Woot, The Hek Has Returned.

[Cwierz]

I am just going to take a moment to thank de, for making the Hek relevant again. For anybody wondering what I am talking about compare all of the shotguns right now in your codex, and examine the puncture value.

[LisRestall]

Well, it's also OP now due to Accelerated Blast which has a bug that gives 400% more Puncture damage (5.0 Multiplier) rather than just 60% (1.6 Multiplier). I've posted a clear calculation how the bug increases it's Puncture damage but lazy to dig.

[OptimumBow0]

Is it even worth it to get the Tigris?

[LukeAura]

Unfortunately someone has already cracked the optimal element set ups for maximum damage. And it isn't really that hard to figure out if you know the numbers.
The Hek is no longer inferior to the Sobek for as long as they're unpotatoed and not level 30. 
But once you can start heavily modding them its advantage goes away.  
Now go look at the Tigris and feel better about the Hek. Seriously. 

[Fedoreo]

Unfortunately someone has already cracked the optimal element set ups for maximum damage. And it isn't really that hard to figure out if you know the numbers.

The Hek is no longer inferior to the Sobek for as long as they're unpotatoed and not level 30. 

But once you can start heavily modding them its advantage goes away.  

Now go look at the Tigris and feel better about the Hek. Seriously. 

 

So then a heavily modded Hek is worse than a heavily modded Sobek?

[LukeAura]

So then a heavily modded Hek is worse than a heavily modded Sobek?

Pretty much. 

A base Hek is different from a base Sobek, unique, it does things Sobek can not. Sobek has a majority of advantages over the Hek, but there are things a base Hek can do that the base Sobek can't. 

So with mods, the Hek's advantage diminishes as the Sobek can use elements to make up for its lack of puncture damage. 

[Fedoreo]

Pretty much. 

A base Hek is different from a base Sobek, unique, it does things Sobek can not. Sobek has a majority of advantages over the Hek, but there are things a base Hek can do that the base Sobek can't. 

So with mods, the Hek's advantage diminishes as the Sobek can use elements to make up for its lack of puncture damage. 

 

So with the Hek why can it not use elements?

[LukeAura]

So with the Hek why can it not use elements?

It can, but enemies aren't sturdy enough now that Hek can't kill enemies that it specializes in at any noticeable rate faster over the Sobek. 

So once they're fully modded, you're basically looking at how the Hek and Sobek compared in damage 1.0. 

Hek works, but the Sobek is just better. 

 

[BleuNoir]

It can, but enemies aren't sturdy enough now that Hek can't kill enemies that it specializes in at any noticeable rate faster over the Sobek. 

So once they're fully modded, you're basically looking at how the Hek and Sobek compared in damage 1.0. 

Hek works, but the Sobek is just better. 

 

Isn't Hek better at puncture? Grineer have no shields at all now, and my Hek sits at a 1,100 something puncture with my Sobek evenly balanced in puncture/impact at 500 something each.

[LukeAura]

Isn't Hek better at puncture? Grineer have no shields at all now, and my Hek sits at a 1,100 something puncture with my Sobek evenly balanced in puncture/impact at 500 something each.

It is. 

But you can mod Sobek with corrosive damage to easily take out armored targets. 

You can mod the Hek with magnetic damage to take care of shields.

And enemies are generally weak enough that they will die fast to both when fully moded. 

But then you're right back to how they were in D1.0, where the Sobek was just so much better with its 20 rounds over the Hek's 4. 

 

[BleuNoir]

It is. 

But you can mod Sobek with corrosive damage to easily take out armored targets. 

You can mod the Hek with magnetic damage to take care of shields.

And enemies are generally weak enough that they will die fast to both when fully moded. 

But then you're right back to how they were in D1.0, where the Sobek was just so much better with its 20 rounds over the Hek's 4. 

 

IMO, I think Hek is generally better at hit and run, no aiming and high alpha with it's high reload and damage and still somewhat tight spread, still has it's niche and is not completely overshadowed by Sobek.

 

Sobek is more a defenders choice with the high magazine and potential DPS.

[LukeAura]

IMO, I think Hek is generally better at hit and run, no aiming and high alpha with it's high reload and damage and still somewhat tight spread, still has it's niche and is not completely overshadowed by Sobek.

 

Sobek is more a defenders choice with the high magazine and potential DPS.

Well, it does its Niche better than the Sobek, but the Sobek can still do it. Its not like whatever the Hek can do, the Sobek can't. 

While the Sobek can do its Niche, but the Hek can't at all because of how often it has to Reload. 

 

[ReiganCross]

Well, it does its Niche better than the Sobek, but the Sobek can still do it. Its not like whatever the Hek can do, the Sobek can't. 

While the Sobek can do its Niche, but the Hek can't at all because of how often it has to Reload. 

 

 

I love all that talk about Sobek... When the Sobek Reload time is a piece of irreversible S#&$, no matter how much Tactical Pump you put into it, at least the Hek reloads almost instantly.... I seriously think i can put off 8 shots while the Sobek reloads alone... Which gives a LOT more inertia then that damn Sobek, especially if you're a Reload OCD like i am that tries to reload after every kill...

[LukeAura]

I love all that talk about Sobek... When the Sobek Reload time is a piece of irreversible S#&$, no matter how much Tactical Pump you put into it, at least the Hek reloads almost instantly.... I seriously think i can put off 8 shots while the Sobek reloads alone... Which gives a LOT more inertia then that damn Sobek, especially if you're a Reload OCD like i am that tries to reload after every kill...

