A Complete Rework Of The Foundation Of Warframe.

[CosyPigeon]

Best post on the entire forum. Give OP a job DE, they deserve it. I would buy another founders pack just to play the game they describe. 

[lucio1019]

I see you still don't quite understand. Each tree would be equivalent to having a level 30 Frame without polarities or supercharge, and a number of mod slots equal to the number of upgrades in the tree (as I understand it, it's less of a tree and more of a conglomerate of comparable skills, you wouldn't HAVE to invest points in Redirection to unlock Fast Deflection, for example - correct me if I'm wrong, tGZ). Now, whether or not you want to fill ALL of those mod slots with low-rank mods, or have a few really strong ones is up to you.

 

And he's not proposing to "take away the freedom to pick mods". He's giving us the freedom to bring extras that we want without impacting our defense or offense. To put it in a GOOD analogy, we'd be getting the option to add cup-holders to a car without being forced to lose the airbags or 100 horsepower. What your analogy (parents telling us what to do at every second) deals with is micromanagement, which is an entirely different concept.

 

I think you are not understand what I am saying.

 

Now, I can sacrifice other thing, power/ultility to fulfill MY CHOICE to max my defense ability. In OP's propose, this choice get taken away. Unless you are brave enough to say: ALL the power/ultility/defense WILL BE MAX, NOTHING need be sacrificed too fulfill that. In this case, you are basicly saying: NO LIMITE will be imposed.

[Volthorne]

I think you are not understand what I am saying.

 

Now, I can sacrifice other thing, power/ultility to fulfill MY CHOICE to max my defense ability. In OP's propose, this choice get taken away. Unless you are brave enough to say: ALL the power/ultility/defense WILL BE MAX, NOTHING need be sacrificed too fulfill that. In this case, you are basicly saying: NO LIMITE will be imposed.

So in other words you want to KEEP your touchy-feely god-Frame that has thousands of health/shields? You seem to have developed a double-standard here, where you want restrictions on what the player can do, yet you also want to give them absolute freedom (because reasons). I don't know about you but I would rather have visible, hard-capped restrictions to what I can and cannot do rather than the invisible rail-road bullS#&$ we have now (Yeah, you could take Intruder, or Thief's Wit, but what are you willing to give up to have those? 90% of your shields? Half of your ability power?).

 

A choice isn't a choice if you're forced to pick from a select group of mods that are objectively good (Redirection, Vitality, Vigor, Fast Deflection, Fortitude, Flow, Streamline, Focus, Stretch, etc.) and a select group that are objectively bad (everything else). Name one situation where you'd want to take Handspring or Parry - or even one of the damage resistances - over Redirection. The answer is: never.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Volthorne

[tmtke]

I see you still don't quite understand. Each tree would be equivalent to having a level 30 Frame without polarities or supercharge, and a number of mod slots equal to the number of upgrades in the tree (as I understand it, it's less of a tree and more of a conglomerate of comparable skills, you wouldn't HAVE to invest points in Redirection to unlock Fast Deflection, for example - correct me if I'm wrong, tGZ). Now, whether or not you want to fill ALL of those mod slots with low-rank mods, or have a few really strong ones is up to you.

And he's not proposing to "take away the freedom to pick mods". He's giving us the freedom to bring extras that we want without impacting our defense or offense. To put it in a GOOD analogy, we'd be getting the option to add cup-holders to a car without being forced to lose the airbags or 100 horsepower. What your analogy (parents telling us what to do at every second) deals with is micromanagement, which is an entirely different concept.

As most of the critics were saying, the whole OP doesn't differ that much from the current mod system (speaking of warframes now), apart of the facts that the mods would be called skills, the players would get 3 different skill trees, and some fuzzy details on how they will progress. But before I'm being hunted down for "not reading" (again), let's see what the OP says, piece by piece on this topic:

The key is creating a means in which the player can utilize mods like Intruder, without having them share the same space as Redirection or Focus. When your Warframe increases in level, they receive a flat increase to things like shields, energy and health. But unlike now, the increases would be a bit more significant.

