A Look At The Gradivus Dilemma

[KONAir]

A lot of this is not supported by the known lore in any way, especially the underlined parts. It seems your complaint is that the lore of the game does not match what you think it should be.

 

Underlined parts are the only solid lore have in the game man...

Edited October 31, 2013 by KONAir

[General_Krull]

In your opinion, however many people seem to think that the core design is fine.

 

 

A lot of this is not supported by the known lore in any way, especially the underlined parts. It seems your complaint is that the lore of the game does not match what you think it should be.

Mob rule means nothing. 

 

And you're seriously wrong or illiterate if you think Grineer isn't a matriarchy. Matriarchy means women are in charge, Grineer are ruled by "The Sisters" sister is female therefore Grineer is matriarchy.

And corpus army consisting of drones mostly, do you actually play the game? https://warframe.com/game/factions/corpus

It says corpus are known by their proxies, and it's said in game that their standing army consists mostly of robots and stuff. 

 

Also the initial message found here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122377-corpus-vs-grineer-tensions-are-rising/

 

"Tenno blahblahblah, support corpus and we stop grineer from gaining more power, support grineer and our fellow tenno fall in the mercy of Alad V"

Jeez man back up your claims.

[lNogardl]

I was starting to type something big in response of this, but i'm done, no use repeating the same crap to people who just love negativism. I'M DONE.

[Dracorya]

Underlined parts are the only solid lore have in the game man...

 

Aka, we don't have much. We need more lore to have a compelling reason behind what the heck we're doing in this game.

 

See, I think the stakes might have been better if we had ever SEEN any of the so called civilians in this game. So far, we don't even know what the rest of the population of this game looks like aside from the things we kill.

 

And no those hostages we see in the rescue missions don't count.

[theGreatZamboni]

Aka, we don't have much. We need more lore to have a compelling reason behind what the heck we're doing in this game.

 

See, I think the stakes might have been better if we had ever SEEN any of the so called civilians in this game. So far, we don't even know what the rest of the population of this game looks like aside from the things we kill.

 

And no those hostages we see in the rescue missions don't count.

 

Good point about the hostages. Since I only play modes that offer the best chance for the drops I want, I never play that mode anymore. That entire mode is a relic from early development and either needs to be improved or removed. But the fact that the hostage looks human, there was most likely no thought behind that. It was simply put in as a proof of concept, intended to be removed later. Another example of the small things and their impact-fulness. Things like Mobile Defense missions in Corpus tilesets using a Grineer console.

 

On that note, I miss the P.A. announcements and the sawblade noises from the Grineer sawblade guys. The game really lacks ambiance now.

Edited October 31, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Othergrunty]

And you're seriously wrong or illiterate if you think Grineer isn't a matriarchy. Matriarchy means women are in charge, Grineer are ruled by "The Sisters" sister is female therefore Grineer is matriarchy.

And corpus army consisting of drones mostly, do you actually play the game? https://warframe.com/game/factions/corpus

It says corpus are known by their proxies, and it's said in game that their standing army consists mostly of robots and stuff.

 

The Sister are also called Twin Queens and the little bit ingame lore states that they are pretty much the reason the Grineer became organized again after having previously been a collection of "tribes"

 

So yeah the two woman in charge sounds like matriachic structure to me aswell.

 

However there is not a single statement that the Grineer recieved their cloning tech from the Corpus. The official information on this very site says "They rediscovered cloning" that means the Grineer found cloning technology on their own.

 

About the Corpus army. The description of their home system talks about indoctrination temples. I always assumed the majority of their workforce are brainwashed "corperate drones" including the Crewmen we encounter during mission. Which would make them proxies aswell.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Othergrunty

[Alkirin]

This is alot to read, but it was also a very bad analysis. 

 

By no coincidence, something like this crops up in the wake of the last event ending and, sure enough, it's a so-open-minded-your-brains-fall-out perspective that barely masks what is essentially massive QQ over the results.

