The Spotlight's on Titania

[KitMeHarder]

8 hours ago, (PSN)DidelphisV said:

I’ll never understand why people say Dex Pixia are weak.

• Not weak, but they kill mobs (as in the whole mob) too slow
• If she is to be a competitive boss kill, she needs better crit stats plain and simple. You kill bosses with her for the flavor, not because she rivals Chroma.
• There is no reason her accuracy should be that bad

And if you don't have Pistoleer+RW Blitz, she struggles with the steel path IMO. I tested on Sedna Survival.

8 hours ago, (PSN)DidelphisV said:

personally I just wish they’d swap Tribute for something more interesting

50% damage reduction not good enough? Though I'll admit, it's the only one I use with the tedium of targeting enemies.

 

 

[KitMeHarder]

34 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

All space stats were changed to match the ground stats months ago, with the exception of fall off on some of them, and of course recharge vs reload.

Not really, in only one mode does....

• The Velocitus ricochet
• The Grattler have proximity burst
• The Grattler have a 9 meter AoE
• The Corvas shoot pellets instead of a catchmoon projectile
• Etc...

37 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You've been able to collect every buff from a single enemy since they added the wheel.

I phrased that wrong, but are you apposed to my change like the person you're speaking for was?

[nooneyouknow13]

12 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Not really, in only one mode does....

• The Velocitus ricochet
• The Grattler have proximity burst
• The Grattler have a 9 meter AoE
• The Corvas shoot pellets instead of a catchmoon projectile
• Etc...

Those are differences in function, not in stats. The stats are identical. The grattler has 9m radial damage in ground and space, the proximity trigger is it's only difference.

12 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I phrased that wrong, but are you apposed to my change like the person you're speaking for was?

I honestly think the tribute buffs shouldn't exist at all, and tribute should steal an item from the targeted enemy like Ivara's pickpocketing. Your change makes it slightly easier to get the one buff worth using, at the cost of losing an easy ragdoll skill for quick Nox kills. Pretty much a wash to me. Your proposed Dex Pixia changes are insanely overkill when the weapon already easily breaks half a million sustained dps. Companions staying active I'm fine with now that Vulpaphyla exist, but would have been a hard no on before.

On the whole, I feel like you're asking for buffs to solve build issues.

[KitMeHarder]

22 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Those are differences in function, not in stats. The stats are identical. The grattler has 9m radial damage in ground and space, the proximity trigger is it's only difference.

I meant to say the Ayanga has 9m in space, 6m on the ground. Don't look at the wiki, look in game. The Corvas has 1 multishot in space, 11 on the ground. Etc...

And the point still massively stands, from the conversation you quoted. ⬇️

Quote

Archgun stats in space are universal for both Atmospheric and Archwing, with the exception of the larger hitbox projectile on the Velocitus and majority of the Archguns now using projectiles.

--------------------

27 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I honestly think the tribute buffs shouldn't exist at all, and tribute should steal an item from the targeted enemy like Ivara's pickpocketing. Your change makes it slightly easier to get the one buff worth using, at the cost of losing an easy ragdoll skill for quick Nox kills. Pretty much a wash to me. Your proposed Dex Pixia changes are insanely overkill when the weapon already easily breaks half a million sustained dps. Companions staying active I'm fine with now that Vulpaphyla exist, but would have been a hard no on before.

On the whole, I feel like you're asking for buffs to solve build issues.

• Sounds like the most tedious way to get loot in this game yet. And there's no enemy I want to ragdoll in this game, especially one I can (and want to) easily headshot.
• It really isn't. She's slow at mobbing, and she's not even close to being optimal for bossing. In 99% of content she could instakill a mob by looking at it for half a second and she'd still be lacking. It's the same reason finishers are worthless 95% percent of the time.
• Unless you do nothing but Arbitrations and 4 hour long survivals, I tend to want my Smeeta buffs, Adarva crit, Sahasa energy, etc... I get it, vacuum is king, but what a narrow minded viewpoint. 

My builds are fine, the reasons I gave for my changes still stand, and I play Titania probably more than the averge player. Not to mention I understand how this game works at an almost infallible degree, and I know what makes things good for any of the content worth doing.

