A Summarization Of Why The War Is Rigged.

[Blackjammer]

Yeah, someone else who failed to read the entire thread.

 

I do seem to recall a discussion on page #2 where I said "Oh, sorry, I had Warbros confused with Broframe".

 

Way to just read ONLY the first post and trip over yourselves reaching to the REPLY button without reading the rest of the thread, eh?

 

I guess asking someone to read more than a few paragraphs is "too much work" for the short attention spans these days (given the whole "tl;dr" crap that goes on these days).

 

See:

 

If it makes you feel any better, Broframes was supposed to go Grineer at well, but have over 1/3 of our points as Corpus.

 

Oh yea, we do like shooting ourselves in the foot :P

 

Edit, 18k Grineer, 7k Corpus.

 

Point 5 is your worst point and it really isn't helping your case. The fact you left it in is asking for trouble, edit note or not.

You shouldn't have needed to target a single clan to get the point across and wild exaggerations further detract from the message.

[Ced23Ric]

The point still applies that 1-3 Clans should not be the deciding factor of the war, either way and a lot of other people agree.

 

But that is not what happened. The Top 16 Moon Clans combined could have taken one 100k node. One. Only if no one resisted. The conflicts were decided by the unnamed masses. And the majority chose Grineer. Why is this so hard to accept?

 

US elections.

Both parties proclaim their allegiance to democracy.

Democrats win.

Republicans: "Your president, not mine!"

 

Democracy happened here. Stop being mad your party lost.

[OrdoCorvus]

Why do I get the feeling that for a lot of you, if you were starving, and someone from DE gave you a loaf of bread, you'd curse them for not making you a sandwich?

[_Shalune]

Alright, all this Warbros vs angry Corpus is sad. Let me make a couple things clear from a more sane Corpus-supporter perspective.

 

We're losing. Event's as good as decided. I'm okay with that. That's why I haven't switched to get Grineer credit. Hell I have no problem at all with the way the clan-side of this event. The problem is that for non-clan leaderboard players there's nothing to lock you to a side. Going strictly off rewards there is no reason not to switch to the winning side before the event ends. All other points aside this all but guarantees that non-clan players will snowball the side that's already winning.

 

To me that's the major flaw with this event's design. To Warbros or any other clan topping the leaderboards for the Grineer. Damned good job. What you're doing is impressive. /salute

[Ced23Ric]

Why do I get the feeling that for a lot of you, if you were starving, and someone from DE gave you a loaf of bread, you'd curse them for not making you a sandwich?

 

I survived weeks on Ramen and Wonderbread. I'd take it. ;_;

 

But I still know it's not good.

 

 

/salute

 

o7

Edited October 28, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[moriginal]

You are just mad you are not in the best clan "Warbros"

Check yourself before you shrek yourself kid.

[MDRLOz]

Ok so people are looking at this from three levels.

1) In-game lore level

2) Player's personal reward level

3) clan goals / reward level

Need to think on level 4) DE level.

Firstly before I start I feel DE has not learned fully from previous events. Communication is still bad and what EXACT DETAILS of the event is. It's like arid fears 'lasts a week' problem again. They should have given some examples of what happens when you do x and get x reward. There is some confirmation on twitter but should be updated to main posts. Also if this event has longer reaching consequences it should this and say they will be revealed after event. Basically if Corpus won this would anything have changed gameplay wise?

Right back to level 4. I am guessing a lot of people don't watch the live streams. The purpose of this event can easily be derived from old live streams. Now to date we have not seen the corpus or the Grineer doing anything "evil" but we slaughter them en mass? Because a voice tells us to! Also the corpus were lacking a face, a front man for people to focus their hate. This event has been a success on giving both factions more character. We have finally seen the Grineer invading and being the evil system wide threat that lotus labelled them with. Also we now have a corpus villain who is nasty. He wants to put you in a box and add you to his collection. He is also going to experiment or mutilate your trapped brethren! So overall this event has pushed lore well and given them more depth and giving us two new looking leaders to focus on. Now hopefully this will lead into some post event effects and future events.

