Okay. What We Really Need From Codex! [Codex Feedback Megathread]

[SonicSonedit]

Codex is a good start the way it is now, but it's far from what people were expecting when DE_Steve said "We are not obfuscating drop tables, we are protecting them! We will give you codex where you will find all the information that was hidden from you when we encrtypted game data!". If these words are true, Codex needs the following improvements:

 

1) All of Codex data must not be pre-set text, but loaded directly from files where enemy stats are stored. Right now some codex data doens't collide with in-game experience. Mainly - enemy armor and health.

2) Codex must display enemy scales. Not just "hp: 450" at stalker page, but with full scan "hp: 450 + (level*x)^y" (or some sort of "enemy level" slider in codex UI). I believe formula can't be loaded directly from game data, but it's ok  since formulas aren't being changed so very often. Codex should also show enemy resistance to attack types (being shown since hotfix 11.0.6! Thanks DE!) and enemy very own attack type (righw now attack mechanic is shown, not main damage type). Teneroth gave a very good explanation why this is important:

 

I happen to agree here. I was excited for the new codex, which I thought would give some insight into which damage types and elements were most effective against which enemies. but even with all the scans on a mob it doesn't tell me how much HP to expect at certain levels or any strengths/weaknesses of the mob. It also doesn't help tell me what damage types the mob does so I can build to counter them. 

 

For example, I happen to know from experience that some corpus units do magnetic damage, which is very effective against shields. If it mentions this in the codex after X scans then people could realize this, then if they are having trouble dealing with corpus, they could refer to it, notice the magnetic damage, and rebuild their frames for more HP and Armor than shields, allowing them to take more fire. This isn't currently in the codex and I think is sorely lacking.

 

I also think that after a large number of scans you should have pointers to the weakpoints of each mob, perhaps in a colored, toggle-able overlay on the model itself. 

3) Void information. Mainly - rewards. For example - visit T3 void for 15 times and you will know what it drops.

4) Drops from Enemies, Bosses and Void should show not just item name, but a chance to drop aswell. If you think that actual chances are too much you can at least show abstract records like "Chance: very high; high; above average; average; below average; low; very low". No, right now colors doesn't mean chances. It only displays a rarity of item, not it drop chance. Players do have a ton of certain rare mods while can't find a single drop of other rare mods. Why is this important? For example, Frost Prime Chassis drops used to drop from T1 exterm, T2 exterm and T3 exterm. But it has had 1% drop chance from T1, 11% from T2 and 38% from T3. Some parts are even have a higher chance to drop from lower Void tier! Showing abstract chances like High/Medium/Low would solve a lot of confusion when there is more than one way to obtain item/mod/blueprint.

5) More spontaneous progress "scan amount @ information amount". Right now you know nothing and then SUDDENLY you know everything. I would also suggest to increase scan amount needed for information on abstract (high/average/low) drop chances and detailed information on enemy resistance/attack type.

6) Detailed skill information. Something like here (without "tips&tricks" and "maximization" obviously) - actualy numbers, actual effect, not just vague description. Loaded directly from game files. I do agree on drop/reward chances, but skill information is not something that should be kept secret, isn't it?

Edited November 29, 2013 by SonicSonedit

[alchemistjkt]

Notably, most of succesfull game companies don't have a problem with showing actual percentage of drops/rewards. World of Warcraft for example.

WoW is not F2P.

afaik, most F2P games do not give out their data willingly.

[Claptrap89]

It would be better if there is some benefit when you finish scanning that enemy.

[SonicSonedit]

WoW is not F2P.

afaik, most F2P games do not give out their data willingly.

Well, I can agree about #4. But at least some abstract info on high/low would be nice. For example some components drop from both T2 and T3. Some from all T1, T2 and T3. But in some Void Tiers they have a higher chance, while in other - lower. This is what is important to know.

[Krotalon]

I completely agree with you OP.

Plus I'd add some pure design changes:

- Selectable enemy variants (Especially Grineer units: with helmet, without helmet, visor etc.)

- Option to rotate the camera.

- Option to trigger a random quote.

[alchemistjkt]

Showing abstract chances like High/Medium/Low would solve a lot of confusion when there is more than one way to obtain item/mod/blueprint.

for now, mods have a tier indicator via color... its not much, but there ya go.

that said, i do agree that BPs/parts and everything void needs something similar.

the exact drop rates is asking a little much, but something/anything is better than nothing.

[SonicSonedit]

for now, mods have a tier indicator via color... its not much, but there ya go.

Well, not exactly:

No, right now colors doesn't mean chances. It only displays a rarity of item, not it drop chance. Players do have a ton of certain rare mods while can't find a single drop of other rare mods.

