Question About Statements By De

[Masterchops]

You guys realize that some people don't play Warframe through steam correct?

[Blatantfool]

You guys realize that some people don't play Warframe through steam correct?

 

 The OP acknowledged that. Doesn't matter. A sizable portion of the playerbase does use steam.

[Xehanoth]

You pay money to get a ton of discounted plat and some swag. Nowhere on the package does it say your feedback will suddenly matter more.

 

 To be honest, I prefer it that way. DC doesn't have the best track record when it comes to picking for the community.

Pretty sure I remember seeing something along the lines of "help shape warframe's future!" on the advertising for founders packs. Course, I could be wrong as I usually don't pay attention to things like that.

[waaaaaaaals]

To be honest, I prefer it that way. DC doesn't have the best track record when it comes to picking for the community.

Makes me wish they'd run a program where they do some work with hand-picked artists, writers, people with exceptionally creative ideas and so on by the departments who are relevant to those subjects.

Giving people with the talent and skill the chance to make a real difference to the game.

[Blatantfool]

Pretty sure I remember seeing something along the lines of "help shape warframe's future!" on the advertising for founders packs. Course, I could be wrong as I usually don't pay attention to things like that.

Everyone says that in their pitch. I can't even remember a time that it wasn't part of the pitch.

Regardless - what that is directly referencing the the Design Council. Once in a while they vote on something and it happens. That does technically qualify as 'shaping the future'. But as far as feedback is concerned it is all equal here. What you say is just as good as what I say or what some Grandmasters says.

Hell, I actively ignore Founders status these days. It doesn't actually change anything when I'm playing my part of the forums.

Makes me wish they'd run a program where they do some work with hand-picked artists, writers, people with exceptionally creative ideas and so on by the departments who are relevant to those subjects.

Giving people with the talent and skill the chance to make a real difference to the game.

In a perfect world that'd be really easy to set up and make happen.

[FateZero]

If you're just now reading parts of my post after you already tried responding to it, I would request that you go back and read it in its entirety before you go any further.

 

You clearly put a lot of faith in gaming sites who, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, use each other as sources without verification or fact-checking. Again, I am interested in a first-hand source of information. DE is a first-hand source, as is Steam.

 

Are you suggesting that words are not what they mean? If they meant players, why not say players? If they meant user, why not say users? You are reading what you want to see from that statement, rather than what they are actually saying. Being a fan of a baseball team does not mean you play for that team, or even play the sport at all, does it?

 

Please try to restrain yourself from projecting your own biases here; as has been stated numerous times I would like to keep this effort accurate and factually based, rather than relying on hearsay and opinions/feelings.

Editing your post after I have read it does not merit me to reread, I don't expect people to reread my post after i edit them and I don't expect responses based on my edited post. (Does not refer to the first post, I did not read that completely, my bad, however I have read every other post so far and responded based on what I saw at the time, not what you edited in afterward)

 

I guess I could ask you the same, do you have first hand data to disprove it? Like DE or Steam? All I saw is the amount of people that actually play regularly, not to mention it always drops after a the spike after a major update, nothing about how many account/fans/user/ whatever the term you want to use DE actually has. The term used is like language, there are many that look, spelled, and/or sound different but mean the same in general if used in the correct context.

 

I see your baseball fan and raise you the question, where did the number 1, 3, 4 million come from? Out their &#!?

 

I'm trying to give you what I think, that's the point of starting a topic on a public forum, if you want facts and solid answer then PM someone that works at DE that might have the answer or better yet send a letter or e-mail to DE. Why post on a forum if you're not expecting people's opinions. Again this is the internet.

 

"To each their own" and "That's it folks"

Edited October 14, 2013 by FateZero

[Kinderghast]

So transparent that the players have to datamine to find out about ninjanerfed drop tables, and so interactive that they pay attention only to those who forked over hundreds of dollars and ignore everyone else, no matter how right they may be or good their idea is.

Thanks for that, ive been needing a good laugh.

 

I am a founder and I am getting ignored just as much as anyone else.

 

I may be different in that i don't expect DE to listen to my idea for a new warframe or a new super awesome gun.