Which means, buff the base stats increase over level progression.

Along with receiving a boots to stats upon leveling, players receive points to spend in their skill tree. Each branch of the tree pulls from its own pool of points. So for each level you are given 1 point to spend per tree.

Which tells us that we will have 30 skill points per tree, this sums up to 90 skill points on the end.

Because you are pulling points from different pools, it eliminates one of the largest downsides of the current system. Mods like Intruder having to share the same space as mods like Focus or Redirection.

It is basically: give me moar mod slots! Yes, Focus, Intruder and Redirection will not share the same space, but Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, Antitoxin, Warm Coat, Lightning Rod, Flame Repellent, Diamond Skin (or their skill equivalent) will share the same space (as they are on the same tree: Systems), and while you won't get them by default, you will still have to choose what you will spend points on. Giving flat increase on every resistance and every stat would be foolish I think (this part is not really detailed in the OP, only the "base stat" is there, resistances are not), it won't encourage skill related play at all (which is the main point here). Same goes to the other trees, you still need to choose the Utility skill you want most, maybe you will power up that skill instead of getting another.

Below the branches are the roots. These root are base stat increases. They are unlocked upon reaching the required Mastery Rank. The higher your Mastery Rank, the more powerful your Warframe becomes. These roots will contain increases in things like power range, shield and stamina totals. These create an innate boots to your Warframe making choices made above more potent, as well as rewarding the player for increasing their Mastery Rank.

This is where my eyes were popped out. Upon buffing base stat increase (above), Mastery levelling also gives stat boosts? What for? Or, in a more skill related context, why does one gets stat increase on all of his not yet acquired warframes?

Ok, so every warframe has their own skill tree, where the player can choose the "shield boost" skill which is now Redirection mod. If I want more shield, I will level this up, and on higher mastery rank I will have the base stat increase for maxed warframe, the mastery bonus and the skill bonus also. On every different warframe. Well, this sounds reasonable (but really overpowered), but you have to realize that each skill points you get (levelling up a warframe takes XP) have to be distributed. This leads to these problems:
* If I'll get 30 pts total for a skill tree, how will I be able to power up shield skill to max level? What will the skill levels mean? 1 point == 1 skill level?
* 30 pts total also means that if I want to level up a skill, there will be others which I can't level up, because I would be out of points when I reach level 30.
* If each spent skill point would increase the skill, giving the stat boost, it would mean that a frame could be maxed in a really short time, but with either a limited but maxed skill set or a low level, diverse skill set. Option 1. is the current situation, option 2. is far worse.
* If I check on loadouts, how can I rearrange my trees? Skill points are already spent on things. This is not a problem, if I can start over and spend all the points again technically, but will lead to the same results we're having now: choosing some fixed skills (more shields, armor, health, power range/efficiency), and some marginal, which aren't maxed nowhere near to their ideal level.
* Making it lvl 1 skill = +1 skill pt, lvl 2 = +2 pts, lvl n = +(n * 2) would make the max level problem worse (lvl 30 max means you can't have one skill on more than 4 levels (1+2+4+8+16 = 31), if we lower this to lvl n = +n skill pts (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 31) which means one lvl 8 skill, or more distributed. If we be gettin' one skill level per spent points, then the frame levelling XP amounts should be increased to insanely high numbers for compensating the above maths, or there will be no point to level up a frame, because it'll be sooo easy.

While the Power and Systems trees create a standard progression of powers with trade offs; the Utility trees does the opposite. Instead of having to plug points into a skill or modification to get higher up the tree, you can pick any Utility power at anytime. There is no progression to the tree aside from putting multiple points into the same power to increase its effectiveness. If you want Maglev, you got it. If you want a bunch of energy, you got it.