Also separately this whole event is just game testing for a new game mode. Letting us test it and point out faults with it. We already have seen the interface for misson select go through some changes. Also people have helped point out problems with mobs in walls and moas stuck in doorways. These can now be identified and fixed before general release. It is also a test of the new inbox feature that has been providing you rewards. So if yo think in these ways you can see that the mission reward balancing is a silly thing. If this event was just about corpus vs Grineer then each node shouldn't really give battle pay. Only the end of event reward events are needed. However they want people to try the event as much as possible. Hence the silly imbalanced rewards. So overall this event has been a success IMO.

[Taranis49]

 

But that is not what happened. The Top 16 Moon Clans combined could have taken one 100k node. One. Only if no one resisted. The conflicts were decided by the unnamed masses. And the majority chose Grineer. Why is this so hard to accept?

 

US elections.

Both parties proclaim their allegiance to democracy.

Democrats win.

Republicans: "Your president, not mine!"

 

Democracy happened here. Stop being mad your party lost.

 

Uh, if Obama had bribed voters, that analogy would be applicable... incidentally, bribing voters is typically illegal in democracies and bribing the voters is basically what happened here. DE admitted as much on twitter when asked about the reward for the Gradivus node and the whole "Catalyst vs. credits" nonsense, the same holds true of the completed research materials vs. credits absurdity for the first few nodes.

 

Incidentally, I say all this as a Grineer supporter.

 

By the time they tried to rebalance the conflict, it was too little, too late - avalanche already started, too late for pebbles to vote, so forth and so on... it was pretty clear by the end of the first day that the Grineer had the momentum and were going to keep it, despite DE's claims that "oh, everyone's being premature" - people knew which way the wind was blowing, and at that point, the sensible thing to do was join the winning Grineer bandwagon so as to get a free slot/catalyst with their weapon rather than just the BP.

 

Seriously, while I won't attribute malice instead of incompetence to DE here, they've yet to prove me wrong on what I've said during past events "they simply don't understand people". It would've been far better to level the playing field from the get-go, let the chips fall where they may and roll with the punches in trying to create a narrative, rather than basically attempt to script the war in trying to tell their narrative of it (which again, they admitted to)... particularly since the second stage of what they had planned pretty clearly blew up in their faces anyway... As the saying goes, hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Taranis49

[OblivionNecroninja]

Right back to level 4. I am guessing a lot of people don't watch the live streams. The purpose of this event can easily be derived from old live streams. Now to date we have not seen the corpus or the Grineer doing anything "evil" but we slaughter them en mass? Because a voice tells us to! Also the corpus were lacking a face, a front man for people to focus their hate. This event has been a success on giving both factions more character. We have finally seen the Grineer invading and being the evil system wide threat that lotus labelled them with. Also we now have a corpus villain who is nasty. He wants to put you in a box and add you to his collection. He is also going to experiment or mutilate your trapped brethren! So overall this event has pushed lore well and given them more depth and giving us two new looking leaders to focus on. Now hopefully this will lead into some post event effects and future events.

 

Except we STILL haven't seen the Grineer being evil. So the authoritarian (sp?) thugs are oppressing the corporate sadists. And I care because?

DE needs to do a WAY better job of putting the damn lore in the damn game. Expecting us to make decisions based on the Lore without Lore to base decisions on is just stupid.

Edited October 28, 2013 by OblivionNecroninja

[Kibbols123]

 

Reason #2: Rewards.. Reason #1 leads straight into Reason #2 -- because any Clan wanting to try for Leaderboards are locked into whatever they start with.... offering such hugely unbalanced rewards at the very beginning doomed the Corpus from the start. Any clan wanting Leaderboards weren't going to pass up potatoes in the first few battles for measly credits. They weren't going to pass up Mutagen Masses right after a MASSIVE nerf to Mutagen Sample drops, right after DE introduced several new Mutagen Sample Clantech items. Doesn't matter what the Corpus offer up now, as evidenced by Spear, the Grineer are still going to win because the clans wanting leaderboards are like "we're just gonna have to give up the reward if we want a one-time statue".