 

I just expect them to fix bugs and improve the game - and perhaps in a farming based game provide a way to know where that damn Master Thief mod drops from so i don't feel like I am wasting my time farming where it used to drop

[cyberfirex]

The game has gotten significantly worse since September 19th. In one month the game will launch.

Just pointing out, the game isn't gonna be released in one month. It'll remain in open beta even after PS4 release. It was mentioned in the News and Announcements section.

[theGreatZamboni]

Just pointing out, the game isn't gonna be released in one month. It'll remain in open beta even after PS4 release. It was mentioned in the News and Announcements section.

 

I am a partial reason for that announcement and have reflected my post to match that announcement. I got fed up with everything about this game and left shortly after discussing with Scott that they clarify that the PS4 "launch", be labeled a beta; in an attempt to save their own asses really. Since coming back, I am aware that this is now the case. A lot of stress could have been avoided had they made this clear back in June.

Edited October 14, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[ThisOneIsAnnoyed]

Editing your post after I have read it does not merit me to reread, I don't expect people to reread my post after i edit them and I don't expect responses based on my edited post. (Does not refer to the first post, I did not read that completely, my bad, however I have read every other post so far and responded based on what I saw at the time, not what you edited in afterward)

 

I guess I could ask you the same, do you have first hand data to disprove it? Like DE or Steam? All I saw is the amount of people that actually play regularly, not to mention it always drops after a the spike after a major update, nothing about how many account/fans/user/ whatever the term you want to use DE actually has. The term used is like language, there are many that look, spelled, and/or sound different but mean the same in general if used in the correct context.

 

I see your baseball fan and raise you the question, where did the number 1, 3, 4 million come from? Out their &#!?

 

I'm trying to give you what I think, that's the point of starting a topic on a public forum, if you want facts and solid answer then PM someone that works at DE that might have the answer or better yet send a letter or e-mail to DE. Why post on a forum if you're not expecting people's opinions. Again this is the internet.

 

"To each their own" and "That's it folks"

 

To answer your first question, yes; the data and numbers I posed in the OP all had links or sources from first-hand accounts. A letter from DE, a statement made by Steve, and a realtime graph via Steam. If you didn't see those, you may wish to re-read it. The terms themselves are not vague, only your interpretation of them. Regardless, that's why I asked DE to clarify this.

 

To answer your second question, re-read my OP, because that is exactly what I asked DE at the end of the post, and the entire point to this thread.

 

I'm not asking for your opinion, I stated many times I was looking for first-hand sources of information on the topic. Your opinion is not first-hand to that information. The only thing you could provide is a source or a link to a source that would contain the information being sought after.

 

Simply because this is the Internet does not mean you should just throw away all the norms of research and say, "Eh, it sounds like some people might believe it, it might be the truth so it's good enough for me."

[waaaaaaaals]

In a perfect world that'd be really easy to set up and make happen.

The company I work for runs those sort of outreach programs every few months, of course there are issues (mostly legal ones) but overall it's worth it.

The kids get to have fun and learn stuff along the way, remarkably even people who have been in the industry for years manage to learn a thing or two from the kids, which is a great example of there always being something more to learn and that no industry benefits from stagnation.

It's even got to the point where some of the people who teach at the programs, went to them as kids and decided to pursue it as a career.

[Blatantfool]

The company I work for runs those sort of outreach programs every few months, of course there are issues (mostly legal ones) but overall it's worth it.

The kids get to have fun and learn stuff along the way, remarkably even people who have been in the industry for years manage to learn a thing or two from the kids, which is a great example of there always being something more to learn and that no industry benefits from stagnation.

It's even got to the point where some of the people who teach at the programs, went to them as kids and decided to pursue it as a career.

 

 That is pretty bad &#!.

[NIL0S]

Even with a fraction of 4 million users actually paying for stuff DE should be making buckets of cash. I always wondered how that is so and how at the same time they get to complain about being restrained by very limited resources when it comes to integrating missing core features or fixing fundamental issues. OP gives this another angle.

Also check their livestreams on Twitch, not total channel visits, but max views for a single livestream, far from those millions. Just a thought there.