 

Why would you even mention speculation about DE tampering with the nodes?  Even if they were present, the outcome wouldn't change.  That was done on principle, and solid principle at that.

 

Grineer and Corpus are as blatantly-spelled-out-card-carrying-villain as it gets.  The sense that Tenno are the 'bad guys for slaughtering innocent villains' is outright hipster levels of ridiculous.

 

The lore isn't extensive, but it doesn't need to be.  Yeah, that's not enough for some people because they want to get all lore-junky about an interesting setting, but lack of information is not a plot hole.  Not knowing something does not an inconsistency make.

 

 

[This.  Everything this guy said, too.]

 

I'd go into more about why your lore complaints are also bad, but this guy covered much of it well.  There are issues, but they aren't what you're complaining about.  In fact, your type of criticism isn't constructive as it serves to obscure/muddle matters that would otherwise be addressed.

 

Corpus lost.  It was legit.  Insisting upon things that are blatantly wrong to support excuses to justify more crying don't change that.

[ScribWere]

To be honest, you're spot on. Seriously. Beta has become code for "sloppy as heck". And that's depressing. Worse, DE doesn't have the excuse some other "betas" have had in the past. Riot Games when they released League of Legends as a Beta?--They were not in any way, shape, or form a big company, they didn't even have industry experience. They were modders by and large and people hired from friends and community colleges. DE technically has a published product--Dark Sector is there game.

 

Moreso, this beta is supposed to end in a couple weeks. Please. This needs help, I loved this game, allot. I looked forward to it, but the things I looked forward to haven't really progressed since, well. I joined.

[theGreatZamboni]

This is alot to read, but it was also a very bad analysis. 

 

By no coincidence, something like this crops up in the wake of the last event ending and, sure enough, it's a so-open-minded-your-brains-fall-out perspective that barely masks what is essentially massive QQ over the results.

 

Why would you even mention speculation about DE tampering with the nodes?  Even if they were present, the outcome wouldn't change.  That was done on principle, and solid principle at that.

 

Grineer and Corpus are as blatantly-spelled-out-card-carrying-villain as it gets.  The sense that Tenno are the 'bad guys for slaughtering innocent villains' is outright hipster levels of ridiculous.

 

The lore isn't extensive, but it doesn't need to be.  Yeah, that's not enough for some people because they want to get all lore-junky about an interesting setting, but lack of information is not a plot hole.  Not knowing something does not an inconsistency make.

 

 

 

I'd go into more about why your lore complaints are also bad, but this guy covered much of it well.  There are issues, but they aren't what you're complaining about.  In fact, your type of criticism isn't constructive as it serves to obscure/muddle matters that would otherwise be addressed.

 

Corpus lost.  It was legit.  Insisting upon things that are blatantly wrong to support excuses to justify more crying don't change that.

 

I have no idea what you read, but I am in Warbros. So this isn't about QQ. Maybe you need to re-read it before S#&$-posting. Seriously, skimming a post is not the same as reading. It is fairly obvious you looked and the words on the page, but did not comprehend that they entailed. Reading comprehension is not the same as reading. You can hear someone talk, but that does not mean you are listening. You can read criticism, but that does not mean you are taking it. You really need to stop being such a stickler and read the post.

Edited October 31, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[shr0ud]

well they did something right, from 8k players peak to 15k players peak in a few days

 

it could have been better, but it could have been much much much much worse.

like the entire thing could have been broken. as it turns out, only a part of it was.

