Warframe: Very Close To Pure P2W

[Scyfle]

This reminds me of the WarZ forums.

"ITS NOT P2W ITS JUST DIFFERENT AND YOU DONT UNDERSTAND IT"

There's a difference, WarZ is an absolute scam, Warframe has been DE's dream game.

I have not spent a single cent (yet) on Warframe, but I can play just fine (weapons filling up slots? two or three were ones I was gonna throw away anyway).

And the respawns, four respawns per frame per day is more than plenty, you'll never need to use them all up unless you were playing recklessly or against enemies with levels much higher than yours.

Well, it seems that Mr. Valandras has not said anything in this thread since his that post.

I'm guessing he denies that this game can't be put on extra-easy mode.

Go play Castlevania on the NES, then come back.

[Zonzai]

irrelevant bullS#&$

Again, you totally miss the point. I'd say it again but you seem to be a zealot that is not going to get it with any amount of repitition.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Zonzai

[Vant]

to be honest i feel like the 50 plat you give in the start is enough to let us play the game for a good 3 weeks, and then if we want the slots and orkin catas and reactors to power up to beat harder levels, 20$ on the founder pack will get you ALL you need

[SoulEchelon]

Again, you totally miss the point. I'd say it again but you seem to be a zealot that is not going to get it with any amount of repitition.

Heh, you didn't read my post at all. Either that, or you didn't understand it. If it's the latter, don't skim it and actually -read-. Calm your anger and your oddly hurt feelings over statements that weren't meant to hurt and weren't even hurtful in the first place. Everything I stated was completely relevant to your post.

Now, if all you can do is just insult people who have a differing opinion than yours, then just don't answer. To quote one of my favorite actors: "I'm too old for this sh--."

Edited February 23, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Beeman]

Just throwin' my opinions into the mix, you can ignore 'em all you want.

Warframe is fun. Really fun. I love playing it with my buddies and if I find the money before march 16th, I'm definitely getting a founder's pack(either master or grand master...probably just master, though 'cause I'm broke DX ).

I feel this game has fantastic potential and every time I load up a mission, I'm reminded of so many other games I've played. So many fond memories.

That said, I don't really get a pay-to-win vibe from this game. Though all of the prices for warframes, weapons and such are pretty outrageous.

What I've noticed in free-to-play games is that...if you offer reasonably priced cosmetics...so long as there's good variety of styles and colors and not too expensive, people will buy that stuff up almost endlessly. But when you start charging high prices for cosmetics or even convenience items, people start to feel more and more ripped off even if they never intended to spend money on the game anyways.

Lower the cost, increase the number of sales dramatically. This not only applies to mictrotransaction-based convenience or cosmetic items, it also applies to retail products as well. Every time Steam has a big holiday sale, thousands upon thousands of people start buying up games that're 75% off. When World of Goo was offered at whatever you felt like paying(even as low as a penny) the dudes who made that game banked over a million dollars in like a week!

Basically, so long as you're making quality content(which you have, thusfar) and making it very inexpensive to buy your microtransaction junk, people will basically throw money at you. Many people will even drop money on stuff just as a thank you and you can bet that they'll have a friend or two to play the game with(who might even spend money on it as well).

Lower your prices and everybody wins :D (and what better time to market test various price points than closed beta? ;) )

[UkyoSonoda]

Wait? Getting bonus revives past 4 for a single frame in a day as being platinum only is an issue? IMO unless you keep jumping in over your head solo or in teams with pricks that don't revive team mates 4 revives period should be plenty.

[krell1983]

I played games like vindictus and word of tanks and spend money on those games. Way to much on vindictus ;)...

I think warframe model of free 2 play is bad. Game feels like pay to progress or free demo.

I'm playing week now have 0 Orokin Cristal and 0 Rectors and i done more then 10 alert missions... And other thing getting warframe bluprints it way too hard i killed one boos more then 25 times now and only have one bluprint.

This is one of those games that i try for few days and see that they try to milk me for my money.

Game play is fun but i don't like pay to progress.

[RossRam]

I played games like vindictus and word of tanks and spend money on those games. Way to much on vindictus ;)...

