Steel Path and Nodes

[Roble_Viejo]

So, as it is now when you select a Node in a Planet you probably have 2, 3 or even 4 different mission types in the same Node, for ex.: 
- Kappa, Sedna: 
  - SPY
  - NEO Fissure SPY
  - KUVA LICH SPY
  - RED VEIL SPY 

Now with Steel Path I suppose it will be added similar like the Types mentioned before. 

So, why not let us Stack them? A Kuva Lich, NEO Fissure, Red Veil SPY in Kappa, Sedna.
Level is stacked of course. 

Doesn't sound cool? 

[CrimsonSpawn]

Many times the syndicate missions are of a different game mode than the node. So they can't be stacked

The only thing you have left is fissure, siphon and lich.... 

Lich missions cannot and shouldn't be stacked. Mainly due to the enemy type and level differences. Plus the objective of lich missions is to either farm murmurs or spawn liches, many players may not want to play or invest relics (especially if they don't have any present). Also, there are a limited number of thralls that can spawn in a mission, usually reaching the limit once mission the objective is reached (not counting capture). Hence, not all that much of incentive to farm relics endlessly, especially if enemy levels start at 50-100. 

Siphon and nightmare missions are viable though but not kuva flood.

However, the game cant just stack every viable game node... it'll have to provide an option to players to choose which they want to stack and which they'd rather do one game mode at a time. This would require an additional UI icon.

However, I think with the steel path, since we'll have to complete the entire star chart... its most likely going to be an option to convert the entire star chart to this mode than providing it at each node.

[xRufus7x]

9 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Many times the syndicate missions are of a different game mode than the node. So they can't be stacked

That isn't beyond changing by either making all syndicate missions match their node type or just make the fused mission use the base mission type.

 

11 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Lich missions cannot and shouldn't be stacked. Mainly due to the enemy type and level differences. Plus the objective of lich missions is to either farm murmurs or spawn liches, many players may not want to play or invest relics (especially if they don't have any present).

Presumably for someone else to get thrown in with you they would have to have access to the same set of missions and chose the combined selection. Also just set the node level to the highest level enemies out of the missions that are being stacked or even add a multiplier depending on the types being combined.

13 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Hence, not all that much of incentive to farm relics endlessly, especially if enemy levels start at 50-100. 

People have been asking for lich spawns to change in endless missions for a while and even if they didn't it would still be useful for non endless mission types.

19 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

though but not kuva flood.

 I don't see why not.

 

16 minutes ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

This would require an additional UI icon.

So like 10 minutes of work? That is a weird thing to call out as a blocker. The  difficult part would be if the game can handle stacking that many side objectives and modifiers on top of eachother since they were not originally designed to be stacked in this way, not the icon. DE has stacked all sorts of crap in their missions before though so I doubt it would be a significant issue.

 

[CrimsonSpawn]

30 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

 Also just set the node level to the highest level enemies out of the missions that are being stacked or even add a multiplier depending on the types being combined.

Very bad idea, fight off lvl 120-140 enemies for a single prime part? when you can get the exact same from lvl 20-40? 

34 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

People have been asking for lich spawns to change in endless missions for a while and even if they didn't it would still be useful for non endless mission types.

No it wouldn't. Endless (exterminate is not endless but also including it here)  lich and relic missions make sense. You have to stay for atleast 5 mins and sustain a certain amount of cc or dps. Add relics and players can farm prime parts to. However, these missions are currently not endless and therefore would be minimally beneficial to stack than play separately. And if you plan to add or multiply enemy levels, then a majority of players are just gonna do them separately, unless rewards scale as well. Non- endless mission types will be disadvantageous to stack as their void variants require you to kill a specific number of corrupted enemy units. Whereas, non-endless lich missions just require you to complete the objectives. Hence, doing these separately would be more efficient as by stacking them. players will have to kill more higher leveled enemies and thus take up more time for the same rewards.

52 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

 I don't see why not.

Again, the higher levels but same rewards.

56 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

So like 10 minutes of work? That is a weird thing to call out as a blocker. 

Talking from a player's experience perspective, not a developers. Have to either go through the process: select a node, then mission type, then which mission types to stack with (really painful if i'm trying to spam a certain node). Or define previously: choose which mission types to stack and which not and then, alter, if a new node shows up where i would prefer to alter mission stacking... just too messy.

Also, did not say it was a blocker or some kind of barrier, just said that some players wouldn't really like the fact that they would have to go through a list of mission types they want to stack and then alter if they feel like doing something else. Especially since warframe is all about constantly replaying a game mode. By increasing the waiting periods between rotations, you just irritate them more.