[theGreatZamboni]

 

The participation for the event started high, but trickled off due to disinterest. You cannot sustain those numbers unless the content itself is interesting enough to keep people enthralled beyond events. Events that inherently are a grind, do nothing different from the regular game as it exists now. It just adds rewards. The game should be centered around rewarding experiences created through gameplay, not drops/rewards. What will inevitably happen is, these numbers will tank again until the next update. You are correct in your statements, but unless you can sustain those numbers, it is ultimately pointless. I am not saying you cannot have drop or rewards; but because of the nature of the game currently, most people are only playing to obtain drops to get items, to help them get more drops. This cycle continues until they hit the paywall that is slot limitations. They are then forced to deleted items they have formaed, potatoed, or grown attached to in order to experience new content. The slot limitations are not helping this game, no matter how much money DE make off of them.

Edited October 31, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[shr0ud]

what's worse is there are already a ton of good suggestions everywhere on the forums

 

slot limitations are acceptable in my opinion but after you buy them you have no reason to buy anything else

[Etsoree]

This is what I understand given the information I have been exposed to. The Grineer are a race run by a matriarchy. They use cloning and biological engineering to inflate their number and combat their limitations imposed by being formerly human. 

 

Source that. I stopped reading after I saw that.

 

Nowhere does it say the Grineer were human.

 

In any case, it's a beta, and didn't DE say that Warframe is gonna be a PS4 launch title? This suggests the game will not be in beta stage after that.

 

I've heard of games in beta stage, and have seen them myself, for YEARS, with no progress. Be happy that DE is going through such lengths to bring you this game you play.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Okay, since it seems you crave actual criticism. I'll provide. There's a lot of it because I found most of your post objectionable in some fashion.

Something I find, as a player/Tenno, hard to believe.

I think this right here is where your post goes into badwrong territory. The Lotus being paralyzed by indecision makes plenty of sense given what we know about the event:

On one hand, you have the grineer. Them getting more resources is bad, because they're the enemies of the Tenno.

On the other hand, you have the corpus. They're also enemies of the Tenno. However, they're also trying to reverse engineer Tenno technology to become stronger. Them doing so would also be bad.

We don't know the specifics here, but those are the broad strokes, and they're pretty apparent.

So right from the getgo, we have a strategic situation that needs to be approached with some thought for any self-reflective Tenno, even leaving the specifics of this event aside.

Then on top of that, we learn two more points:

1. The corpus have Tenno cryopods and will experiment upon their occupants; undoubtedly in a brutal fashion given what little lore we have on the corpus and environmental storytelling like that dissected grineer in corpus outpost maps. You're a master, so you've surely seen the outcry against Alad for what he's going to be doing to Mag in his cinematic. Players naturally feel sympathetic to Tenno since they're the PCs.

2. The grineer will enslave any corpus colonies they take. Now this part is where the event falters because we haven't seen these colonies/civilians and thus have no connection to them. Ideally this event would've come out after the release of the grineer shipyard tileset or a series of missions allowing players to connect with these independent people. That it doesn't is very problematic. This is also pretty much the only place where you're unequivocally right.

However, the point that the Lotus legitimately can't make a decision on this dilemma isn't something you should find hard to believe. It's a somewhat difficult decision for us who sees those 'civilians' as a vague reference and those annoying rescue targets (witness all the arguments on the forums) and would be a very hard decision for someone actually in the universe.

If you're skeptical of this, it's basically because you're trying to be skeptical.

On the whole specific lore angle, the cloning tech being corpus in origin is not something I'm aware of. Where's the evidence for this? The rest of your assumptions re who the corpus/grineer are seem relatively accurate though. But pretty much everything you say after that is... Pretty bad, I'm not going to lie.

For instance, this:

"Let's stop for a second. What secrets? What can taking a Tenno and reverse engineering them do to help them better understand the Orokin? It is implied that the Corpus already have an extensive knowledge of Orokin tech and already own hundreds of Tenno."

Nothing of the sort is implied. The Corpus have some knowledge of some orokin technology, but the stuff the corpus can do and the stuff the orokin can do are worlds different. Warframes are orokin tech, after all, and warframes are generally what Tenno use to go through corpus like a chainsaw through butter. The best the corpus can do re orokin tech is extremely crappy knockoffs.

