So... That Nova Nerf...

[fatpig84]

I love how M Prime is all people care about when AM Drop is the real overpowered ability here.

 

Shut up. She is the only frame will real scaling power with AM drop.

In fact I want DE to buff AM drop to 8x and a 30m radius !!

[TwiceDead]

Shut up. She is the only frame will real scaling power with AM drop.

In fact I want DE to buff AM drop to 8x and a 30m radius !!

Maximize power range and you'll have no negative effect other than a reduced base damage (not multiplier), and a 35meter radius on it. 

Give it a try, it's good fun. 

 

EDIT:

ERP! Damage 2.0 just released! Let's put this discussion on hold for now. 

Edited November 21, 2013 by TwiceDead

[tripletriple]

 

Once you can provide an actual legit sounding argument that doesn't include slinging ad-hominems, I am sure someone will eventually listen to you as well. 

You have no argument, many arguments have been presented to you and you meet them with the same two replies.

A) Nova ruins my fun. Fun is subjective, that is your opinion.

B) Nova makes the game too easy. Truth is the game itself is easy and if they took nova completely out of the game people would spam other skills, that are just as good if not better. Vauban can make an entire battlefield useless. Rhino can give you buffs and spam his ult just as much.

I will ask the question no nerf crazy nova player has yet to answer. Name a situtation where nova is required to complete the content. FYI, the highest achieving players had no nova in their parties.

Edited November 21, 2013 by tripletriple

[VentiGlondi]

Nova is now more powerful than ever.

Molecular Prime easily explodes every level 37 grineer in radius.

And that's like preU11 level 90.

[TwiceDead]

You have no argument, many arguments have been presented to you and you meet them with the same two replies.

A) Nova ruins my fun. Fun is subjective, that is your opinion.

B) Nova makes the game too easy. Truth is the game itself is easy and if they took nova completely out of the game people would spam other skills, that are just as good if not better. Vauban can make an entire battlefield useless. Rhino can give you buffs and spam his ult just as much.

I will ask the question no nerf crazy nova player has yet to answer. Name a situtation where nova is required to complete the content. FYI, the highest achieving players had no nova in their parties.

Don't attempt to toss me into one of your circlejerks, I am not going back to square one to explain why it is broken again. 

I'm just going to assume you haven't read any of my posts simply because you don't like me. 

 

 

Nova is now more powerful than ever.

Molecular Prime easily explodes every level 37 grineer in radius.

And that's like preU11 level 90.

 

 

Yeah, I was fighting up to wave 20 Casta where you start facing level 36-38 Grineer, and they all wen't down with one MP cast. Since Casta is a completely circular map, it wasn't difficult to affect all currently spawned Grineer that had exited the tunnel chokepoints. 

Edited November 21, 2013 by TwiceDead

[tripletriple]

Don't attempt to toss me into one of your circlejerks, I am not going back to square one to explain why it is broken again. 

I'm just going to assume you haven't read any of my posts simply because you don't like me. 

My god what are you a woman? I don't like you because I don't agree with your stance on a virtual frame? You ask me not to ad-hominem then you throw a red herring at me. Ffs.

Edited November 21, 2013 by tripletriple

[taiiat]

well, from what i've seen so far - more testing to go - Nova is... now more powerful at wiping the map than she was before?

i'm not exactly sure this is what we had in mind. 

 

in fact, some other frames, which have Elemental themes, seem to be less effective. 

but, still much testing to be done.

[ShadowDreamer]

Slightly off topic, but at least I know people are going through this thread :p

 

Is AMD still bugged in that aiming at it doesn't slow it down in single player mode?  I know in the past I could easily tell it slowed down (practically stopped) when I aimed at it while in a PUG, but whenever I was solo it would just keep trucking along

[TwiceDead]

My god what are you a woman? I don't like you because I don't agree with your stance on a virtual frame? You ask me not to ad-hominem then you throw a red herring at me. Ffs.

My earlier point proven, stop slinging ad-hominems and maybe someone will eventually hear you out. 

