So... That Nova Nerf...

[tripletriple]

My argument is that I've seen Nova obliterate entire squad of level 40 grineer aside from a few heavy units that still took severe damage and were slowed down, thus completely nullified the challenge I expected from such a level.

I don't care about your expectations. I care about proof and concrete evidence, your feelings don't mean anything. Now not that i don't believe you but I can say I've seen a rhino stomp an entire map and then we headed to extraction, reply with factual evidence please. Even then I could have done the same with tons of other frames and worse. Vauban could have thrown a bunch of bastilles and vortexs. Rhino could have stomped. Forget damage Trinity makes it so you can not die. How is that game breaking?

 

Anyways this is my last post because it's an infinite loop of arguments.

Edited November 21, 2013 by tripletriple

[VentiGlondi]

I don't care about your expectations. I care about proof and concrete evidence, your feelings don't mean anything. Now not that i don't believe you but I can say I've seen a rhino stomp an entire map and then we headed to extraction, reply with factual evidence please. Even then I could have done the same with tons of other frames and worse. Vauban could have thrown a bunch of bastilles and vortexs. Rhino could have stomped. Forget damage Trinity makes it so you can not die. How is that game breaking?

 

Anyways this is my last post because it's an infinite loop of arguments.

The "X can do the same" argument is the worst one. It only proves there are more things to argue about.

 

If you enjoy game being easy then I could as well tell you that your feelings don't matter.

Edited November 21, 2013 by VentiGlondi

[LukeAura]

My argument is that I've seen Nova obliterate entire squad of level 40 grineer aside from a few heavy units that still took severe damage and were slowed down, thus completely nullified the challenge I expected from such a level.

 

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Unfortunately obliterating entire squads of grineer isn't hard for anyone to do any more. 

[Buzkyl]

My argument is that I've seen Nova obliterate entire squad of level 40 grineer aside from a few heavy units that still took severe damage and were slowed down, thus completely nullified the challenge I expected from such a level.

 

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Now you must prove other frames under the same damage system aren't capable of the same feat.

[Yg-Dosst]

No, that would mean every other frame is useless and needs a buff, or enemies are too tough and need to be nerfed.

You're missing the point of this entire thread.

You're missing the point of the question.

Every Functional Warframe can do what she does with ease.

That means she does not need to be nerfed, because that means she's on par with every other frame.

And no, that does not mean every other war frame is weak if there was a situation where she obviously outshined others.

Thinking that way means you either have an irrational hatred for Nova or support Power Creep which is a severe issue with this game.

[TwiceDead]

Every Functional Warframe can do what she does with ease.

 

Except for the fact that, they can't. 

Edited November 22, 2013 by TwiceDead

[Yg-Dosst]

Except for the fact that, they can't. 

Rhino, Frost, Vauban, Saryn, Mag, and a large plethora of high-tier weapons can melt current level 40 Grineer as if it were nothing.

The rest of the Warframes Are usually Utility (Loki, Trinity, Banshee) or are considered to be in need of a rework ATM (Ember, Volt)

[TwiceDead]

Rhino, Frost, Vauban, Saryn, Mag, and a large plethora of high-tier weapons can melt current level 40 Grineer as if it were nothing.

The rest of the Warframes Are usually Utility (Loki, Trinity, Banshee) or are considered to be in need of a rework ATM (Ember, Volt)

Going to test this now that the new update has hit, as I am no longer sure what changed and what didn't. 

I'll get back to this eventually. 

[DaveC]

With approximately 19 warframes including primes....why does pretty much every game I play in have at least 1 Nova and often 2, in fact it's quite common to get 3 Novas, but usually one of them leaves (because they won't get enough kills). The simple answer is because she is so much better than other frames and people want to play her as much as possible.

I cannot see how the view of people on here can defy logic and claim that the Nova frame does not need balancing and is overpowered in relation to other frames. I have a Nova, I have played her plenty, I know what I'm talking about and because I personally stand behind my view that she is overpowered. I no longer play her, because it does ruin others enjoyment of the game..

I know I know, "glass cannon", "porclain doll", I don't spam prime, I don't play my Nova like that, etc.. etc.. The fact of it is though, I NEVER seem to come across Nova players like you in the game. ones that don't spam MP, in fact ones that don't even use it unless they have to. nope all the Nova players I come across in game, start spamming prime no matter how low level the enemies. All have mods on to give the largest reach and biggest bang they can without using too much energy. I have even seen them join part way through a game with their finger firmly pressed on the 4 key as they materialize!