[xRufus7x]

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Very bad idea, fight off lvl 120-140 enemies for a single prime part? when you can get the exact same from lvl 20-40? 

 

The idea is that you are getting that part plus the rewards from the other mission types, kuva, requieem relics, cracking the relic, syndicate standing, etc. For someone that can handle level 120 enemies that is quite a bit more efficient or interesting then just doing the level 20 version.

 

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

However, these missions are currently not endless and therefore would be minimally beneficial to stack than play separately.

Most mission runs for relics and liches are already short runs. Generally it is a matter of efficiency. Allowing people to farm two things at once is inherently more efficient then forcing them to farm one. This makes non endless content at base more efficient assuming you can handle the level of the content.

 Combine that with endless mission thrall counts resetting rather then just stopping in endless missions and there is now more of a reason to stick those out.

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Again, the higher levels but same rewards.

 

Plus all the other rewards in less time. Go crack a relic and do a Kuva flood back to back. Now compare that time to the amount of time it took you to run just the flood, now compound that across even more options. Each type added increases your time efficiency.

 

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Talking from a player's experience perspective, not a developers. Have to either go through the process: select a node, then mission type, then which mission types to stack with (really painful if i'm trying to spam a certain node). 

This is already a thing and will be on every node once the hard mode launches. We are talking about adding one more option to the already existing list as the standard mission variants would need to be available to begin with on the node you are selecting, which already requires you to go through that menu.

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

Or define previously: choose which mission types to stack and which not and then, alter, if a new node shows up where i would prefer to alter mission stacking... just too messy.

Who says you get to pick? Just have it combine all the available ones.

1 hour ago, CrimsonSpawn said:

By increasing the waiting periods between rotations, you just irritate them more.

By increasing their options for farming multiple important items simultaneously you make players happy. Also that is what the Replay Previous mission button on the stat page is for.

[CrimsonSpawn]

9 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

The idea is that you are getting that part plus the rewards from the other mission types, kuva, requieem relics, cracking the relic, syndicate standing, etc. For someone that can handle level 120 enemies that is quite a bit more efficient or interesting then just doing the level 20 version.

Considering the alternative is doing the missions separately; gaining the same rewards from lesser enemies (will take less time); just stacking missions is not that much of a reward. And its not about how much you can handle, its just about worth. I'm not going to farm higher level enemies unless rewards are worth such.

15 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Most mission runs for relics and liches are already short runs. Generally it is a matter of efficiency.

Not necessary, depends on what the squad is intending... if your trying to farm a specific rare part (then length of run doesn't matter), if your trying to farm radiance (then players will prefer endless).. but yes, if your trying to grab any rare or uncommon parts (then you'll opt for quick capture, rescue, sabotage or exterminate missions)

I somewhat disagree with the short lich runs thing... players will always look for missions with the greatest enemy spawn rate with the shortest duration (for murmrus) this could mean a 5 min defense or survival would be preferred over a capture... Its only when the player is trying to spawn the lich, that they begin to prefer exterminate or capture.

25 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Allowing people to farm two things at once is inherently more efficient then forcing them to farm one. This makes non endless content at base more efficient assuming you can handle the level of the content.

Yes, I agree. But when one mission type is inherently fast because it has weaker enemies... you can't expect to complete it at the same pace when enemy levels are at 100 plus. And the presupposition that if you can handle it... should each player really be capable of fighting off 100 plus enemies for just a prime part?

45 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Combine that with endless mission thrall counts resetting rather then just stopping in endless missions and there is now more of a reason to stick those out.

But we don't have it right now. So why implement something that won't work?, when a preceding condition for its success is not being applied.

53 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

This is already a thing and will be on every node once the hard mode launches.

Well no, its not a thing, you can directly select relic, siphon, flood, arbitrations, syndicates, invasions and alerts... you don't have to go towards a single node and choose which game mode you want to play.. the only exception being nightmare missions. And no, they're not gonna make the option available at each node for hard mode... they'll be a mastery icon on the side of the screen that lets you switch between the steel path and normal mode, that's implemented across the star chart.

59 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

We are talking about adding one more option to the already existing list as the standard mission variants would need to be available to begin with on the node you are selecting, which already requires you to go through that menu.

Its not one more option.. its one more option per the number of possible stacks. Suppose you have a syndicate, relic, siphon and nightmare on one node. You would have to add a syndicate and siphon match, [syndicate ; relic] [syndicate ; nightmare] [syndicate ; relic ; siphon] [ syndicate ; relic ; nightmare] [syndicate ; relic ; siphon ; nightmare] [relic ; siphon] ...... you can see why this will be troublesome. And if you try to solve this by saying that we'll stack all or only a select few... your going to upset many players who can't handle this content; your going to force certain missions to sync, that just don't and you'll upset players whose desired select stacks were not implemented.

