How does it feel?

[(PSN)PheonixFontaine]

I dunno my recent thoughts after playing it more recently:

My biggest note, I'll touch on a couple times I'm sure is that we need simplification. Ease-of-access. Players need a lower entry-bar to participate, because that's how they'll try it. I look at these grids of stats and effects and it's just walls of numbers and text that I can semi-parse. Brands are big separation between parts and I'm still not sure what's good or what suits me. Valence Fusion is honestly crappy design in this regard, as it's extra stats tagged on that you have to build like another progress bar.

Anyways:

MISSIONS

• When a mission is done, what happens if you want to keep going resource-wise and everyone else doesn't? The Host Migration is probably one of the worst things in this game, almost inevitable at this point. Some way to have players leave like they do in endless modes without taking the whole party with them would be nice. This is faceted in Open-Worlds, Mission End forces extraction.
• Dojo then Orbiter. Weird hiccups when ending the mission. Resource acquisition is a weird 3-part encounter.
• Refuel at Dojo. Payload constantly needs you to go back to dojo creating some hiccups between missions.
• Variance would be nice. Ideas in that regard all feel like they should just overlap with the Archwing mission nodes and game-types though. Maybe space-mining missions, but I don't know how best one would mix that up. Kill X Enemies is probably the stick in the mud here, being present every single mission.
• 1-player ships mechanics. This is very much a team-design, it's possible with multiple. I keep seeing complaints like "Someone wasted all the flux, dumped the forge and left", it's infuriating that this sort of sabotage can exist. Curbing the abuse is a very important thing. It's also difficult to do that without being all "This match belongs to Player A and everyone else is just in the backseat twiddling thumbs."
• Maybe allied units? Like, just random fighters that happen in certain maps that help you fight?

MOVEMENT

• Speed. Archwings are much faster than Railjacks on average. The need for integrated mods for that speed really dampers your ability to get where you want to go. Cruising Speed is an interesting and fun Avionic, but ultimately I have to spend points and a slot for post-mission resource grabbing? There's a lot of usability issues. When we got the initial changes, it felt really good to just maneuver, but it seems like something took that full-mobility freedom away?
• Dead-halt when hit with a particular hazard is the wrong move. It feels bad, it immediately halts all else.
• Open zones vs zones with environment. There's a sort of C curve in terms of these zone spawns, but the variance is not really changing how a railjack interacts with it. There's the hollow meteor you'll fly into, the rest are interesting walls until you start navigating for resource farming. Then they're interesting walls that annoy you.
• Horizon stabilization. Something is just off about it. (Look at horizon or nearby body to stabilize.) This can be used to help stop people who have disorientation in the 3d environment, especially if one emphasizes it as a feature.

COMBAT

• Survivability. Why is Archwing better than a railjack? Despite building a literal tank of a Railjack, it's way too easy to go from 100-to-zero when you do. Current strategy for me is: Spam-Fire Seeker Volley cranked to 50, refill, Fire spam again. (clearing most if not all the non-crewships) Then park my railjack in a hollow meteor or somewhere safe-ish, archwing over and manually take out all the ships.
• Hazards. There was talk about hazards being "Less hazards, but bigger hazards when they happen". I'm seeing: "More Hazards that you can't ignore". I like the impact overall, but there's something detractive about how frequent even that impact is here. When my ship takes a couple minor hits and triggers a large hazard, I'm concerned this was not the intended effect. Then immediately again after repairing it.
• Boarding Parties. Not enough rave lights and dance music for it to be a party. Please ensure Corpus are better at partying then the Grineer with proper glowsticks.
•  Boarding Parties. The way they move around the ship is off. I feel like it'd be more intuitive for them to move to certain parts of the ship then start attacking, rather than random bits of floor. If they go for the pilot, the engine, etc... that's the sort of behavior I think I'd expect in this situation.
• Ramsleds. If you keep looking at it, it can't hit you. Also, frequency of these is excessive. There's a distinct "this is always going to happen and hit" that makes it really not a good mechanic. Particularly you'll see this be an issue when near a Platform that doesn't stop launching them even if you've killed everyone on-board. Give me a target inside the platform to disable these maybe? At least we can shoot them before they hit now, but doesn't stop them from being a constant nuisance.
• I'm being swarmed. It's weird that you have two scenarios: You nuke them all before they get close... OR they're just flying about like an angry swarm of bugs. Something about this makes taking out enemy crewships a low-priority, despite them being a larger threat.