In fact, on further thought that's why I'm so surprised at how you're questioning why the corpus and grineer want warframes to reverse engineer - warframes are massively superior to anything they have. Single tenno casually wipe out hundreds of their best troops. Why wouldn't any rational faction want to acquire that power for themselves?

Honestly don't know why you're bringing up Nef Anyo's backstory either; him being a corrupt administrator and selling tenno pods presumably on the down low doesn't seem too far fetched. What, it establishes corpus operate under a profit motive? Like some kind of... Merchant cult? Oh noes, you just confirmed the lore we already had on the corpus but didn't say much of anything with this.

Let's look at the driving factors behind this event and what it entailed. The Corpus had the knowledge and the means to create artificial Void Keys to enter and hide in the Void. The Corpus also were able to reverse engineer Orokin Tech to create the Fusion MOA laser. It doesn't seem like they are starving for Orokin secrets. But the reason they go to hide in the Void, is to avoid the Tenno from collecting coordinates the Corpus have on the location of a Grineer base, so they can continue to extort them for money. This makes no @(*()$ sense. Given the location of where said base was, Phobos; how hard was this information to obtain? Players were subjected to hours of grinding to obtain coordinates for the location of a Moon which we know exists in present day. This shows the limitations of containing the story in one solar system. Because DE are not using it to their advantage, it is backfiring on them. But back to this idea of "motive".

1. The corpus pretty clearly didn't reverse engineer fusion moa lasers, given that fusion moas are pretty clearly orokin in design (see their presence amongst the corrupted and the absence of normal moas, see the original fusion moa message from Apacus, see their visual design and its similarities to prime warframes). Far more likely, the corpus outright found fusion moas in the void and reprogrammed them for their own use. "Orokin salvage is incredible" and all that. Heck, look back to the victory text for the great moacaust - the corpus sent their few remaining fusion moas across the system so the Tenno couldn't wipe them all out at once, which rather strongly implies there's a finite supply of them that the corpus can't replenish. If they'd reverse engineered fusion moa technology, this wouldn't be an issue since they'd be like normal moas: Corpus could always crap out more in their moa factories.

Unles you're referring to flux rifles? But there's no evidence those are fusion moa related either. Far more likely they're related to spectra, which is deep space contruction equipment.

2. What reason do the Tenno have to explore what is to them a dead moon in corpus territory on the off chance that maybe the grineer are there? Space is big. There's a large number of moonlets in this system, to say nothing of big asteroids or other places the grineer could be hiding.

Alad V was behind Arid Fear. Like Nef, he seems to go into business for himself. This explains the idea of him starting the Zanuka project, to create a name for himself among his superiors. This is something I have deduced and is not cannon.

Alad is very clearly talking to the board, presumably a corpus leadership body. He's not going into business for himself. Zanuka is most probably a pet project of his designed to increase his power and esteem in the eyes of the board, yes, but 'going into business for himself' implies things that are pretty clearly not true. For all his talk of grineer dogs, Alad is the board's dog. As shown by the end of the event, they're the ones holding the leash.

As for this stuff about inconsistency with Lotus not being able to find phobos but being able to intercept transmissions, there's no real inconsistency here. An ability to eavesdrop on some communications does not imply the ability to seek out hidden enemy bases. Signals intelligence isn't magic.

Well like I stated above, the Corpus are no slouches when it comes to Orokin tech; what about the Grineer? Well, they are just as competent as the Corpus. Vor is able to use his Key as a weapon, enter the Void and even has a Orokin tech infused pistol. Kinda makes it seem like they do not have more secretes to unlock, yet we are told this is what they want.

We know from Arid Fear and particularly its victory message that Vor's scientists basically regard warframes as black voodoo magic. Again, this whole point you're making seems to be founded on misreading the lore we do have.

Admittedly the Arid Fear victory message is only available on the wiki now due to an oversight instead of the lore menu where it belongs, but recently Rebecca said she'll look into fixing that.