I think warframe model of free 2 play is bad. Game feels like pay to progress or free demo.

I'm playing week now have 0 Orokin Cristal and 0 Rectors and i done more then 10 alert missions... And other thing getting warframe bluprints it way too hard i killed one boos more then 25 times now and only have one bluprint.

This is one of those games that i try for few days and see that they try to milk me for my money.

Game play is fun but i don't like pay to progress.

One word - noob !!!

[Deucalian]

I played games like vindictus and word of tanks and spend money on those games. Way to much on vindictus ;)...

I think warframe model of free 2 play is bad. Game feels like pay to progress or free demo.

I'm playing week now have 0 Orokin Cristal and 0 Rectors and i done more then 10 alert missions... And other thing getting warframe bluprints it way too hard i killed one boos more then 25 times now and only have one bluprint.

This is one of those games that i try for few days and see that they try to milk me for my money.

Game play is fun but i don't like pay to progress.

They've already increased drop rates because you all cried about them. They also literally JUST had an Orokin Catalyst alert. You've only been playing a week soo...no. When you had to farm Jackal for DAYS because he didn't want to drop that ONE Helmet blueprint, then you can talk.

[WolfySoul]

Seriously, each topic like this is pointless... Every time I read this nonsense, people crying about "pay-to-win" and so, I feel like none of the players EVER played the F2P game and they expect that F2P means "we get everything for free". As for now, I think Warframe's DEs created everything to help people NOT to spend real money (which is really great and I'm thankful to them) and you still keep crying about platinum and real money... Don't be cheap, 5 or 10 bucks a month is not such a big sum, I'm pretty sure most of people spend it on cigarettes or coffee every day... You are just making noise of nothing. DEs will never make a game unprofitable, so raging about "pay-to-win" is pointless.

[RossRam]

Seriously, each topic like this is pointless... Every time I read this nonsense, people crying about "pay-to-win" and so, I feel like none of the players EVER played the F2P game and they expect that F2P means "we get everything for free". As for now, I think Warframe's DEs created everything to help people NOT to spend real money (which is really great and I'm thankful to them) and you still keep crying about platinum and real money... Don't be cheap, 5 or 10 bucks a month is not such a big sum, I'm pretty sure most of people spend it on cigarettes or coffee every day... You are just making noise of nothing. DEs will never make a game unprofitable, so raging about "pay-to-win" is pointless.

they are always some who will cry however the game is...you should watch this

Everywhere are this stupid whiners...if I was moderator...i would deleted/close all this pointless topics and give RO for it...

Edited February 23, 2013 by Dansilent

[Oktalz]

First things first, the game has huge potential. The gameplay is great, the combat is fast, frenetic and fun.

Its looks nice, and is actually well optimised for a beta.

Customisation is again great. Deep and complex, lots of options for builds and tactics.

Aaaaaaand then the "micro"-transactions show up, and things nosedive rapidly.

Its easy to argue that everything is "optional" and that nobody needs to buy anything to progress, and its true. As far as I know, the devs are going for "Pay-to-Shortcut" instead of "Pay-to-Win".

But £20 for a frame? Platinum sale options that go up to £100 (which should in itself tell you everything you want to know about Warframes "F2P" model). And the worst, most scummy kick in the teeth for free players I have ever seen (outside of maybe SW:TOR);

Pay 4 Respawns.

Wow. Just wow.

I disagree to a certain extent. The respawn payment being the biggest part I disagree to. First off even without any respawns left you can still play, get revived and so forth. Respawns reset within 24h if you are so bad that you actually die and use up all 4 in 1 day.

My only concern and still Im not 100% annoyed abou it, IS as follows. DE forces you to purchase SLOTS for additional frames and weapons. THATs the ONLY force here. Catalysts and Reactors drop frequently enough if you play enough. Much like raiding in an MMO. You get the stuff you want if you are commited.

The slots for frames and weapons are the only things you are forced to buy for IRL currency if you are like me and want all the frames and weapons that are released. As a founder I am already commited to this game, I want it to prosper and as such I buy slots for my frames and weapons.

That is about the extent of it.

Feel free to disagree.