 

 

Slightly off topic, but at least I know people are going through this thread :p

 

Is AMD still bugged in that aiming at it doesn't slow it down in single player mode?  I know in the past I could easily tell it slowed down (practically stopped) when I aimed at it while in a PUG, but whenever I was solo it would just keep trucking along

 

 

One of my clan mates mentioned something along the same thing, that AMD would slow down when you aimed directly at it. I did not manage to recreate the feat in multiplayer matches, neither on nor off-host. Didn't try Solo though. 

Edited November 21, 2013 by TwiceDead

[tripletriple]

My earlier point proven, stop slinging ad-hominems and maybe someone will eventually hear you out. 

 

No you have proven my point. You have no argument so you choose to change the topic to me supposedly hurting your fellers.

[TwiceDead]

No you have proven my point. You have no argument so you choose to change the topic to me supposedly hurting your fellers.

Oh just like you are continuing this pointless bickering you mean? 

 

But let's get back on track. What is your point? Nova is not OP? Bring a solid sounding argument to that claim, and I might just be swayed. 

"She's a porcelain doll glass-cannon" does not outweigh the benefits she get's. 

[Yg-Dosst]

Oh just like you are continuing this pointless bickering you mean? 

 

But let's get back on track. What is your point? Nova is not OP? Bring a solid sounding argument to that claim, and I might just be swayed. 

"She's a porcelain doll glass-cannon" does not outweigh the benefits she get's. 

So, according to you, having Zero defensive or protective abilities beyond a 50% move slow doesn't count.

Alright.

 

What exactly are her benefits?

I'd like to remind you that that her ult doing large amounts of damage does not count either.

Because that dies off at legitimate end game content, even more so now, considering the overall increase in enemy resiliency.

Unless her ult can already one-shot an enemy with a single explosion, then its damage is essentially useless give the way it's set up now, as it will be COMPLETELY unable to cause the chain reaction that kills everything.

And mind you at this point 800 damage is easily achievable by any given Warframe, even if we're excluding Power Strength mods.

 

And now that if we include the fact that splash damage does LESS damage the further away from the center you are, you can generally count on the damage being significantly less then 800.

 

The range of Molecular Prime does not count either, for it only applies and becomes apparent when enemies are below 1600 effective health (including armor) which is rare at level 40 enemies as of Damage 2.0. Not only that but the "Range" of things killed by M Prime when they are a laughably low level, only applies when the entire enemy force clumps up into one big ball or conga line. That only occurs during Infested missions, and Defense as enemies are all pouring out of a choke point.

 

The only "Benefits" Nova has are a High Sprint speed, the ability to give her WHOLE TEAM teleportation (but is terribly hard to use during combat) and the Slow/Damage Amp passives of her Ult.

That's not much compared to other Warframes such as Rhino, Frost, Vauban, Trinity, Mag, and many others.

 

- - -

 

In short, Nova's Ult is the only reason people call her OP, and even that is just an ILLUSION because unless you can one-shot them with a single explosion (1600 Damage, easily achievable by just about any Nuker and even non-nukers like Rhino), the ult immediately becomes useless beyond it's Damage Amplification and Slow, both aspects are achievable in a stronger quantity by Rhino and Frost respectively.

Her ult's range being also negligible, because, unless you can one-shot them with a single explosion, the damage is not going to chain out as far as her ult's goes.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[VentiGlondi]

Because that dies off at legitimate end game content, even more so now, considering the overall increase in enemy resiliency.

Objection.

Nova deals much more damage than before, grineer around wave 20 on Ceres died faster then preU11 infested on Xini.

I've seen it with my special eyes.

[ScHiZniK]

Armor scaling is no longer such an issue and pretty much no ult can top MP now or even before this patch.

[TwiceDead]

Here we go again...

So, according to you, having Zero defensive or protective abilities beyond a 50% move slow doesn't count.

Alright.

Doesn't count. Had it only been a 50% slow down with explosions and halved radius, I could've rolled with it, however considering it's effective range rivals the range of the cosmos, with a 100% damage boost to boot, no. The benefits outweighs the negatives by tenfold in her case. 

 

What exactly are her benefits?

1 ability, four effects.

A major slow CC, 100% damage boost for your allies, and 50% less mobility, rate of fire, and damage output from an ability with an effective range of 58 meters at most. 