[nooneyouknow13]

12 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Sounds like the most tedious way to get loot in this game yet.

It's for target farming specific things like war parts. Also, forcing drops from enemies before they die is something only Ivara can currently do, and her version is even slower.

13 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

And there's no enemy I want to ragdoll in this game, especially one I can (and want to) easily headshot.

Ragdoll into a teleport volume is an instant kill for enemies. Far faster than dealing with breaking Nox helms, and no toxin aura to avoid after.

13 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

It really isn't. She's slow at mobbing, and she's not even close to being optimal for bossing. In 99% of content she could instakill a mob by looking at it for half a second and she'd still be lacking. It's the same reason finishers are worthless 95% percent of the time.

She's barely, if at all, slower than Mesa and room clearing if you're using Pistoleer or Munitions. You don't need to keep shooting something that's already got several bleeds on it.

14 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Unless you do nothing but Arbitrations and 4 hour long survivals, I tend to want my Smeeta buffs, Adarva crit, Sahasa energy, etc... I get it, vacuum is king, but what a narrow minded viewpoint. 

Sahasa energy is amazing, but you should never really need it past the start of a mission. Pets get downed constantly. You spend as much time rezing them in high level content as you do actually killing enemies. Smeeta and Adarza buffs just aren't worth the upkeep. They'd die even more often while you were in razorwing, because they'd get all of the proximity aggro, instead of just some of it. You can easily see this already if you take Zephyr into a high level mission and utilize her hover. Like, there's a reason why Inaros is so overused despite being mediocre - he's practically the only way to keep a smeeta alive long term, especially in Arbitrations when you can't even res them. (Or did they finally change this?)

 

Also, if you really need to clear mass mobs faster, if you're host (and you likely will be in any given steel path mission) you can just use a damn fluctus. Energized Munitions+Razorwing Blitz+Fluctus is joy.

[nooneyouknow13]

On 2020-10-30 at 11:31 PM, KitMeHarder said:

Dex Pixia

• Increase the crit chance to 30%
• Convert 60% of the damage into a 4 meter AoE with no falloff

 

First number column is my dex pixia, on live with Blitz+Velocity procced. 647.8k dps. A single stack of viral already pops that over a million. The second column is what Dex Pixia would look like with a 60% radial attack added, and 30% base crit. It's over 2 million dps before status. If your goal is to create an even more powerful version of Khora's whipclaw, it would certainly do that. But Whipclaw is already insanely out of line, and can't be used on most bosses effectively anyway. Dex Pixia work on anything that isn't an arbitration drone or nullifier capture target.

 

Even if you meant cut 60% of the current impact damage off and make that radial damage, the critical chance alone pushes the DPS up to 1.2m, and would still double the rate at which they applied status.

[KitMeHarder]

5 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

She's barely, if at all, slower than Mesa and room clearing if you're using Pistoleer or Munitions.

Thank you for replying, but I'd don't think we can continue this conversation if you truly believe this for any mission except maybe SP grineer. And even then, if I went and tested again, helminth probably makes even there a non-point.

9 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Ragdoll into a teleport volume is an instant kill for enemies.

Very cheesy and worthless if you care about the affinity or drops they have. It's also personally un-fun, and got people banned in the Jovian Concord. Not to mention impractical for many reasons with your Titania example.

12 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Ivara can currently do, and her version is even slower.

If you build for it, it's fast. And in terms of the tedium I brought up, Ivara's is a toggle and I'm immune to aggro.

14 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You spend as much time rezing them in high level content as you do actually killing enemies. Smeeta and Adarza buffs just aren't worth the upkeep. They'd die even more often while you were in razorwing, because they'd get all of the proximity aggro, instead of just some of it.

On average I probably revive my companion once in a Kuva flood, which is like 5 seconds or something. And that's without using my pure tank cat build, and using weak stat-stick frames like Mag often. And with aggro that's only true if you're solo and not using a sentinel.

For Arbitrations IDK why people wouldn't always use a Panzer if you still can't revive.