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Edited February 23, 2013 by Oktalz

[Valandras]

Well, this thread went places in a hurry. I think I need to clarify some things:

I LIKE this game. Its intensely engaging, the combat is utterly addictive (sending things flying with my BO staff is now my favourite thing ever) and the devs seem like really nice people.

But I feel I have to point something out to you Masters and Grand Masters out there; you are NOT the demographic that will make or break this game. Dont get me wrong, I'm not insulting you (though your elitist "L2P n00b" attitude doesnt help matters), but you have already commited yourselves to the game. You've bought the Master founders pack, and maybe even some platinum. As far as you're concerned, you wanted to support the devs with a founders pack. You did, job done, you've done your part, good for you. Buts lots of you are talking about how you "havent had to buy any plat outside the founders pack amounts".

And this is the problem.

As a F2P game, the pre-order VIPs or Founders are never going to be the saviors of Warframe. THAT title will belong to all the newbies, noobs, rookies, plebs, trolls, inferior-people, whatever you want to call them, who will swarm the game when open beta/release day arrives.

And if, like me, the first thing they think is "Jesus christ that platinum stuff is expensive", where do you think the game will end up?

[neKroMancer]

Well, this thread went places in a hurry. I think I need to clarify some things:

I LIKE this game. Its intensely engaging, the combat is utterly addictive (sending things flying with my BO staff is now my favourite thing ever) and the devs seem like really nice people.

But I feel I have to point something out to you Masters and Grand Masters out there; you are NOT the demographic that will make or break this game. Dont get me wrong, I'm not insulting you (though your elitist "L2P n00b" attitude doesnt help matters), but you have already commited yourselves to the game. You've bought the Master founders pack, and maybe even some platinum. As far as you're concerned, you wanted to support the devs with a founders pack. You did, job done, you've done your part, good for you. Buts lots of you are talking about how you "havent had to buy any plat outside the founders pack amounts".

And this is the problem.

As a F2P game, the pre-order VIPs or Founders are never going to be the saviors of Warframe. THAT title will belong to all the newbies, noobs, rookies, plebs, trolls, inferior-people, whatever you want to call them, who will swarm the game when open beta/release day arrives.

And if, like me, the first thing they think is "Jesus christ that platinum stuff is expensive", where do you think the game will end up?

What is expensive?

The only thing that is relevant to progression and limited with platinum is slot. Even if you buy minimal 5 USD package, you got each frame slot for 1.3 USD and 0.5 USD for each weapon slot. Is that really expensive?

[GloranSW]

What is expensive?

The only thing that is relevant to progression and limited with platinum is slot. Even if you buy minimal 5 USD package, you got each frame slot for 1.3 USD and 0.5 USD for each weapon slot. Is that really expensive?

Slots apparently are not that big of an issue since they are pretty cheap.

Orokin Catalysts and Reactors are WAY to rare for my taste, and they are an essential part for everything.

It would be nice if there was a more certain way to gain these, except for Alert Missions (with unknown reward) which already are exceptionally rare.

You do need those, since your equipment will just be garbage without the additional nodes and mod possibilties.

[Zh40]

Well, this thread went places in a hurry. I think I need to clarify some things:

I LIKE this game. Its intensely engaging, the combat is utterly addictive (sending things flying with my BO staff is now my favourite thing ever) and the devs seem like really nice people.

But I feel I have to point something out to you Masters and Grand Masters out there; you are NOT the demographic that will make or break this game. Dont get me wrong, I'm not insulting you (though your elitist "L2P n00b" attitude doesnt help matters), but you have already commited yourselves to the game. You've bought the Master founders pack, and maybe even some platinum. As far as you're concerned, you wanted to support the devs with a founders pack. You did, job done, you've done your part, good for you. Buts lots of you are talking about how you "havent had to buy any plat outside the founders pack amounts".

And this is the problem.

As a F2P game, the pre-order VIPs or Founders are never going to be the saviors of Warframe. THAT title will belong to all the newbies, noobs, rookies, plebs, trolls, inferior-people, whatever you want to call them, who will swarm the game when open beta/release day arrives.