We are also told that the Grineer want to destroy the Tenno, but for some reason at the same time, want to capture and utilize their tech. Maybe that is a part of Vor's character, that he is fascinated by Orokin tech and it garners disdain from his peer and superiors. This would help explain why the Grineer on Asteroid tile missions, seem to want to blow up an Orokin reactor/generator, they saw fit to move into their Asteroid base to power it. (Yeah, it makes no @(*()$ sense) To assume this is just that. I have no clue because it isn't told to us. This is what makes the idea of "Vor's Prize" just sitting there, such a huge slap in the face. Because it was the promise of an explanation/expansion of the lore.

Did you ever consider the fact that the grineer are trying to blow up the reactor to deny its use to the Tenno? Like any rational army would do when their enemy gets ahold of something valuable that they can't effectively take back? Or did you just leap to "Hurr durr inconsistency it makes no sense" without thinking about it first?

It's like you've dug deep looking for plotholes, except you've dug so deep that you're lost and now you're seeing the holes you dug yourself as plotholes.

This is how it initially was played out.

1. Help the Corpus, you don't get your fellow Tenno back.

2. Help the Grineer, you don't get your fellow Tenno back.

Tenno/Player Motive: get your fellow Tenno back.

Now this was changed shortly after, but the damage was done. Because of the lack of clear and concise lore that was needed to make this event make sense on a narrative level, it made DE look bad. There are two motives floating around that seemingly came into play here. The Tenno are meant to stop the expansion of the Grineer, for whatever reason. They are also charged with rescuing and awakening fellow Tenno to help them fight the Grineer. Now apply these motives to the event, before the revisions.

Why the hell would we apply these motives to the event pre-revision? The event pre-revision hadn't started yet. It was a typeo that DE admitted to and fixed. Yes, it's embarrassing, but this is exactly what I say when you're making mountains out of mole hills. (Also, no player who's actually thought about it would think the initial typeo was anything but a typeo.) By the time the event went live, it was made extremely clear what each option entailed: Save Tenno at cost of grineer expansion or do the opposite.

This was all an attempt to game the system by removing choice, so when DE changed it and people actually weighed their options; the only sensible choice was Grineer. This seemed to upset someone, which resulted in nodes being tampered with. It is unclear who did this and why they did it. People speculate that this was DE's doing; malicious intent or not. I have no opinion, because I am ignorant of what happened. But the notion that I would not put it past DE, speaks for itself.

It says your credibility is on the same level as Alad V's when it comes to grineer relations. I mean, seriously, why would DE resort to editing the event in such a fashion when they have so much more effective tools at their disposal? It's ridiculous tinfoil hattery and giving the idea any credence at all takes your credibility and explodes it like a nova that just hit it with a ball of antimatter after spamming 4 for that delicious 100% damage boost. If you're crazy enough to believe a conspiracy theory like that, how can anyone take anything you say seriously?

"This game is in bad shape. An event was hyped to be something that was gameplay heavy and brought something new. What we got was more of the same grind. We got a few tileset variations, but were ultimately left running the same levels we normally play, over and over and over again. And while a lot of this game is replaying tilesets, tilesets that have no impact on play style or challenge aside from highlighting crappy enemy spawning. This event showed off how bad the enemy AI is. Which is strange, because DE teased/leaked a blurb last livestream about A.I. improvements. Here is why this is so bad. Because the same mistakes are being made. Just like with U10, all of these issues could have been avoided by waiting. Making sure it is polished, making sure it meets expectations, making sure features that would/could improve the experience launch alongside the event. This event could have been greatly improved had the A.I. changes been implemented, along with Armor 2.0."

Also, the event could have been greatly improved by giving every player a real life pony.

You forgot something of importance though, on the "something new" front:

"Oh, and you get to fight alongside AI allies."

