablo said, a sense of progression and power fantasy is something important to keep in Warframe. To keep this in a rogue-like gamemode, the idea is to drop only stuff your mastered and mods you own, so even in this gamemode you feel some progression and you play the rest of the game and it really feels like some kind of endgame that encourage going back after farming for more gears.

Keeping these 4 ideas in mind, the game mode would be a challenge that require skill, adaptation from players as long a playing the main game to gather gears and play this mod efficiently. On top of that, it can help devs to gather specific datas on warframes or weapons that would otherwise, not be played enough to gather any data.


2] - That being said, what exactly is this game mode ?
As stated above, this is a rogue like game mode, so the idea is to stay as long as possible in a randomly generated succession of missions/rooms. Here is how it would work :

• You begin with the starter loadout of your choice (Excalibur/Mag/Volt, Mk1-Braton/Mk1-Strun/Mk1-Paris, Lato/Mk1-Furis/Mk1-Kunai and Skana/Mk1-Furax/Mk1-Bo).
   
• You will start in a random mission type (more detail laters) and will have access to the arenal to tweak your loadout at the end of each mission before starting the next one. The mission level and requirement gradually increase as you progress.
  Before starting the next mission, you will be able to choose between 2 missions type including the following :
  • Extermination (30 to 300 enemies)
  • Survival (2min30 to 7min30)
  • Defense (1 to 5 waves)
  • Mobile defense (1 to 3 defense objectives)
  • Capture (1 to 3 targets)
  • Excavation (1 to 5 excavators)
  • Spy (1 to 3 terminals)
     
• During missions, enemies will randomly drop Warframe/weapons you mastered and mods you own. To encourage players owning everything and giving a sense of progression tyied to the main game, the drop won't actually depend on what you own. For example, a specific enemy has a 100% chances to drop a weapon which is either a Marelok or Vasto, if you only have a Vasto, the sad enemy will have 50% chance to drop a weapon (since you can't drop the Marelok).
  Another way to see it, is an enemy would have a set drop including everything, but you won't be able to pick what you don't master/own.
  This way, mastering/owning more gears is purely beneficial as it simply open more choice to the player : you probably won't use the Hind, but it's still an additionnal free choice if you own and drop it there.
   
• Each 10 missions, you won't have choice between 2 missions types and will be forced into assassination. Unlike other missions which are random, bosses are set and always the same for everyone. I don't have a specific order in mind but it could be : Star Chart order > Exploiter Orb > Teralyst > Ropalolyst > Gantulyst > Profit Taker Orb > Hydrolyst.

3] - Big changes and systeme to reduce randomness impact.
Randomness in drop is good to encourage players to adapt and discourage meta, but too much can be harmful. For example getting a Ignis as first weapon while someone else get Aklato is clearly unfair and dscourage playing because luck become a too impactful.
To avoid this, here are a few things that would take effect into the rogue-like mode to reduce the impact of luck and make it fair for everyone :
 

• Weapons and mods drop are based on set tiers, so sa same enemy will drop weapons of the same overall power. There could be something like weapons 4-5 tier, while mods drop would simply depend on rarity and type. A specific enemy could for example, drop common warframe mods, or rare pistol mods.
  For example secondary weapon tiers could be something like :
  • Tier 0 : Aklato, Bronco, Kraken, Lato, Lex, Furis, Kunai, Seer, Stug, Sicarus, Viper
  • Tier 1 : Hikou, Gammacor, Akbronco, Ballistica, Sonicor, Castanas, Cestra, Despair, Aklex, Afuris Angstrum, Akzani, Nukor, Spectra, Vasto,
  • Tier 2 : Kulstar, Kohmak, Twin Vipers, Twin Gremlins, Brakk, Detron, Azima, Plinx, Zylok, Atomos, Fuilai, Hystrix, Dual Cestra, Acrid, Bolto, Marelok, Stubba, Cycron, Akjagara, Akarius, Akvasto, Akstiletto, Ocucor, Pandero, Talons, Spira
  • Tier 3 : Embolist, Aksomati, Akbolto, Quartz, Pox, Tysis, Twin Rogga, Twin Grakatas, Knell, Arca Sisco, Magnus, Staticor, Twin Kohmak, Zakti, Dual Toxocyst, Akmagnus, Pyrana, Euphona Prime
     
• Warframes and weapon variant wouldn't naturally drop, instead some specific enemies would drop "Upgraders" which let you select a weapon and upgrade it to the variant of your choice.
  This would greatly reduce the number of weapon drop (about 32.9% of them are variants), as long as giving more control over what weapon you want to upgrade since the weapon drop is already random.
   
• The modding system would be sighly different, items have infinite mod capacity and mod rank increase by 1 for each successful "mission" you play with them equiped. I'm not sure yet how it will affect player experience, but it might bring some interesting way of modding to safely play while leveling mods. For example you have trouble transitionning from a specific mod to its Primed variant because you will have to gradually level up and loose power in the process while leveling it.
   
• You can fuse 3 unwanted Warframes/weapons/mods into a random one. You can also converted an unwanted duplicate Warframe into an augment mod for the said Warframe.
   

This probably need some tweaks and play tests to balance, but overall this game mode would provide a really unique experience than rewards skills and knowledge while being an intesting way to gather game data, and possibily the only endurence run that provide some difficulty to experienced players who already have their favorite loadout min-maxed.

[Magus_Tahir]

I certainly thought that would be very interesting and under the right circumstances very fun in groups or even solo. Hoping when the next time they do a survey for player feedback they list game modes like this as something to get feedback on.

P.s. Id also say add this to mission feedback section. Cheers! o/

Edited May 21, 2020 by Magus_Tahir
Added P.s.

[(XBOX)calzonesrotos]

I like this, it has some dungeon vibes, where you make yourself stronger by defeating enemies rather than spending hours looting resources, I really hope they put this into the game!