 

 

RE: Reason #2: The rewards should have been balanced in the first several missions to give players a real choice.

 

 

 

This was to show their characters.

 

Grineer: Win anyway necessary, at any cost. (Gave Orokin Cats and Reactors)

 

Corpus: Greedy. Only cares about money and power. (Gave Credits)

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kibbols123

[Kibbols123]

You are just mad you are not in the best clan "Warbros"

Check yourself before you shrek yourself kid.

 

THIS is why I hate Warbros.

[Alkirin]

The most influential clans in this were supporting Grineer before the battle rewards entered the equation.

 

The Corpus still lost even in cases where they offered superior rewards.

 

So what other excuses are there?  The heart of the war went with the Grineer, deal with it.

[Blackjammer]

Except we STILL haven't seen the Grineer being evil. So the authoritarian (sp?) thugs are oppressing the corporate sadists. And I care because?

DE needs to do a WAY better job of putting the damn lore in the damn game. Expecting us to make decisions based on the Lore without Lore to base decisions on is just stupid.

 

What could be considered evil at this point? There isn't really any context for morality to exist at this point.

 

 

This was to show their characters.

 

Grineer: Win anyway necessary, at any cost.

 

Corpus: Greedy. Only cares about money and power.

 

A bit out of character for the Grineer and especially Ruk given that he's a race supremacist. I doubt he would be able to bring himself to work along side the Tenno the way he is now and I'm sure he's going against orders for doing so.

Corpus are also surprisingly cheap given that they were more than happy to "hire" us with rare mods for Operation Sling-Stone. I would think they would try that strategy again given how effective it was the first time.

[TwiceDead]

The most influential clans in this were supporting Grineer before the battle rewards entered the equation.

 

I believe that's because it's more efficient to fight against Corpus than it is to fight against Grineer.

 

[Taranis49]

The most influential clans in this were supporting Grineer before the battle rewards entered the equation.

 

The Corpus still lost even in cases where they offered superior rewards.

 

So what other excuses are there?  The heart of the war went with the Grineer, deal with it.

 

 

 

The imbalance of the rewards (particularly at the start) was definitely the cause - the "heart of the war" obviously wasn't with the Grineer, or Quirnus and Martialis would be Grineer-controlled nodes too.

 

I covered it in my post, as did the OP; it's called "momentum" (there's also the fact that, as the OP pointed out, pro-Corpus missions are significantly more difficult than their counterpart) - the uneven slant during the first day set the tone for the entire war - people were pegging it as a Grineer victory even before the Corpus started offering decent rewards (and they certainly didn't offer Mutagen as frequently as the Grineer did, shortly after they both introduced new bio lab weapons and made mutagen harder to come by).

 

Hell, DE even tried addressing the early call of Grineer victory at that point by claiming "oh, you're being premature, knee-jerking, etc." - by the time they tried making the Corpus more appealing, it was basically rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Perception was reality.

[Liminal]

I think many people take it as Corpus sympathizers hating on big clans. That's not the idea (at least in my case). It's not hating. But it can't be denied that the largest groups of players all playing for the Grineer makes many many smaller clans (and solo players) pick their side, and I can't blame any player or clan for that, it's a flaw in the event. Of course players will try to go down the path of least resistance (and better rewards).

[Sakatox]

THIS is why I hate Warbros.

After pages and pages of TC getting told and still going Nyehhh, what did you expect?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Sakatox

[litlit]

Except we STILL haven't seen the Grineer being evil. So the authoritarian (sp?) thugs are oppressing the corporate sadists. And I care because?