20% more movespeed than the average frame, combined with a decent redirection and some mobility skills you can easily mitigate any major damage taken using hard-cover or just your mobility if it's not grineer you're fighting. She may be a porcelain doll, but she's agile.

 

What exactly are her benefits?

I'd like to remind you that that her ult doing large amounts of damage does not count either.

Because that dies off at legitimate end game content, even more so now, considering the overall increase in enemy resiliency.

Unless her ult can already one-shot an enemy with a single explosion, then its damage is essentially useless give the way it's set up now, as it will be COMPLETELY unable to cause the chain reaction that kills everything.

And mind you at this point 800 damage is easily achievable by any given Warframe, even if we're excluding Power Strength mods.

 

Yes, damage matters because she is capable of doing much more. Because enemy armor mitigation is not as much of an issue as it was before Damage 2.0. 

Here's an illustration I made just for you... 

Now imagine that five of those green dots are grineers, and the red ring around is the explosion radius at it's worst without stretch mods. Imagine that they explode thanks to a punch-through sniper round, the explosion deals 250 damage per target. (simply to stick to pre-damage 2.0 numbers where armor scaling was a serious issue to keep things familiar)

Now multiply that by 2, because that's what M-Prime does, doubles enemy damage taken. Boom goes all the grunts, but not the heavies, suddenly it's not only five grunts exploding at 500 damage each closest to the center of each explosion, but 90% of the field of green dots you see in the illustration, with only 1-4 heavies in between the mix. That's quite the damage right there. 

 

Now slap Overextended and Stretch in there, add focus to mitigate some of the damage loss, and you may as well double the range on the explosions. Oh, and reduce damage by 30% from 250 if you want, since Overextended has a tendency to do that. Might as well add Fleeting Expertise to be able to cast the ability only for only 25 Energy, since the loss in duration isn't going to harm anything else than your Null Star. 

 

The range of Molecular Prime does not count either, for it only applies and becomes apparent when enemies are below 1600 effective health (including armor) which is rare at level 40 enemies as of Damage 2.0. Not only that but the "Range" of things killed by M Prime when they are a laughably low level, only applies when the entire enemy force clumps up into one big ball or conga line. That only occurs during Infested missions, and Defense as enemies are all pouring out of a choke point.

 

UH, The range does not count? When that is one of the most glaring issues with the ability? 
Okay... I'll let you know it becomes 'Apparent' as soon as you use it. Btw, the enemy spawns in a big ball and do march out of their spawns in a conga line. Should they not, they will run in circles where they spawned trying to figure out what cover to use because the AI is dumb like that. That occurs with every faction, not just infested.

 

The only "Benefits" Nova has are a High Sprint speed, the ability to give her WHOLE TEAM teleportation (but is terribly hard to use during combat) and the Slow/Damage Amp passives of her Ult.

That's not much compared to other Warframes such as Rhino, Frost, Vauban, Trinity, Mag, and many others.

Funny you should brush off her most useful ability as a "Meh, who needs 50% enemy slowdown and Damage Output and a 100% increase in damage", while teleportation suddenly is "OMG so powerful!". You're not convincing anyone. It's not teleportation being spammed in the field. 

 

In short, Nova's Ult is the only reason people call her OP, and even that is just an ILLUSION because unless you can one-shot them with a single explosion (1600 Damage, easily achievable by just about any Nuker and even non-nukers like Rhino), the ult immediately becomes useless beyond it's Damage Amplification and Slow, both aspects are achievable in a stronger quantity by Rhino and Frost respectively.

Her ult's range being also negligible, because, unless you can one-shot them with a single explosion, the damage is not going to chain out as far as her ult's goes.

Damn right Nova's ult is the only reason people call her OP, because it is exactly what makes her OP. Her Null Star is fine, her AMD is fine considering the amount of concentration and time you have to put into it to make it decent, and there is nothing wrong with teleport, it's a travel-tool. Many frames have those. 