The people on here who shout Nova hater, post stupid images or want the discussion locked because it's all boring etc.., simply want to continue with the frame as it is, stupidly overpowered and spam molecular prime to get as many kills as possible....but it's killing the game for a lot of people. I played a bit when update 11 came out and was disappointed, because it's been made even easier. 30m with Vauban solo on a Paulus survival and I left because I was bored....god knows how easy it would have been with a Nova. I played one more run of some special event grindathon, which was basically running thru watching everything die, with absolutely no chance of failure.

I haven't bothered playing since, it's become a kiddies game with everyone wanting god mode and now they got it, with grind plus added so they can keep acquiring stuff for the sake of getting stuff. BUT, you still want Nova left untouched.

I have played nearly 1000 hours of Warframe, but no longer, this last broken update simply adds more grind, confusion, pointlessness and power creep to an already very easy game. Nothing is a challenge and with a Nova on the team....nothing, is what the rest of the team will have to do!

[taiiat]

With approximately 19 warframes including primes....why does pretty much every game I play in have at least 1 Nova and often 2, in fact it's quite common to get 3 Novas, but usually one of them leaves (because they won't get enough kills). The simple answer is because she is so much better than other frames and people want to play her as much as possible.

I know I know, "glass cannon", "porclain doll", I don't spam prime, I don't play my Nova like that, etc.. etc.. The fact of it is though, I NEVER seem to come across Nova players like you in the game. ones that don't spam MP, in fact ones that don't even use it unless they have to. nope all the Nova players I come across in game, start spamming prime no matter how low level the enemies.

I haven't bothered playing since, it's become a kiddies game with everyone wanting god mode and now they got it, with grind plus added so they can keep acquiring stuff for the sake of getting stuff. BUT, you still want Nova left untouched.

- while i agree, everything has changed, and just about every frame seems to operate in a similar means, Nova can still clear the largest swath of enemies though, due to tying for the highest range(as far as we know), and explosions.

 

- perhaps. and is certainly true a very large amount of the time.

 

- it does seem this way. Warframe seems to be... idk. what's the point of really trying? i don't seem to need to. i could just walk around, never running, never doing anything but jogging, only hipfire spraying, and casting powers from time to time - and i'd be able to complete 100% of the content in the game as it stands. 

 

what happened? i really don't know. 

we're lacking the fundamental basis of a Video Game now. overcoming obstacles (not physical ones), problem solving, knowledge accumulation to be applied in future situations, as well as a wide variety of equipment. 

 

but all we have now, is a wide variety of equipment. we seem to have somehow lost... the game part, in the game. 

 

this is nothing like what we were hearing about Damage & Resistance changes. we were hearing more in depth mechanics, not this. 

[LukeAura]

I know I know, "glass cannon", "porclain doll", I don't spam prime, I don't play my Nova like that, etc.. etc.. The fact of it is though, I NEVER seem to come across Nova players like you in the game. ones that don't spam MP, in fact ones that don't even use it unless they have to. nope all the Nova players I come across in game, start spamming prime no matter how low level the enemies. All have mods on to give the largest reach and biggest bang they can without using too much energy. I have even seen them join part way through a game with their finger firmly pressed on the 4 key as they materialize!

I think you've addressed a key issue here. 

There is absolutely no reason not to gear nova up for max range, damage, and efficiency. 

Her ult deals enough damage that you can set her up with max range, neutral damage and max efficiency with the right mods, and not worry about the loss in damage output. You only lose a lot of duration. 

Duration only effects Null star which is an entirely unneeded ability for her. 

If she was negatively effected more by losing duration, or could benefit more from it with her other abilities. Or if say, power strength affected the multiplier on Drop, she would actually be toned down in the m prime department. She needs a change to actually require planning in her build. 

Her optimization is too easy and too painless.

 

[Yg-Dosst]

I think you've addressed a key issue here.

There is absolutely no reason not to gear nova up for max range, damage, and efficiency.

Her ult deals enough damage that you can set her up with max range, neutral damage and max efficiency with the right mods, and not worry about the loss in damage output. You only lose a lot of duration.

Duration only effects Null star which is an entirely unneeded ability for her.

If she was negatively effected more by losing duration, or could benefit more from it with her other abilities. Or if say, power strength affected the multiplier on Drop, she would actually be toned down in the m prime department. She needs a change to actually require planning in her build.

Her optimization is too easy and too painless.

I will agree with this.

Nova interacts strangely with mods.

Power duration makes no sense for having more stars.

Power, duration, and Range has no hold on AM Drop.

Wormhole is utility that does not get noticibly more useful with any mods.