AVIONICS

• Total Avionics. There's more space with better Reactors obviously, but at some point it's still not quite "I have all these slots and am using them all at maximum potential."
• Elemental resistance Avionics... I don't even know. I'm going down anyways, I don't need resistance to specific types honestly. I'll just do the whole meteor park anyways. Glass Cannon all the way.
• Winged Avionics: I love these, they boost the overall potential of Archwings, creating a potential Archwing-based Railjack. Downside: Range. This is a large space, let me hug the ship that's getting shot at is a bad strategy. I think 1000m is really off, especially for the speed. My thought: Make it a buff like Wisp's or something, entering the railjack's zone applies, then it's a duration when they leave until the benefit disperses.
• Classes of Avionics. There's 4 distinct "styles" I'm seeing. Tank, Gunship, Archwing, Runner. I feel like these all could be emphasized as sets more in terms of how a Railjack might play. I think there's something both to the hybrid of these types of emphasized builds, but perhaps the parts could play into them. A gun that feels better when moving for the Runner. Tactical and Battle Avionics that allow you to remotely support Archwings. Interactions that create a better feeling when playing a specific way you've built for.
• Avionic Scaling. Seeker Volley wipes early zones easy, but then has such a sharp ineffect in Veil Proxima.

GUNS

•  Cryophon is the gun I notice it most with, but sometimes you can see the particle hit, but there's no impact. For a wave/shotgun this is gross. There's a distinct precision you need in some cases and there's also a radius where you're too close? Some destroyable don't get hit, while others melt. This feels like an unintended collision issue with gunfire.
• Brands on Guns. These are just oversaturation. I'm looking at charts of numbers with very poor ways to compare them. It's not really streamlined enough for this much variance. Mk III is the easy "best", but then brand-to-brand, the different stats, variances and etc... I'm just lost. It's not really a good read. The stats are very arbitrary feeling and with the Valence Fusion layered in it feels like "I have no idea what's good anymore. Not in-general, not for me, not for what I'm shooting at."
• Repair costs, I'm seeing a lot of Trachons, but no good ways to earn them without a higher-level mission (Veil Proxima from what I'm understanding?) I need these parts to survive there, but I can't build these parts without going there. It's off and hard to say how to rebalance it.
• Lead-indicators are nice, but inconsistent in terms of effectiveness.

DROPS

•  I'm seeing a weird hiccup where players don't realize that interior areas have rare drops and thus don't break containers and open the lockers in those locations. (Also rare resource containers are an interesting way to hide some things)
• Post-mission farming. "Look guys, more rocks"
• Maybe activatable points of interest. Maybe "defend the thing" upon activating and acquire the related resource. This would shift the time spent into a more engaging experience I think, rather than a rock-breaking game. "Warframe: Break More Rocks". While we don't want more defense missions, I do think this could be an optional post-mission endeavor. Maybe less defense and more "shoot the target to break the big rock while enemies try to stop you".
• Maybe indicators as an upgrade. Something like Loot Detector as an intrinsic effect.

ETCETERA

• Brands. Lavan, Zetki, Sigma... What do they mean? It's the same thing on Deimos. What's "Fossilized" and "Sinew-something" and what do the Vome/Fass buffs do? I think there's more visibility in Railjack part-per-part when you really read into the number grids, but there's not really emphasis on what things actually do. I'm just not hitting the point where "This suits me" if I'm looking at it.
• Omni-tool. Revolite is a bad in-mission resource and feels bad to have to use/make etc. I'm not sure what would make it feel better, but something about how it applies to hazards when using it makes it feel very touch-and-go.
• Tactical is weird and disjointed on console. Using Omni-tool to warp back to ship always puts one at a random exit. Using fast-travel on-ship is not streamlined creating a sharp break in gameplay. I can do it, it just could be smoother. Same with Warframe support abilities. Cool, but also disjointed and I'm not sure I've ever seen it used, much-less effectively. I don't think I can just spawn these effects on enemy ships or a vague area of space, so the end result is... what?
• Since I mentioned Tactical... I worry that Command will have the same disjointed effect when trying to use it on console. What I hope for is that we can just have basic gunners for our side turrets and some other such mechanics. What I also worry is that my piloting will adversely affect their targeting. I want random NPCs to just fix the minor issues with my ship while I get stuff done.