[ThisOneIsAnnoyed]

Even with a fraction of 4 million users actually paying for stuff DE should be making buckets of cash. I always wondered how that is so and how at the same time they get to complain about being restrained by very limited resources when it comes to integrating missing core features or fixing fundamental issues. OP gives this another angle.

Also check their livestreams on Twitch, not total channel visits, but max views for a single livestream, far from those millions. Just a thought there.

But that's part of the point. Things just don't match up with what we and others are told, let alone what we can see for ourselves.

[tomhrio]

Just the way I like my women.

 

De'd?

[General_Krull]

Isn't it a well known secret that all devs and PR people like to bloat their numbers somehow?

[SanityRobot]

Total accounts is so bogus for F2P games. It's likely more than 200,000 people playing regularly though.

 

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english

 

12,000 concurrent active players today...almost 7,000 as I'm typing this. It's rare for even 5% of total users to be online at the same time.

Edited October 14, 2013 by SanityRobot

[Webly]

It's rare for even 5% of total users to be online at the same time.

Can you educate me as to why that is a fact?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Webly

[SanityRobot]

Can you educate me as to why that is a fact?

 

Because it is?

[Othergrunty]

This reminds me to a thread we had on the APB:Reloaded forum a few months ago when someone noticed that there are facebook advertisments to APB:Reloaded which claim that it has over 3 million registered users.

 

We sat together and looked at the steam player numbers and how how full the servers in each region are regulary and came to the conclusion that APB couldn't have more than a 10,000 active players. Even adding the occasional players and abandoned accounts (especialy since those which were not used for 2 months and had less than 2 hours of playtime got deleted recently) into the mix, made us sure that 3 millions was a complete false number the people responcible for the ad made up.

 

I think this is the same here. Especialy since it's basicly the same number.

 

They used a completely abitrary number to inflate the popularity of the game to make people interested in playing it.

 

However this is common practice and i think it's not worthy of being raged about, it's just a nice joke for us insiders who are more aware of the player numbers. Advertisments are always about inflating things and false claims.

 

NOW however if the advertisment firm they hired or the people in charge for it lie, well i can excuse that, but if the developers themself are lying about ingame things like drop tables, that's an entirely different matter.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Othergrunty

[waaaaaaaals]

They used a completely abitrary number to inflate the popularity of the game to make people interested in playing it.

 

However this is common practice and i think it's not worthy of being raged about, it's just a nice joke for us insiders who are more aware of the player numbers. Advertisments are always about inflating things and false claims.

 

NOW however if the advertisment firm they hired or the people in charge for it lie, well i can excuse that, but if the developers themself are lying about ingame things like drop tables, that's an entirely different matter.

Still shows the developers in a rather bad light, if they're all too happy to mislead potential customers into playing the game then what else are they happy to mislead them about? It sounds like a rather abusive relationship right from the start.

Also things being common practice doesn't make something better, after all, large scaled tax avoidance is a common practice for big companies and that's pretty morally corrupt. It's the "but everybody else is doing it" excuse that really ought to be left in the playground.

[Gekker]

4M accounts. That means from day one until now. People have been creating a total number of 4M accounts. That includes players that are still playing actively today, stopped playing ages ago, never actually started the game for what ever reason and players that have created multiple accounts.

 

It does not necessarely reflect how many active players Warframe has and these numbers do not state anything else on other games or platforms.

 

That number does make sense to me. Especially when comparing it to the Steam stats that shows how many players have been logging in every day. Those are active players! Many players lose interest in f2p games really fast. And don't forget. This is a grinding game where players get active when new content is getting released.

 

It is one of the most famous f2p games right now and apparently the fastest growing one this year.

Remember Planetside 2, Dota 2 and League of Legends are still f2p. They are older but they are still in the marked and people are still creating accounts.

 

 

 

I don't see anything odd here. And assuming that the 4M number is stating "Warframes crafted" is a farfetched assumption and proofless. In the end that wouln't make any sense to me.

 

 

But hey, what do we know, right?

[Kamal965]

The oh-so frustrating "pics plea--wait, no. Photoshopped kthxbai" argument.