Many frames do not however have an ability that reduces all incoming damage by 50%, slows down the enemy by 50%, and increasing enemy damage taken by 100% in a 58 meter radius, which is the size of the entire circularly room on Casta excluding the tunnels enemies spawn from, and it is enough to affect most of the Tower Defense map... All that with one button. By the way the explosion radius increases with stretch mods, so yes entire spawns of enemies on different locations on the map might as well blow up with one well placed sniper bullet.

Edited November 21, 2013 by TwiceDead

[tripletriple]

Yet no nova nerf advocate has yet to answer my question. Name a situation where nova is absolutely needed to clear with ease and I will agree she needs a nerf. Go ahead, answer it.

[VentiGlondi]

Yet no nova nerf advocate has yet to answer my question. Name a situation where nova is absolutely needed to clear with ease and I will agree she needs a nerf. Go ahead, answer it.

I could ask you the same about any other frame.

If she's ABSOLUTELY needed then it's not about her being too powerful, it's about every other frame being too weak.

Edited November 21, 2013 by VentiGlondi

[tripletriple]

I could ask you the same about any other frame.

If she's ABSOLUTELY needed then it's not about her being too powerful, it's about every other frame being too weak.

Exactly, doesn't answer the question and responds with a strawman fallacy. Just answer the question. Really is it that hard to understand?

[VentiGlondi]

Exactly, doesn't answer the question and responds with a strawman fallacy. Just answer the question. Really is it that hard to understand?

There is no such situation.

Your question makes no sense anyway. If she was absolutely necessary in certain situation then nerfing her would make such problem completely impossible to solve.

[TwiceDead]

Exactly, doesn't answer the question and responds with a strawman fallacy. Just answer the question. Really is it that hard to understand?

Forgive me, I must've missed your point with this post.

 

Besides the answer is so glaringly obvious it doesn't need answering. Why you'd even ask it is beyond my comprehension. Thank you to VentiGlondi though, for being so kind as to ease our tension by providing an answer. :) 

[tripletriple]

There is no such situation.

Your question makes no sense anyway. If she was absolutely necessary in certain situation then nerfing her would make such problem completely impossible to solve.

Thank you. Case closed, we can lock this topic then. Nova needs no nerf because she does nothing any other frame cannot do and better. Bring me a situation where nova is needed to complete something that others cannot do with ease. Until then every argument from anyone is invalid.

 

In order to claim something is overpowered it must provide a significant  benefit over others. Being good /= overpowered. There goes all your arguments out the window.

 

It does make sense because there is no equation where she is absolutely needed.

Edited November 21, 2013 by tripletriple

[TwiceDead]

Thank you. Case closed, we can lock this topic then. Nova needs no nerf because she does nothing any other frame cannot do and better. Bring me a situation where nova is needed to complete something that others cannot do with ease. Until then every argument from anyone is invalid.

 

In order to claim something is overpowered it must provide a significant  benefit over others. Being good /= overpowered. There goes all your arguments out the window.

 

It does make sense because there is no equation where she is absolutely needed.

 

... What? That's how you solve your arguments? Oh well.

[VentiGlondi]

It does make sense because there is no equation where she is absolutely needed.

No, that would mean every other frame is useless and needs a buff, or enemies are too tough and need to be nerfed.

You're missing the point of this entire thread.

[tripletriple]

I just want to know by what measure you guys are claiming something is broken or overpowered? What is the line that crosses op? What is the set standard on which something is to be called overpowered?

 

Do you know how it will effect begginers who play warframe when you scream nerf? etc, etc

 

There are so many equations to think about before you scream nerf.

 

If something is overpowered it is better than something else. So much so it breaks the flow of the game. I've asked a simple question, how is nova so special that it does something other frames cannot do? The answer is obvious. Nova is just another frame. Her powers just happen to annoy people. Something you refuse to admit. Otherwise why would someone cry about something that benefitted them?

 

In otherwords, you nova nerf advocates have no argument besides nova annoys me.

[VentiGlondi]

My argument is that I've seen Nova obliterate entire squad of level 40 grineer aside from a few heavy units that still took severe damage and were slowed down, thus completely nullified the challenge I expected from such a level.

 

Best loot gathering simulator 2013

Edited November 21, 2013 by VentiGlondi