[Teneroth]

-snip-

 

I happen to agree here. I was excited for the new codex, which I thought would give some insight into which damage types and elements were most effective against which enemies. but even with all the scans on a mob it doesn't tell me how much HP to expect at certain levels or any strengths/weaknesses of the mob. It also doesn't help tell me what damage types the mob does so I can build to counter them. 

 

For example, I happen to know from experience that some corpus units do magnetic damage, which is very effective against shields. If it mentions this in the codex after X scans then people could realize this, then if they are having trouble dealing with corpus, they could refer to it, notice the magnetic damage, and rebuild their frames for more HP and Armor than shields, allowing them to take more fire. This isn't currently in the codex and I think is sorely lacking.

 

I also think that after a large number of scans you should have pointers to the weakpoints of each mob, perhaps in a colored, toggle-able overlay on the model itself. 

[SonicSonedit]

Teneroth

Very well said. Do you mind if I quote this?

[Gigaus]

WoW is not F2P.

afaik, most F2P games do not give out their data willingly.

 

Please look below...

 

 

 Not just "hp: 450" at stalker page

 

Your Argument is now invalid.

 

While I think pulling the data straight from the files is a bit much, the codex is literally lying to use about enemy stats, and I can tell you, unless a new player came in and read this thread or any other explaining HP and Scaling, they would think that the Codex is old and out of date.

 

Personally, I like the idea of having a slider that you can move that adjusts the data accordingly, as to not put out too much data.

[Teneroth]

Teneroth

Very well said. Do you mind if I quote this?

 

 

Feel free :D just give credit :P

[DAFIRE]

i agree on the void part :D gotta have em all primes :P

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

The only other thing I'd add is more lore. The Excal lore entry is amazing. More details like that would be awesome, in addition to the numbers that we frankly need in order to make the codex worth filling.

Also bringing back the lore we had (ie basic grineer/corpus/infested descriptions, Vor's letter to the queens, etc) would be nice.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Notso]

100% agree

[Mactax]

I am surprised that none of you mentioned resourced. It is known for a very long time that different planets in same system has different chance of dropping certain resources. For me this was the only reason I waited for Codex.

P.S. I agree with the author of the thread on every suggestion.

[OblivionNecroninja]

WoW is not F2P.

afaik, most F2P games do not give out their data willingly.

Most F2P games don't have DE's TERRIBLE history of accidentally screwing up drop tables.

[Taranis49]

Most F2P games don't have DE's TERRIBLE history of accidentally screwing up drop tables.

 

This.

 

As I've said in the past, there has been a demonstrable need for someone to "watch the watchmen" here, e.g. in the case of the Void, its drop tables were proven to have been mucked up following every single update since it was introduced in U8 all the way to U10, even guys like Sheldon didn't deny it looked shady following U10 (and it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be the case that the drop tables had issues again in U11, except there's no way to tell anymore, which is why I've been loathe to use keys).

[ReiganCross]

Dude... You're missing the most important part of the Codex... The damn Scanner is unwieldy as hell!... It seriously begs to be bound into Tab as a Hold sort of thing. Y'know, "Hold Tab to bring out Codex" and when you let go, you go back into normal... Just saying, right now the whole expendable gear is really, really unwieldy...

[Corodix]

Yeah, the scanner is a real pain to use. I was afraid it would be turned into something like that, it's just a chore to scan everything right now and once you're done with it you'll be glad you won't ever have to use it again (with the exception when they add new mobs of course). They managed to make it quite unenjoyable, at least for me. I'd rather see it based on just having to kill a mob X times to get all the info (like 1k to 10k times for all the info), then it doesn't break up the flow of the game, but it isn't trivialized either since it would still require a serious amount of investment.

 

Right now the scanner is just another piece of content I want to use as little as possible...

[Notso]

Yeah, the scanner is a real pain to use. I was afraid it would be turned into something like that, it's just a chore to scan everything right now and once you're done with it you'll be glad you won't ever have to use it again (with the exception when they add new mobs of course). They managed to make it quite unenjoyable, at least for me. I'd rather see it based on just having to kill a mob X times to get all the info (like 1k to 10k times for all the info), then it doesn't break up the flow of the game, but it isn't trivialized either since it would still require a serious amount of investment.

 

Right now the scanner is just another piece of content I want to use as little as possible...

 

It would be much less painful if it was just hotkeyed, where you hold the hotkey and it scans, rather than having to equip the stupid thing like a weapon.

[SonicSonedit]

Codex now shows Enemy resistances! Thanks DE!