Which is frankly a huge deal that did a lot to freshen up the game, just fighting alongside NPC allies even if they're just decoys (ie lancers vs elite crewmen). The event could have been better - more varied objectives than just extermination would've helped, possibly sequenced missions or multi-part missions would have helped, certainly - But your entire thesis, that the event failed on every level, is bogus. One of my clanmates said, and I quote, "This is the most fun I've had since starting this game."

Bluntly, the event met my expectations. Perhaps because I wasn't expecting the moon and the stars? I was told and expected fighting for control of a system via fighting alongside rollers and moas. I didn't expect a mere event to be the second coming of Raptor Jesus complete with blowjobs and choirs of angels singing hallelujah. I expected something similar to Slingstone or Arid Fear - a temporary goal to spice things up while DE works on major game changes. I didn't expect a massive revision of everything of the game. I didn't expect armor 2.0, or melee 2.0, or the codex, or anything else gamechanging, except the mechanics for territory changing hands. Which the event delivered.

There was nothing to these events that reflected the advertised player choice. It was the same Extermination mission with slight tile variations. Imagine playing that over and over and over again. It is not fun. This again shows, DE does not play their own game. The great ideas here are marred due to the "design by committee" mindset. 100 runs doesn't seem bad. I slept walked through most of it. But the fact I did not enjoy myself is the problem, not the number of runs. The numbers come into play, because like I said, it was not fun. There was no challenge aside from enemy spawning, as stated previously. Which is what made even more funny, my sleep walking through levels. Because I used the Ignis for the whole event, I barely had to aim. The only time I had to stop, was to wait for enemies to spawn. I did runs with people, we blew through these mission in 2:00 sessions. Fun fun! This event showcased that player choice doesn't matter, not just in the gaming of the outcome, but through the means they experienced it.

Are you serious? Nothing to this event that reflected the player choice? Did you miss the entire 'make runs to increase your team's control of the node, the other team will be doing the same' part of the event? You know, its whole core? What is this event about if not about player choice?

You can argue that the choice wasn't as compelling as it should have been, and you're quite right about that. But you can't argue that there was no choice involved, that's poppycock. There was a very clear choice. Corpus or Grineer, detron or brakk. Then, of course, there was the choice of whether to stick to your guns, or to turn traitor temporarily for loots and make up the difference later.

I'm sorry you didn't have much fun, but to be totally blunt and honest here, I think the problem isn't the event, I think it's you. I had a lot of fun. My clanmates had a lot of fun. Even when we were speedrunning we were having a blast just chatting with each other in between milking those boxheads of their greedy milk. Heck, my clan as a whole had fun trying to beat FortunaRihs for #2 storm clan spot on the leaderboards. Granted we didn't succeed, but we had fun doing it because we had a goal to work towards. Not that anyone was forcing us to go above and beyond for that statue, that was another choice we made as a clan.

The event could've been much better, definitely, but I and most people I talked to thought it was fun.

Nova was hands down the best for this event. Xhris of our clan did a 1:25 run as Nova with a friend. So not picking Nova, you severely limited how efficiently you could complete runs. If you are sane, you would want to get the runs over with as soon as possible, so you'd pick Nova.

It really isn't, just one option amongst several good ones. One of my clanmates had a lot of success with ember spamming WoF, and I had a lot of success with a volt + speed and dakra prime with the occasional shock or overload tossed in for flavor. Several of my other clanmates had a lot of fun using their rhino's combination of durability and wide AOE damage to great effect. Nova was about as effective as these. Maybe a little better if you optimize everything and use wormhole perfectly to shave seconds off your time, but that stuff doesn't really matter.

This might seem like an alien concept to you, but not every gamer relentlessly optimizes everything.

Seriously, you're not 'punished' by refusing to optimize. One of my clanmates got 80 of his 100 runs solo moving at his own pace and generally having fun. Another was only having fun when he was speedrunning against a very good nova player because, according to him, he had to "step up his game to keep up." Both players have their own definition of fun. One includes optimizing for maximum effectiveness, one does not.