19 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Also, if you really need to clear mass mobs faster, if you're host (and you likely will be in any given steel path mission) you can just use a damn fluctus. Energized Munitions+Razorwing Blitz+Fluctus is joy.

I'm guessing that's a glitch. And even if that is, that's not Titania, that's a weapon any frame can use (and probably macro reliant). You'd be better off putting it on Harrow.

9 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Even if you meant cut 60% of the current impact damage off and make that radial damage, the critical chance alone pushes the DPS up to 1.2m, and would still double the rate at which they applied status.

That's why I said convert. And leaving my opinion on balance out of it, I feel it's more than justified with the current game. Look at the Arquebex, immobile or not, exalted weapons should have stats close to this.

Status doesn't matter on a lot of bosses, and I believe you did something wrong because the second non crit damage, crit damage, etc... looks off.

And whipclaw isn't, nor has it ever been out of line. The steel path makes it easy to build combo and Accumulating Whipclaw, and people are too Youtuber dependent to know that there are other and even better options since Steel Essence isn't affected by loot abilities. Same with my Dex Pixia, which by your math won't even have double dps.

[nooneyouknow13]

34 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Very cheesy and worthless if you care about the affinity or drops they have. It's also personally un-fun, and got people banned in the Jovian Concord. Not to mention impractical for many reasons with your Titania example.

You still get affinity, and loot is dropped on the nearest ledge, or just repeatedly falls through the teleport volume allowing you to grab it. The bans were from using switch teleport to switch with demolysts, where it was clearly bypassing the intended kill method, and even then, only people who had exploited it for thousand of long mission kills.

34 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I'm guessing that's a glitch. And even if that is, that's not Titania, that's a weapon any frame can use (and probably macro reliant). You'd be better off putting it on Harrow.

It's a bug I've repeatedly report and asked to be a proper feature over the last 18 months that has never been addressed. And Harrow doesn't have Razorwing Blitz for an extra 199% fire rate. I've never needed a macro to room clear with it. It's not at all needed, just incredibly fun.

 

34 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I believe you did something wrong because the second non crit damage, crit damage, etc... looks off.

They're completely correct. They're normal hit damage multiplied by chance to not crit, and crit damage multiplied by chance to crit and crit damage. It's the easiest way to average them since there's no damage variance on rolls. Tripling the base crit effectively doubles the actual damage output.

As for comparing to the Arquebex, well if the wiki is correct about it's base stats (it usually isn't for exalted weapons, people add them without removing power mods), then well, the Arquebex is grossly overpower, and your changes don't even bring the dex pixia close:

 

That's using Necramech Intensify Primed Rubedo Lined Barrel, Dual Rounds, Automatic Trigger, Paralax Scope, Hollowed Bullets, Combustion Rounds, Polar Magazine, and Electrified Barrel. And those numbers are batS#&$ insane. But it's also a turret mode compared to a harrier mode.

And Whipclaw has been extremely out of line since the melee 3.0 changes just randomly let it start benefiting from Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds.  It's out of line compared to virtually all other damage skills by itself, being able to use ensnare to double it and strangledome to distribute it push it far over the line.

 

 

[Bakahung]

3 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

All space stats were changed to match the ground stats months ago, with the exception of fall off on some of them, and of course recharge vs reload.

You've been able to collect every buff from a single enemy since they added the wheel. Not that there's any point, because the only tribute worth anything is Thorns, and only if you spend a lot of time outside of razorwing. 

 

This very much sounds like build issues. Try this: 

Along with building Dex Pixia like this -

Corrosive for Deimos and Railjack:

Viral for Grineer:

Radiation for the Plains:

The attack speed with Velocity and max Blitz is tuned to the duration of Energized munitions, which has replaced tribute for ease of maintaining blitz, and to allow for sustained fire in situations where Pistoleer isn't reliable due to enemy durability, or lack of adds on bosses. Dex Pixia will go from empty to full during the cast of Energized Munitions.

Tenno shield DR sums with damage resistance from mods, which means Aerodynamic and Aviator alone net 89% damage reduction to shields, giving an effective shield value of 2727 with no other investment. Lantern is an effective CC even with only 79% range, provided you tend to stay further from the enemy than the lantern, and you don't put it in a corner with poor line of sight to incoming enemies. Spellbind is used to rapidly stack blitz, and for status immunity preventing "crash fairy" syndrome.