Hek reloads at about 2.2 seconds. It certainly isn't instant, it's just a little worse than standard for guns.  

Sobek reloads at 4 seconds. 

Sobek can make 20 shots for 4 seconds of reload. Damage in 4 seconds worth of reload for the Sobek is 20*100=2000. burst dps = 250

Hek can make 20 shots for 11 seconds of reload. Damage in 4 second worth of reload for the Hek is 8*140= 1040(Here is your big issue with the Hek. This number should be greater than the Sobek's). burst dps= 308(58 more base points, significant favour but sustained dps will severely favour Sobek.). 

You're arguing a small case based on personal preference for a tactical reload where it really isn't necessary. 

If reloading after 1 shot is that big of an issue for you, use the Hek, nothing wrong with that. You're missing out on a lot of increased usability with the Sobek, but the Hek works. 

It's not bad, it's just hilariously outclassed by a gun that can pull off a wider variety of situations and do a pretty good job of them all. 

It needs to be made a side grade for everyone, not just those paranoid about reloading after every shot. 

[Cwierz]

Hek reloads at about 2.2 seconds. It certainly isn't instant, it's just a little worse than standard for guns.  

Sobek reloads at 4 seconds. 

Sobek can make 20 shots for 4 seconds of reload. Damage in 4 seconds worth of reload for the Sobek is 20*100=2000. burst dps = 250

Hek can make 20 shots for 11 seconds of reload. Damage in 4 second worth of reload for the Hek is 8*140= 1040(Here is your big issue with the Hek. This number should be greater than the Sobek's). burst dps= 308(58 more base points, significant favour but sustained dps will severely favour Sobek.). 

You're arguing a small case based on personal preference for a tactical reload where it really isn't necessary. 

If reloading after 1 shot is that big of an issue for you, use the Hek, nothing wrong with that. You're missing out on a lot of increased usability with the Sobek, but the Hek works. 

It's not bad, it's just hilariously outclassed by a gun that can pull off a wider variety of situations and do a pretty good job of them all. 

It needs to be made a side grade for everyone, not just those paranoid about reloading after every shot. 

I will agree, the sobek is still better, but I am just way to used to the hek to even think about using a different shotgun. I would like to see it brought up to par however, considering the fact is is the theoretical hardest to obtain if you don't count the boar prime.

[LukeAura]

I will agree, the sobek is still better, but I am just way to used to the hek to even think about using a different shotgun. I would like to see it brought up to par however, considering the fact is is the theoretical hardest to obtain if you don't count the boar prime.

Oh for sure. 

A unique damage focus doesn't cut it. 

The Hek needs real advantages over the Sobek to be used, as does the Tigris. 

 

[Shikazure]

does the sobek have anything on the Strun Wraith though?

[LukeAura]

does the sobek have anything on the Strun Wraith though?

Much higher magazine. 

Full Auto. 

Higher status chance, even if all pellets procc individually Sobek still comes out on top with 4*15=60 over Straiths 10*5=50. 

I think its spread is a little tighter and it doesn't fall off quite as fast but I'm not sure on those. 

[Shikazure]

Much higher magazine. 

Full Auto. 

Higher status chance, even if all pellets procc individually Sobek still comes out on top with 4*15=60 over Straiths 10*5=50. 

I think its spread is a little tighter and it doesn't fall off quite as fast but I'm not sure on those. 

i know the basic stat differences but hows the comparable is the DPS. i still need to go mod hunting and mayba forma the Strun Wraith a couple times to fit the corrosive damage on it

[LukeAura]

i know the basic stat differences but hows the comparable is the DPS. i still need to go mod hunting and mayba forma the Strun Wraith a couple times to fit the corrosive damage on it

1.7(Sustained fire rate Straith)*150= 255

1.66(Sustained fire rate Sobek)*100=166

There may be some small loss in Straith sustained dps because of semi-auto fire delaying the next shot.  

I can show you the calculations if you like, I'm fairly sure they're correct. 

[TickityTock]

What about the current Sobek vs Boar Prime?

[Shikazure]

im pretty sure boar prime is better than sobek

[fatpig84]

Sobek will always win with sustained DPS alone, because it gets the best benefits of ammo stock period.

So no point arguing unless you get a BP or Swraith, even then Sobek will still edge them out.

 

No other shotguns can beat that sustained DPS.

 

 

But other shotguns have higher alpha/damage per hit except the boar series.

So use that to your advantage.

Edited November 24, 2013 by fatpig84

[LukeAura]

Sobek will always win with sustained DPS alone, because it gets the best benefits of ammo stock period.

So no point arguing unless you get a BP or Swraith, even then Sobek will still edge them out.

 

No other shotguns can beat that sustained DPS.

 

 

But other shotguns have higher alpha/damage per hit except the boar series.

So use that to your advantage.

Straith even at 150 damage still has higher sustained dps over Ammo stock Sobek. 

Edit; Not sure if its intended or not but after checking the Sobek's base damage it is actually 120 right now. 

Meaning its sustained dps with Ammo stock is... 229. 

And without Ammo stock 200. 

Still worse than the Straith, but significantly closer. 

 

Edited November 24, 2013 by LukeAura