DE needs to do a WAY better job of putting the damn lore in the damn game. Expecting us to make decisions based on the Lore without Lore to base decisions on is just stupid.

 

Yeah this about sums up my thoughts on the matter. The clone-army monarchs and the plutocrats are slaughtering each other? Sure, I'll gladly let one side pay me to help them, then stab them in the back the instant the other side offers a better reward. But, caring about which side ultimately wins? Eh.

 

And helping my fellow Tenno? Uh, are my fellow Tenno going to give me a weapon slot and a new potatoed weapon if I rescue them? No? Well, guess they're S#&$ out of luck.

[Namacyst]

Why do you have to write so much?

DE made rewards and restrictions as they are for completing the event --> DE_Steve made Catalyst on Grineer side, Credits on Corpus side at the beginning. War = Over, grineer win.

If you read the rewards/restrictions for the event and then gave 1 minute of thought into the effects uneven Battle pay will have for the balance of the event (all which DE did not do in the slightest) then you knew already who would win and this had nothing to do with players free choice, design or intelligence.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Namacyst

[MDRLOz]

What do you expect? Do you want DE to show Grineer Eating corpus or something... maybe stealing their puppies and the sweets from small children?

 

The Grineer just invaded someone else sovereign territory of someone else over a trade dispute! 

 

It like saying you hire some builders to build you a house. They break the contract and build your house out jelly so you invade their homes... 

 

I feel that people expect to much from DE. 

 

Now I agree completely that we haven't seen any "colonists" or have much proof we will be saving these Mysterious discovered Tenno. But De is at least trying. Please remember (as I said above) This is all just a new mission mode Beta test with nice window dressing on it. They could have just tested this mode by just randomly having it occur all over the map to test stuff. Instead they took the time to make a story and tie in the release/re-release of two characters. 

 

Also we all really should wait till after the event is over. We still have several days f rewards and stuff yet. The Corpus might rally or the Grineer might run low on resources. Its not over. Also Who knows what DE plans as "after effects" from this event? 

[Hezekiah]

I sided with the Grineer solely for lore reasons, It added a bit more "roleplay" to the event, and made participation more engaging.  

 

Honestly, The corpus are an easier target than the grineer, they just are.  A corpus run takes 2 minutes, a grineer run almost 10.  I banged out almost 40 runs in three hours yesterday, if not more all against corpus.  

 

Now that being said, this even is a lot of fun, and I hope to see more like it.  Playing a "warzone" with the outcome decided by the players is an awesome concept, I just wonder if the roles were reversed (The grineer had taken hostages/cryopods) how many of us would stand with the corpus instead.

 

The corpus do need to have a "tougher" enemy included into their roster, maybe adding the Zanuka's would be more balanced.

[rksk16it]

Completely agree with OP. I sided with Corpus cuz :

1. I like kiling grineer, I have well equipped frames and have no problems in blowing an entire battalion of heavies. More fun than killing pathetic corpus weaklings.

 

2. I like the looks of corpus pistol. ONLY IF DE CAN GIVE ME CORPUS PISTOL OR ITS BLUEPRINT, REGARDLESS OF IF THEY WIN OR LOSE :(

 

I dont give a slightest **** about clan leaderboards, or the statues or whatever other forms of ep**n they are getting for being in top X, as long as its NOT affecting the actual gameplay... *cough* primed chamber *cough*.

[Wolfstorm18]

I sided with the Corpus solely for lore reasons too. Im always beating Grineer soldiers at Phobos, since it was discovered in operation Arid Fear. I do this usually alone, most of the time without any help from other players, so its understandable that I should not care about captured Tenno. This is called reciprocity.

 

If DE dont put any Lore in place, I made my own.

[SilentCynic]

Taranis49 said it perfectly. Who wins doesn't really bother me, but an even playing field is essential to make these kind of events interesting and not just a slog.

[PanGalacticGargleBlaster]

These tears are delicious.