And if, like me, the first thing they think is "Jesus christ that platinum stuff is expensive", where do you think the game will end up?

Good God, you can't even keep track of your own thread.

And I remember you having quite the temper in-game, frequently using all caps to exclaim that someone is stupid or is doing something stupid.

Also, you haven't relented that what you have said in previous posts is wrong. Instead, you are "elaborating" on a completely different topic.

Let me remind you, all of the warframes are different. Paying for one doesn't immediately make you win the game. You can't buy rank. You can't buy the highest powered mods in the game. You ALWAYS have to put forth some effort to enjoy DE's game.

Youre right, some bundles in game are expensive, yeah. But must I remind you, it's barely into beta, and prices are subject to change anyway?

I wasn't always a grand master. And Even though i am now, I still build my own frames, my own weapons. I've camped alerts for catalysts and reactors and blueprints, just like everyone else. You can't say that my opinion is moot just because I have faith in these men and women.

Paying for revives is a staple for F2P. But you know what? You can't keep paying for revives in the middle of the game. You know why? Because they don't want to screw you out of your pocket change, making you think you can beat a level 50 defense mission with a level 10 frame.

WarZ was a fallacy. I'm surprised you fell into that mook-of-a-man's trap, ripping off DayZ and making people pay for S#&$ they didn't need.

I've never said L2P nub LOL, nor have I ever been told that by another founder. In fact, YOU were the one trying to tell me in game how to play my own @(*()$ game. So don't even start pointing fingers.

I'll have you know, games like AVA have you buy guns for 15-20 dollars a pop, real cash. They have gambling games where you can sink 200 dollars of real money into without getting any kind of return. They let you circumvent rank by even letting you buy a fake level for your character. And that game is considered one of the best F2P games for the past couple of years.

[negutivzero]

I don't really understand what's going on here. Are people playing the game enough to see how free it is? Yeah sure catalysts and reactors are rare, but they're permanent power ups.

Respawns recharge every day and they're separate for each frame. You don't ever have to buy them and I don't see why you would need to if you play moderately. The option is there for those who want it. I mean they could just limit you to 4 respawns a day without the option, but unlimited respawns would be silly because then it would no longer be a game.

I recently got a founder's package because of how much I love this game. And really I haven't even gotten that far.

[PeripheralVisionary]

Those free respawns a day.

I don't mind people pay2winning their way through the game, it only bugs me when pay2winning is the only way to win.

[Valandras]

Good God, you can't even keep track of your own thread.

And I remember you having quite the temper in-game, frequently using all caps to exclaim that someone is stupid or is doing something stupid.

WarZ was a fallacy. I'm surprised you fell into that mook-of-a-man's trap, ripping off DayZ and making people pay for S#&$ they didn't need.

I've never said L2P nub LOL, nor have I ever been told that by another founder. In fact, YOU were the one trying to tell me in game how to play my own @(*()$ game. So don't even start pointing fingers.

First of all, to my knowledge I have never even been in the same game as you. I have yet to all-caps a comment in-game (with the exception of one time where I got fed up with Seekers perma-stunning me). As such, I can't have told you how to play "your own game". I havent "fallen into the trap" of WarZ, I just know that games reputation.

So yeah, elitist Grand Master acting like the Warframe community owes him something. Thanks for proving the point.

This is not "your own game". You effectively pre-ordered the collectors edition, and now think that us poorer scrubs should bow down before your superior generosity.

And I stand by my previous statements. Making micro-transaction currency stupidly expensive (i.e. $30 for ONE frame) will kill this game, stone dead. You are NOT the demographic this game needs to survive.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Valandras

[neKroMancer]

First of all, to my knowledge I have never even been in the same game as you. I have yet to all-caps a comment in-game (with the exception of one time where I got fed up with Seekers perma-stunning me). As such, I can't have told you how to play "your own game". I havent "fallen into the trap" of WarZ, I just know that games reputation.

So yeah, elitist Grand Master acting like the Warframe community owes him something. Thanks for proving the point.

This is not "your own game". You effectively pre-ordered the collectors edition, and now think that us poorer scrubs should bow down before your superior generosity.