M Prime has a set duration that cannot be changed by power duration, and the two aspects that stay relevant at massive levels are unaffected by power.

She does not need to be nerfed, her powers just need to use mods properly.

And there needs to be both a way and a reason to buff abilities OTHER then M Prime, as that is the only ability that gets noticeably increased by mods.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[SanityRobot]

I've actually been making Novas ragequit Xini the past couple of days by spamming Overload on Volt. It kills everything on the map besides leapers almost instantly up until wave 15-20.

 

I haven't played with many people outside of Xini, and haven't tried Nova in my solo testing, so can't comment on her power relative to the other frames at the moment. Volt's Overload is at least comparable damage-wise to MPrime pre-nerf, with the chaining damage and such.

[VentiGlondi]

It's quite disappointing that the highest tier defense missions aren't a challenge until waves 20+

If all the frames are that powerful at the moment... I don't like that.

Well actually it seems Radial Javelin got hurt by the update and it was already more limited than the other damage ults, but I'm getting off topic

Edited November 22, 2013 by VentiGlondi

[TwiceDead]

Rhino, Frost, Vauban, Saryn, Mag, and a large plethora of high-tier weapons can melt current level 40 Grineer as if it were nothing.

Getting back to this. Tested on Tier 3 Defense. 

Rhino recap:

The most versatile frame in the game. But his build requires planning... You can't go for maximization builds and expect to have everything with this guy. So I wen't with what was most important. Power Strength and Power Duration. It increases the damage multiplier for his Roar, and it's duration. As a result, I had an ability that cost about the same as an ultimate ability, but only did one thing. The ultimate ability in itself might've dealt more damage, but it didn't have to range to make it overly useful other than getting grunts off the pod. Sometimes it was even hard to get my teammates inside of the efficient range of Roar, simply because the range was nerfed to the ground because of Narrow Minded. I can't slap Fleeting Expertise on him as that would F*** with Roars duration, then again I guess it could've been done, it just makes it have to be spammed a lot more. Was never really a challenge. He doesn't really have a way to make allies take less damage though, thanks to my build. 

 

All abilities were used though. 

 

Saryn Recap:

She can't increase her allies damage in any way, and her ultimate, while damaging, has a severely less range compared to both Rhino and Nova. Otherwise it was pretty useful. Optimized for damage though, and range as much as I could without nerfing damage. Means I can only slap on Blind Rage, Focus and Stretch. If I slap on Overextended, I'll be taking away her damage. I could'nt add Fleeting Expertise as it would mess with her Miasma's duration, so I couldn't make the ability be less costly. It was powerful though, for the range it was at. 

 

Vauban Recap:

Didn't test him personally. My friend did though. We ran a Tier 3 Defense with me running Loki using Radial Disarm, and he running vauban slapping Vortexes everywhere. Was quite hilarious to have an entire wave clumped up in a ball, the lag became insane and my FPS dropped from 90-120 to 10. He told me he ran optimized for damage and duration, so Narrow Minded and Blind Rage was included, in order to give his Bastille a long duration as possible and as many enemies lifted as possible, and to increase his Vortex Duration. Range is unaffected by Vortex. Thanks to Blind Rage though it seemed like he struggled keeping abilities up due to energy cost, mostly down the later waves. 

 

On the later waves though, defeating enemies became difficult as Vortex doesn't deal that much damage, and Loki is as you said, is utility and has no way of increasing ally damage. Made us wish we brought a Rhino with us. 

It made the entire round easy though, mostly due to Radial Disarm and Vaubans CC, but it took a LONG time to finish that round. 

 

Mag Recap:

Haven't tested her yet. She's not a frame I particularly like... So yeah. 

 

Nova Recap:

4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4... 

So, yeah. That was literally the only button I pressed throughout the entire encounter, running a build optimized for range and efficiency, so M-prime dropped in damage. Tried to mitigate some of it by slapping focus on, but I still lost 30% damage, and if I had taken Blind Rage i'd be messing with Fleeting Expertise allowing me to cast M-prime for only 25 energy.  Unlike Rhino though, I gave my teammates a 100% damage boost without sacrificing range, I slowed down opponents to a crawl effectively reducing their damage output by 50% and made targets easier to hit to boot. 

 

Done. 

All the other frames I used, such as Rhino and Saryn that you mentioned, I used almost all their abilities regularly, simply because they are that versatile. In comes Nova, who only needs to press one button to be versatile for far less energy consumption, and blows S#&$ up at the same time. That Vauban used all his abilities were a given, as all of his abilities are also useful.