One of your major issues seems to stem from the idea that you have to speedrun with hyperoptimized nova and ignis for sub-2 minute times, but that's a constraint placed on you by yourself. If you don't like playing like that, nobody's forcing you to. There was enough time to get to 100 runs even playing casually. Don't like using ignis to burn all the things? Switch to synapse. Or challenge yourself more, switch to a lower level gun you don't use and level it. I did that with my miter even though in most respects it's much inferior to an electric-modded ignis for this event.

In short, if you intentionally do things that you feel suck the fun out of the game, you lose all right to complain about the game not being fun.

So now in the end, getting back to a point made earlier, millions of Corpus have died. Which leads me to believe they are not so few in numbers as once stated. Also if the Grineer are so upset; why don't they wage the multi-front war they know the Corpus cannot? If the Grineer army is so massive compared to the Corpus, why wouldn't the full force of said army be there to remind the Corpus not to act out of line again. Another thing, the stakes being "Grineer influence will spread"; spread into what? There are no civilians in this universe that we know of, so why are we so worried? If the Grineer are dying due to bad cloning tech; why not just wait out their own extinction? If the Corpus purposefully limited the cloning tech; why don't the Corpus combat their only weakness by using the functioning cloning tech to inflate their numbers? None of this makes any sense. All that can be said now is that if DE continuously refuses to ignore criticism and refuse to utilize us as a community, this game will die IN spite of us.

Now we're back to you making asinine assumptions about the lore. Man, apply some thought to this before inventing plotholes that don't exist. Corpus are a multi-planet polity, them having a 'small' population still means they're going to have billions of people in total, simply because you need that many to effectively claim a whole planet. They're 'small' compared to the huge and expanding empire of mass produced clones.

It's doubly irritating because one of your underlying points, that DE needs to do a much better job with lore and storytelling, is very right. It's just that seemingly-good but in fact crap posts like this detract from that by making all of us who do want good lore look like neckbeard grognards who're overly concerned with minutia and who are unwilling put in the minimum of critical thought necessary to understand the lore we do have. Posts like yours poison the well and keep down actual valid criticism.

[General_Krull]

Source that. I stopped reading after I saw that.

 

Nowhere does it say the Grineer were human.

 

In any case, it's a beta, and didn't DE say that Warframe is gonna be a PS4 launch title? This suggests the game will not be in beta stage after that.

 

I've heard of games in beta stage, and have seen them myself, for YEARS, with no progress. Be happy that DE is going through such lengths to bring you this game you play.

What else were they? They are clones of clones of human. And DE has stated warframe will stay in open beta after ps4 release. And no you can't use it as an excuse and we shouldn't be grateful they are making this game, they should be grateful we are playing and supporting it. They are making a product for us to enjoy and if they want to keep getting money from us they better make it to our liking.

[Ixalion]

I'm astonished by the number of people bashing Zamboni just because he's giving his feedback on an event and how DE could improve on possible flaws in the future. I'm not talking about the ones responding to his points and giving him reasons why they disagree with him; I'm pointing at the folks who are basically just telling him to shut up and play the game.

 

Guess what, guys? When you're playing a game in beta, giving feedback, good or bad, is what you're EXPECTED to do as a beta tester.

[Etsoree]

What else were they? They are clones of clones of human.

 

Again : source. Nowhere does it say that I've seen that says they are human clones, or derive from humans. They could've been from gorillas for all we know, and by technicality, gorillas are not humans, but very close.

[Demon-King-Lamb]

No way I would read the wall O' text but here is my right to comment.

[theGreatZamboni]

People are mistaking the forest for the trees. I will not be responding in or editing this thread further. I'm done making posts in general, anywhere on the forums. Not that it should matter. Hopefully this thread is locked.

[Blatantfool]

Following up, as per OP's request.