And I stand by my previous statements. Making micro-transaction currency stupidly expensive (i.e. $30 for ONE frame) will kill this game, stone dead. You are NOT the demographic this game needs to survive.

The point of the game is to earn these frames, not buy them. That's why we have dirt cheap slot and catalyst/reactor. However, you can get all frames for free with some effort. I think the astronomical price isn't really an issue, is it?

[Zh40]

First of all, to my knowledge I have never even been in the same game as you. I have yet to all-caps a comment in-game (with the exception of one time where I got fed up with Seekers perma-stunning me). As such, I can't have told you how to play "your own game". I havent "fallen into the trap" of WarZ, I just know that games reputation.

So yeah, elitist Grand Master acting like the Warframe community owes him something. Thanks for proving the point.

This is not "your own game". You effectively pre-ordered the collectors edition, and now think that us poorer scrubs should bow down before your superior generosity.

And I stand by my previous statements. Making micro-transaction currency stupidly expensive (i.e. $30 for ONE frame) will kill this game, stone dead. You are NOT the demographic this game needs to survive.

Maybe you weren't that guy. That's now irrelevant; sorry.

But, excuse me? Where did i say I expected something from the community? I never said that warframe was my game. I was talking about my game session. Some guy was telling me that I was playing warframe wrong, and that I was stupid and shouldn't be playing the same mission as he. Thanks for twisting my words. I also stated I didn't immediately buy the game, I did plenty of my own bug reports and complaints with the F2P system they had implemented. And that I still play without buying every shortcut to "win," if that's even possible.

You should have clarified that you "just knew the games reputation" before acting like you posted this same topic on their forums and received the same answer, because that's what you made yourself seem to be.

It's never been $30 for ONE frame. Ever. The bundles Run from 20-30, with included weapons and items. The highest costing warframe is actually about $20, which falls in line with my previous statement that there are other F2P games which sell permanent weapons/characters for a similar price.

Also, that's not considered a "micro" transaction. You're actually buying something. The micro transactions currently in place run from a dollar for a revive fill, to 3.30 (50 plat) to circumvent the lengthy building time of a frame, or 1.30 (20 plat) for weapon building.

20 plat is also what is required for a catalyst or reactor. Fancy that. THOSE are the micro transactions which will keep the game going.

I've looked through this forum. I've played with a lot of people. You may THINK that founders are elitist asses, but you seem to be neglecting that there are plenty of people who aren't founders who think you're full of it. There's tons of them, in this thread and others.

[Zh40]

Also, if you're actually going to complain about the transactions in this game, maybe you should rename your misleading topic title; since its already been discussed you can't @(*()$ Pay to Win.

[bptamblyn]

Specced right any frame can take on any level. They need more variety and more strength/weaknesses unique to the class before you can argue from that point.

I'd say you are completely wrong. One of the greatest aspects of this game is the freedom to play however you want. We don't need more games with the holy trinity. We need more games to follow suit and give players the power to make their character how they see fit.

Edited February 24, 2013 by bptamblyn

[UkyoSonoda]

I'd say you are completely wrong. One of the greatest aspects of this game is the freedom to play however you want. We don't need more games with the holy trinity. We need more games to follow suit and give players the power to make their character how they see fit.

Most games have a "meta" of sorts on team or party comps that are ideal not because they're the most effective but because they're the hardest to actually screw up with.

Take FFXI for an example. For years people held to a meta in FFXI for exp parties that was tank, white mage, red mage or bard, black mage, and 2 damage dealers that could make a skill chain. Unless 1 or more members of this comp were complete tools or idiots the party comp would work reliably. However if you wanted really fast exp melee cannon parties that ran 5 melee dd with ninja set as a subjob with 1 bard. However in order for this comp to work at all all 6 members needed to be competent and have gear that is atleast decent.

[FateZero]

I like to think the game has a cash shop instead of micro-transactions. You can buy vanity items, boosters to get get more credit and affinity, colors, and if you want to skip everything, you have the option to get the warframe/weapon you really want without effort, however since there isn't pvp, there's no point in complaining about it, everyone has the same goal, to finish the mission.