1 hour ago, xRufus7x said:

Who says you get to pick? Just have it combine all the available ones.

ohhhh boy.... what'll happen when a mastery rank 7 player can't complete a node because its forcing him to play a relic, flood and syndicate at the same time.... now imagine this player also has to to do a lich mission alongside all these? And what about players who want to rank up their equipment but have to wait for an hour.. because there's an arbitration and relic going on helene? What if players just want to spam a capture node for prime parts but there's a flood going on as well? what if a player with a lich on them, wants to complete some of his syndicate missions but doesn't want to do a lvl 120 defense?... you can't just force players to either take none or all.

1 hour ago, xRufus7x said:

By increasing their options for farming multiple important items simultaneously you make players happy. Also that is what the Replay Previous mission button on the stat page is for.

Yes, but if players realize that getting these parts separately, as opposed to simultaneously, is more easier, secure and faster. They'll stop using your newly added game structure and it will eventually end up dead. Kuva flood will not work with lich or relic missions, because what happens when a lich shows up or enemies become corrupted and start attacking the siphon? If the lich procs radiation or the lvl 120 corrupted enemies start attacking it? Sure... with a proper recruited squad, it will be cake walk. But, then only proper squads and metas can clear these nodes.

Why will you be using the replay button on a stacked syndicate, relic and lich mission you just played? When the syndicate and lich (rank 1-4) mission gets cleared after one rotation. And if your intention is to just replay void fissures, then it would be better to pick an endless or spam one node. And if your trying to get multiple rewards (murmurs, prime parts, syndicate standing etc.) then you'll be forced to physically look for these stacked missions, and since these are not replayable.. you'll have to look for them again after each mission. Increasing the time between missions, causing irritability.

Adding every single possibility of a stack, at each node, would be too clustered and adding a single stacking of all missions to everyone would be unfair. Each player will have to specify which kind of stacks they want to play and which they'd rather not from a very long list. And then, you'll also have problems with recruiting.

2 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

farming multiple important items simultaneously

Listen, the answer to decreasing the grind is not to join all missions and it's not because it would be unfair to newer players; its would just help by a fraction of a percentage. There are better ways of coupling different resource and parts farms. Such as getting a resource converter and even the steel path... if they decided to couple it with void fissures... you can get prime parts, focus farm and even rank up some weapons. But not all systems are compatible with one another and event those that are compatible cannot be organized and implemented in a player friendly way.

[Rhino-netlost]

I suggested a similar "multitasking feature" to the one in this thread: Mission Mods. Add a Mod to your Orbiter, and the next mission you select will have greater rewards, in exchange for higher level enemies. Add multiple Mods, and the difficulty keeps increasing, but so will your potential rewards. Liches, opening Relics, gaining Relics, Kuva, Plains of Eidolon standing, etc.

A single Mission Mod would be perfectly manageable with the gear of anyone who's completed the star chart. A full set of 8 Mission Mods would be enough to satisfy the cravings of any player demanding Hard Mode to skyrocket them to 9,999 against Corrupted with Increased Enemy Armor, Low Energy, and Secondary Weapons Only.

Though, I came up with this while still knowing that DE would never do it. Warframe is a free-to-play game, and their tried-and-true strategy for extracting money from people is time.

When the drop tables are public, they really need timers to make up for it. Time is the reason why Warframe keeps you coming back while still making you seriously consider spending Platinum, because Warframe wastes your time with mission objectives on timers, enemy spawns on timers (Void Traces, Glassmaker, Kuva Thralls), crafting on timers, Eidolons on timers, fish on timers, powerful Login rewards which are just 24 hour timers, Invasions and Alerts on timers, Baro Ki'teer is on a timer, all events are on timers, and most clearly of all, Sorties are on timers.

They only did Nightwave and its token system out of desperation. People always stopped playing due to the difficulty in getting any amount of Nitain Extract, AKA Alertium. And they'll only ever throw us another bone like that when they see a mass exodus over more of their number manipulations - like how they only fixed Railjack when they realized that nobody was having fun shooting at bullet sponges for an hour straight before caving in and removing the hitpoint-timegate from what was supposed to be an exciting dogfight mode that they passionately spent forever on.

And they still made Railjack take a ridiculous amount of time when they nerfed Boost into the dirt. How painful.

Also, the hardcore audience is unlikely to actually leave, anyways - they're here because they're addicted despite the lack of hardcore gameplay.