Ok, I don't have to "buy" it for 1 skill point, but if they are useful on level 1, why do I have to power them up? Makes no sense to me, because players will exploit this easily, because they can power up the more useful utilities first, and leave the rest. The often cited Intruder will be on the downside again, because 1. Mostly anybody can solve the current patterns easily, 2. If you're bad at this, you can build cheap ciphers without spending real world money, so it is a non issue. Well, if some more complexity or different minigames will be implemented, this skill/mod will shine, but this is exactly the reason why I see the problems more in the gameplay details instead of the mod system (yes, I already read your current rambling on this topic). Edited December 26, 2013 by tmtke

[Khobai]

1. Necessary mods

     Serration, point blank, focus, hornet strike, pressure point, vitality, redirection and other damage or health boosting mods need to be made an automatic part of leveling each weapon and frame. Right now we have realistically only 1 or 2 mod slots per weapon and maybe 1 per frame that we can actually safely play with.

 

Agreed. For example, Redirection could be reduced from 440% to 230% extra shields (also adjust the cost accordingly). And then you could just get an extra 7% shields each level automatically (7% x 30 levels = 210%). That would put Redirection more in line with other mods like Vigor. Vigor only gives 120%/120%, so why does Redirection give 440%? Doesnt make any sense.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Khobai

[Volthorne]

 It is basically: give me moar mod slots! Yes, Focus, Intruder and Redirection will not share the same space, but Redirection, Vitality, Steel Fiber, Antitoxin, Warm Coat, Lightning Rod, Flame Repellent, Diamond Skin (or their skill equivalent) will share the same space (as they are on the same tree: Systems), and while you won't get them by default, you will still have to choose what you will spend points on. Giving flat increase on every resistance and every stat would be foolish I think (this part is not really detailed in the OP, only the "base stat" is there, resistances are not), it won't encourage skill related play at all (which is the main point here). Same goes to the other trees, you still need to choose the Utility skill you want most, maybe you will power up that skill instead of getting another.

 

Because the current system is ANY better in terms of promoting "skill related" play.

This is where my eyes were popped out. Upon buffing base stat increase (above), Mastery levelling also gives stat boosts? What for? Or, in a more skill related context, why does one gets stat increase on all of his not yet acquired warframes?

Mastery Rank is supposed to represent you, as a player (or character) getting stronger. This is easily solved lore-wise: change the challenges to reflect the bonuses you'd get. If your next Mastery Rank bonus is increased shields or shield regen, put the player through a challenge where they get no weapons or energy, one hp, and must survive for X amount of time. This might also mean that MR tests not using revives would have to be implemented, but I'm sure absolutely no one would be upset over that.

 

And you could make the MR bonuses flat values instead of percentages, applying after the skill bonuses, if you're really worried about players getting too strong.

 

Ok, so every warframe has their own skill tree, where the player can choose the "shield boost" skill which is now Redirection mod. If I want more shield, I will level this up, and on higher mastery rank I will have the base stat increase for maxed warframe, the mastery bonus and the skill bonus also. On every different warframe. Well, this sounds reasonable (but really overpowered), but you have to realize that each skill points you get (levelling up a warframe takes XP) have to be distributed. This leads to these problems:

* If I'll get 30 pts total for a skill tree, how will I be able to power up shield skill to max level? What will the skill levels mean? 1 point == 1 skill level?

* 30 pts total also means that if I want to level up a skill, there will be others which I can't level up, because I would be out of points when I reach level 30.

* If each spent skill point would increase the skill, giving the stat boost, it would mean that a frame could be maxed in a really short time, but with either a limited but maxed skill set or a low level, diverse skill set. Option 1. is the current situation, option 2. is far worse.

* If I check on loadouts, how can I rearrange my trees? Skill points are already spent on things. This is not a problem, if I can start over and spend all the points again technically, but will lead to the same results we're having now: choosing some fixed skills (more shields, armor, health, power range/efficiency), and some marginal, which aren't maxed nowhere near to their ideal level.