I have a similar build with you , with even more strength and similar survivability.

I have three pixia build that I switch around , which are raw damage , hybrid and pure crit . 

That's not the point of this reply , I just want to say it .

 

I know she is not weak , and Pixia do have a lot of damage , but it's so concentrated , it's not better than using a normal gun .

But I don't want DE to buff Razor wing though , that will just make matter worse , since she will be more focus on her 4 and leave other abilities behind. 

Titania have a bit of everything , but all are lacking other than damage , and her damage is just a slightly stronger normal gun . I don't think this is a good place.

 

And to further reply to your build. I won't doubt your build , but if you need specific arcane and specific mod with specific ability choice to make a frame good , while other good frames can have build variety while still being great , is clear that there is a problem .And I'm not just talking about Mesa or Saryn .

 

[nooneyouknow13]

43 minutes ago, Bakahung said:

I have a similar build with you , with even more strength and similar survivability.

I have three pixia build that I switch around , which are raw damage , hybrid and pure crit . 

That's not the point of this reply , I just want to say it .

 

I know she is not weak , and Pixia do have a lot of damage , but it's so concentrated , it's not better than using a normal gun .

But I don't want DE to buff Razor wing though , that will just make matter worse , since she will be more focus on her 4 and leave other abilities behind. 

Titania have a bit of everything , but all are lacking other than damage , and her damage is just a slightly stronger normal gun . I don't think this is a good place.

 

And to further reply to your build. I won't doubt your build , but if you need specific arcane and specific mod with specific ability choice to make a frame good , while other good frames can have build variety while still being great , is clear that there is a problem .And I'm not just talking about Mesa or Saryn .

 

I mean, mods and arcanes are the gear in this game. Of course builds are better with better gear. And no, no normal gun in the game does more than half of Dex Pixia's potential DPS out. You might clear faster with explosives, and that's fine. But the only thing remotely competing with her single target are snipers with high shot combo, and they're still hundreds of thousands of DPS behind. Titania is, and has always been completely designed around Razorwing. The other 3 abilities have never been more than support to that. Her reworks have just made that more clear.

Other frames are better at chaff clear than Titania. Both those frames don't match her in single target, and usually don't match her in mobility, and often not in survivability either. And that's fine, that means she has an identity - fast, tough high DPS, decent CC. There's plenty of frames that are significantly worse off right now.

 

Also, it's not like the build I shared is the only one, it's just a good general purpose build I'd recommend to anyone having issues, which is why I recommended it. You could totally stick with a Pistoleer build, and infuse Fireblast for armor stripping instead if you really wanted to speed up the ability to mass clear. It's just one way or another you need to optimize around Dex Pixia, or you should be using a different frame. And optimizing for pixia means being able to take advantage of it's massive fire rate, and addressing the ammo consistency.

Edit: Example of my Firefly build

Still takes advantage of high fire rate and nearly unlimited ammo via arcanes, doesn't use Blitz. Replaced Spellbind on this loadout with Fireblast, pairs extremely well with the viral Dex Pixia loadout vs grineer. Primed Surefooted prevents crash fairy. Energy is a bit tighter since there's no energize, so I use a heavy attack zaw rapier with Exodia Brave.

[KitMeHarder]

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You still get affinity, and loot is dropped on the nearest ledge

99% sure that's not the case.

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

And Harrow doesn't have Razorwing Blitz for an extra 199% fire rate.

He has Penance for over 100%, plus bonkers reload speed. But +200% additive crit would make him vastly unrivaled compared to any other frame I can think of at the moment.

But even then the Fluctus doesn't scale well, so IDK how viable it would be anyway.

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

They're normal hit damage multiplied by chance to not crit

Oh, you're using the average damage minus the damage when you would crit. Weird, but ok.