[Kategari]

Ok here we go:

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Refuel at Dojo. Payload constantly needs you to go back to dojo creating some hiccups between missions.

The Forge exists. And the tactical avionic Battle Forge exists should the Forge not keep up with your needs.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Maybe allied units? Like, just random fighters that happen in certain maps that help you fight?

Slight chance this comes in Commander Intrinsics but still, unless Railjack becomes a challenging game mode, this is mostly overkill.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Speed. Archwings are much faster than Railjacks on average. The need for integrated mods for that speed really dampers your ability to get where you want to go.

What have you done to your Railjack? What engines are you using? Seems like you're actively avoiding the speed avionics and complaining your ship is too slow. In my experience, the Railjack is significantly and substantially faster than an Archwing, especially in long range travel (towards something like a Sentient Anomaly).

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Dead-halt when hit with a particular hazard is the wrong move. It feels bad, it immediately halts all else.

Whilst it does feel bad keep in mind if you don't address that hazard your ship blows up resulting in a mission fail. So perhaps you should be focusing on fixing that hazard instead of thinking about moving. You will have every opportunity to move afterwards with a few seconds of invulnerability.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Survivability. Why is Archwing better than a railjack? Despite building a literal tank of a Railjack, it's way too easy to go from 100-to-zero when you do.

What have you done to your Railjack? And how are you piloting your Railjack? I use a Railjack that doesn't even have tank avionics and I survive 500000x longer than if I jump out in my Archwing... Unless that Archwing is an Amesha.

 

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Hazards. There was talk about hazards being "Less hazards, but bigger hazards when they happen". I'm seeing: "More Hazards that you can't ignore". I like the impact overall, but there's something detractive about how frequent even that impact is here. When my ship takes a couple minor hits and triggers a large hazard, I'm concerned this was not the intended effect. Then immediately again after repairing it.

I agree on a complete reversal on the hazards change from Revisited. However I will point out that you should not be ignoring hazards... ever... Maybe that's why your ship is blowing up faster than ever.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Total Avionics. There's more space with better Reactors obviously, but at some point it's still not quite "I have all these slots and am using them all at maximum potential."

Elaborate. I don't know what you're saying here.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Seeker Volley wipes early zones easy, but then has such a sharp ineffect in Veil Proxima.

I didn't realise I was reading something from early 2020. This has not been the case since Revisited. Seeker Volley is incredibly powerful especially in Gian Point. So unless your hope is "50 missiles, 50 blown up fighters", Seeker Volley is absolutely perfectly fine.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

I'm seeing a weird hiccup where players don't realize that interior areas have rare drops and thus don't break containers and open the lockers in those locations

I don't see how DE can do anything about this without handholding in the game.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Something like Loot Detector as an intrinsic effect

I would rather a larger vacuum emitting from the Railjack to suck up resources. With plenty of ways to blow up large areas, you're probably doing it very inefficiently if you're just shooting each and every rock.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Lavan, Zetki, Sigma... What do they mean?

Different versions of the same weapon. Some have more status chance, some have more crit. Each brand's mk III has a different bonus. Zetki weapons will overheat faster.

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

What's "Fossilized" and "Sinew-something"

As in Infested health types? 

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Omni-tool. Revolite is a bad in-mission resource and feels bad to have to use/make etc. I'm not sure what would make it feel better, but something about how it applies to hazards when using it makes it feel very touch-and-go.

So........... You want it removed? Some sort of resource should exist that you need to use in order to fix the ship, otherwise it becomes nigh-impossible for the mission to fail if you can just keep fixing your ship ad-nauseum. You can already make more Revolite at the Forge so... I don't see any problem with it.

 

9 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

I don't think I can just spawn these effects on enemy ships or a vague area of space, so the end result is... what?

You can if you have a team-mate outside of the ship but not in an Archwing AFAIK. For example - you can use WarFrame abilities via your ship inside the Murex during Scarlet Spear, so long as you have allies inside the Murex defending the point.

Otherwise: they're probably designed more for defensive use if you get invaded by ramsleds.