 

Here's a tip: Take it at face value and leave it as it is.

[Azure_Kytia]

I'm struggling to figure out what you're trying to say with that analogy.

 

Is it something along the lines of "We want you to provide proof but we'll still call you out as a pesky pesky liar?"

 

If so, eh. You're probably right.

[theGreatZamboni]

Isn't it a well known secret that all devs and PR people like to bloat their numbers somehow?

 

It is more insulting when it is this obvious, even more so when said developers have a tendency to mislead to their playerbase. It is like this: We all are trapped in an asylum where DE is in charge. Let's ignore the real world parallels of what mental wards really are and assume it really is a great place for people to become well. So we are all trapped in here with DE, they keep saying that they are gonna make things better, all while treating us like garbage. If anyone on the outside were to hear about how bad things in here are, there would surely be a riot. Which is curious, because if Total Biscuit or someone of the like were to get a hold of all the screen grabs, the well documented crap we have had to put up with; you bet I could go to any gaming site and there would be an article about how terrible DE really are. Another oddity is how this game has essentially been in full marketing mode since E3, with the developers pretending the game is finished to the press and telling us it is in beta still; what with the ads about content updates on Steam, banners all over the net and all the while we are sitting here on the inside looking outward, feeling confused and betrayed. It isn't out of the norm for companies to lie about numbers, but in this case when it is so obvious, so self evident to the people who actually play the game, it comes off as an insult. Yes I am insulted, this is more than the drop rates and is fairly well documented how bad DE have treated their playerbase. Anyone with the ability to be objective for just a moment would take one look at what we have been putting up with and one overbearing obvious question would come to head: Why are you still torturing yourself? Given the large effort put forward by the likes of you and me in certain cases, in attempts to communicate our dismay; this is evidence we are wanting this game to succeed. It is the mouth breathing players that have the inability to be objective who we are constantly having to repeat ourselves to, quite frequently. All this constructive criticism is out there for DE to see and they say they look at it. To look at or read criticism is one thing, to take it is an entirely different animal.

 

Taking those criticisms seem to be something the folks at DE are inept at, which is sad, because of how great this game could be. This is really the sum of a lot of issues, but when you abuse your lifeblood, censor them; only to turn around and proclaim out the window to passers by that "We are doing great, don't mind the screaming for help", it shows what they think of us. Yes, companies need to do this. But the reasons companies like EA can get away with this is because they are a giant evil machine of death vs. DE; a confused but eager team of talented people who exist in an environment where criticism is treated as "blasphemy" and any attempts to respond to it are labeled "treason". Or this is how I see it. Because DE are not a giant evil death machine, but have made a point to show their faces is something that has made this even more of an insult. It means they took the time to make this a more personal approach to game design, with the livestreams, direct responses. It is this personal touch that makes it harder on us when you say you are done lying, then turn around and do it again. You have made yourself not just a faceless company, but a group of people. When people mistreat each other, but have to see each other every, it just gets awkward. How are we supposed to trust you? When EA screws over millions of people with their Sims City Online-Only bullS#&$ they can get away with it because they are unsympathetic, a heartless entity. When Steve says that drop rates are important, then is caught lying about it twice, that is just sad. Because we cannot blame DE solely as a whole, it becomes the fault of one person. Remember Sheldon's "apology"? It wasn't even an apology, he didn't take the blame, he passed it off to nameless interns. When analyzing that whole debacle with the ClanTech, it seems like the lack of communication from the project lead to his team is what caused the issue, not Sheldon or nameless interns. So we got a non-apology and a bait-n-switch gift of plat to make the less analytical of the community to completely forget the incident. Had there been a proper admittance of guilt, I would have preferred that 100x more than free plat. That, is what makes this whole "4 million players" stuff leave me even more disgruntled. All this talk of needing to communicate better is just that, talk. It is hard to put yourself out there like a majority of DE's staff do, but you have to understand that doing so has consequences. It feels more like a personal betrayal when I can cite a person who we interact with on a regular basis lying to us, only to them play it off like it is nothing. Steve hasn't been on cam since and I can understand why.

Edited October 16, 2013 by theGreatZamboni