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

then well, the Arquebex is grossly overpower, and your changes don't even bring the dex pixia close:

It's not, it's the only reason anyone would practically use a nercamech (including the new one to come). It justifies having those stats for you being immobile. Titania is very mobile, so she get's less supplemental stats, but an exalted weapon should not have 10% crit or status chance. They are the keystone of the frames, and should be the best in their category. Not just basic crappy weapons that rely on power strength scaling to even remotely be viable.

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

And Whipclaw has been extremely out of line since the melee 3.0 changes just randomly let it start benefiting from Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds.  It's out of line compared to virtually all other damage skills by itself, being able to use ensnare to double it and strangledome to distribute it push it far over the line.

No that's just a good frame. Other psuedo-exalteds could benefit just as much if they didn't have S#&$ supplemental stats. Rarely is it even viable or reliable to use Bloodrush on her. Try running the t5 Deimos bounty with a proper build, I doubt you'll ever get as much damage as a Sacrificial Steel build, let alone comparable dps over the course of the mission. And Splinter Storm, Desert Wind, etc... have plenty comparable (mob)dps to Bloodrush Khora.

P.S. Weeping Wounds isn't even good on her.

12 hours ago, Bakahung said:

But I don't want DE to buff Razor wing though , that will just make matter worse , since she will be more focus on her 4 and leave other abilities behind.

Why wouldn't you want a frame to focus on their exalted ability, that's why you play the frame? Spellbind and Tribute are just meant to compliment her, and they compliment her well. The same way Radial Howl compliments Excal, Desolate Hands Baruuk, etc...

12 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

But the only thing remotely competing with her single target are snipers with high shot combo, and they're still hundreds of thousands of DPS behind. Titania is, and has always been completely designed around Razorwing.

Gunblades. And you're not factoring in that I can use any frame in the game with them, like Chroma, Mirage, Volt, etc...

[Bakahung]

29 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Why wouldn't you want a frame to focus on their exalted ability, that's why you play the frame? Spellbind and Tribute are just meant to compliment her, and they compliment her well. The same way Radial Howl compliments Excal, Desolate Hands Baruuk, etc...

I got my wording wrong , that's me bad.

Which I want to say , is I rather have 4 good abilities , rather than 1 great and 3 bad~Mediocre ones.

I think players will  prefer using fitness and skill , and utilize allpowers to go through levels , than press 4 at the start of mission then forget everything else.

 

Her 1~3 is meant to support her gameplay , I agree with that . But currently they are not doing that much .

[KitMeHarder]

6 minutes ago, Bakahung said:

I think players will  prefer using fitness and skill , and utilize allpowers to go through levels , than press 4 at the start of mission then forget everything else.

Her 1~3 is meant to support her gameplay , I agree with that . But currently they are not doing that much .

IMO

• Status immuntiy
• the 50% DR alone
• And (with my buff) a stationary Resonator

Are more than good enough as support tools. You don't have to cast something as often as Breach Surge, Fire Blast, etc... for it to be a good tool. In fact, duration based abilities that affect more than just the initial group is the preferred type, until you're 4 hours into a survival and ~8 enemies warrant the time and resources to cast Breach Surge.

[nooneyouknow13]

Decided to swap out Lantern instead of Tribute on my Energized Munitions build, swapping Stretch out for Umbral Intensify as well. Tossed Velocity for Precision, which mandated also tossing Magnum force for Primed Heated Charge on all the damage types, and broke 1 million DPS on Dex Pixia. I've also included a 210% Strength Regulators column for comparison here, I wasn't kidding when I said she basically matches Mesa:

Mesa actually starts a tad lower, and can ramp to 2x, but how often does anyone actually stay on the minimum reticle size with Mesa? Also, Regulators can't headshot. Changing the Dex Pixia to 30% base crit at this point puts them to 2.1m dps.

 

So yeah, I'd happily take that longer base duration on Spellbind, but I just don't see the need to improve the Pixia. Fireblast build is amazing for fodder clear anyway.

[KitMeHarder]

7 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I wasn't kidding when I said she basically matches Mesa

I understand that, and I've said it multiple times to you and throughout the thread. She doesn't kill the enemies slow, she kills the entire mob slow.

And Mesa isn't even the best single target frame a lot of the time, she's just really damn good for the mob clear she has.