[Hokibukisa]

18 hours ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

Classes of Avionics. There's 4 distinct "styles" I'm seeing. Tank, Gunship, Archwing, Runner.

And imo these can be further broken down into greedy-frame avionics, and bro-frame avionics.

Tanking is the pilot’s job. Piloting is obviously the pilot’s job. Archwing avionics are a distraction and should exist (jedi-mind-trick), and gunning is the crew’s job.

It could be argued that everything that helps the crew be more lethal on your Railjack is a bro-frame avionic, and everything else is a greedy-frame avionic.

Ive previously been fitting my railjack for the best piloting experience, but I’ve been experimenting with making guns as lethal as possible, with all 5 sidegunning avionics, artillery cheapshot, and artillery damage.

Thats 7 of 9 integrated avionics going into bro-frame, making your crew actually feel effective and lethal.

In addition to lethality avionics in order for crew to have a good experience, you as a pilot need to also provide a stable artillery and side-gunning platform, which means you need the ability to take some hits and ignore breach risks.

(for those new to railjack, breach risks are a waste of Omni, you can safely ignore them)

Yes with staffing and boosting you can avoid most damage but that also can make for a worse gunning and artillery experience.

So it’s actually a way to view face-tanking as bro-frame and speed tanking as greedy-frame.

So for an armor&hp face-tank, and full squad lethality avionics, that’s 9 out of 9 integrated avionics.

Which I’m not going to actually do. I like going fast and having deep flux reserves. Yes these are greedy, but all of this can be placed at DE’s feet.

Write user stories next time DE.

You made RJ with an assumption of having a captive audience. This has led to poor experiences out the gate. You thought you had wf players hooked and didn’t play test RJ from the perspective of having not been sold on it.

These are fundamental problems that no numbers on spreadsheets can fix

[PhiThagRaid]

9 hours ago, Kategari said:

Ok here we go:

The Forge exists. And the tactical avionic Battle Forge exists should the Forge not keep up with your needs.

Slight chance this comes in Commander Intrinsics but still, unless Railjack becomes a challenging game mode, this is mostly overkill.

What have you done to your Railjack? What engines are you using? Seems like you're actively avoiding the speed avionics and complaining your ship is too slow. In my experience, the Railjack is significantly and substantially faster than an Archwing, especially in long range travel (towards something like a Sentient Anomaly).

Whilst it does feel bad keep in mind if you don't address that hazard your ship blows up resulting in a mission fail. So perhaps you should be focusing on fixing that hazard instead of thinking about moving. You will have every opportunity to move afterwards with a few seconds of invulnerability.

What have you done to your Railjack? And how are you piloting your Railjack? I use a Railjack that doesn't even have tank avionics and I survive 500000x longer than if I jump out in my Archwing... Unless that Archwing is an Amesha.

 

I agree on a complete reversal on the hazards change from Revisited. However I will point out that you should not be ignoring hazards... ever... Maybe that's why your ship is blowing up faster than ever.

Elaborate. I don't know what you're saying here.

I didn't realise I was reading something from early 2020. This has not been the case since Revisited. Seeker Volley is incredibly powerful especially in Gian Point. So unless your hope is "50 missiles, 50 blown up fighters", Seeker Volley is absolutely perfectly fine.

I don't see how DE can do anything about this without handholding in the game.

I would rather a larger vacuum emitting from the Railjack to suck up resources. With plenty of ways to blow up large areas, you're probably doing it very inefficiently if you're just shooting each and every rock.

Different versions of the same weapon. Some have more status chance, some have more crit. Each brand's mk III has a different bonus. Zetki weapons will overheat faster.

As in Infested health types? 

So........... You want it removed? Some sort of resource should exist that you need to use in order to fix the ship, otherwise it becomes nigh-impossible for the mission to fail if you can just keep fixing your ship ad-nauseum. You can already make more Revolite at the Forge so... I don't see any problem with it.

 

You can if you have a team-mate outside of the ship but not in an Archwing AFAIK. For example - you can use WarFrame abilities via your ship inside the Murex during Scarlet Spear, so long as you have allies inside the Murex defending the point.

Otherwise: they're probably designed more for defensive use if you get invaded by ramsleds.

Agree with most you have to say here, I don't see where many of OP's suggestions come from, but they most seem to lack knowledge of how the systems actually function currently.