* Making it lvl 1 skill = +1 skill pt, lvl 2 = +2 pts, lvl n = +(n * 2) would make the max level problem worse (lvl 30 max means you can't have one skill on more than 4 levels (1+2+4+8+16 = 31), if we lower this to lvl n = +n skill pts (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 31) which means one lvl 8 skill, or more distributed. If we be gettin' one skill level per spent points, then the frame levelling XP amounts should be increased to insanely high numbers for compensating the above maths, or there will be no point to level up a frame, because it'll be sooo easy.

Skill (mod) point distribution should be something we - as players - should have to be worried about. As it stands right now, polarities and supercharging essentially eliminate the mod-point pool (you will almost never be able to spend all 60 points on a max polarity, supercharged Frame, without losing one or more of your skills), so the only restriction is slots, which, as we can see from the current system, just isn't viable. I personally wouldn't be opposed to an increase in exp requirements for leveling up Frames, because as it stands I could have an extra 2 Frames at level 30 just from all the extra exp on my Volt (this is also an indicator of bad exp distribution algorithms) - and probably another 2 or 3 from the combined extra exp on my Mag Prime and (now sold) Excalibur.

Ok, I don't have to "buy" it for 1 skill point, but if they are useful on level 1, why do I have to power them up? Makes no sense to me, because players will exploit this easily, because they can power up the more useful utilities first, and leave the rest. The often cited Intruder will be on the downside again, because 1. Mostly anybody can solve the current patterns easily, 2. If you're bad at this, you can build cheap ciphers without spending real world money, so it is a non issue. Well, if some more complexity or different minigames will be implemented, this skill/mod will shine, but this is exactly the reason why I see the problems more in the gameplay details instead of the mod system (yes, I already read your current rambling on this topic).

The trick here is to make them WORTH leveling up. If Intruder was worth taking for the extra 1 second at level 1, how could you provide incentive for further increasing it? What if every other level of Intruder allowed you to lock one additional piece in place (level 5 intruder would be +5s and +2 pieces to lock)? That would, of course, require - as you yourself stated - an increase in difficulty in hacking mini-games, such as slightly larger puzzles (minimum +2 pieces, maximum +4) and pieces "drifting" out of alignment after a short period (3s?), along with the removal of Cipher consumables? Good hackers might not need to level up Intruder, but it would still be useful for them. Players with Intruder would become more valuable and this would also have the benefit of promoting stealth so you don't spend valuable time waiting for the hack to be completed or needing to be done in the first place. Thief's Wit could increase the number of loot items enemies drop, Master Thief could make rarer drops more common (materials and mods), Parry could gain an AoE, Reflex Guard could generate a small shield when it procs. There's so much you could do, and all it takes is a little imagination.

[SkyllianBlitz]

No. No skill trees. Never again. Anyone who was here before Update 7 will know what I mean.

[Paprika]

 The melee thing is the only thing I'm hung up on. I'm still working through all of it after skimming it. Just sharing some initial thoughts.

 

 It sounds incredible (Is it partially inspired by Remember Me?) but I think Melee, while needing a big change, has to stay quick and easy to remember across all weapons.

 

 I'd go for big alterations to it, but not go quite as far as you. 

 

 I've always kinda figured adopting a version of Vindictus' simple melee combo system would be appropriate. Along the lines of:

 

-Tapping E is quick melee attacks. Not very damaging. Good at staggering, some weapons will even push foes backwards.

-Holding E will now equip melee weapons. Welcome to 'Melee mode'. Press F any time to return to your last equipped gun.

 

 

-Left click is now light attack. All Melee weapons (Divided by type: Longsword, Spear, ect) get a string of 4 of these for a combo. They aren't incredibly damaging, but pretty good at staggering. They also wont hinder your motion much.

-Right click is now heavy attack. Interrupting your light attack chain with a heavy attack will do a 'Smash'. All melee weapons have 5 smashes total, each acting a bit different. Right clicking all on its lonesome is a different attack then right clicking at the end of the 4 light attack combo. It all flows together, but it pathetically easy to remember and use.

I want to see an implementation that takes combines both the idea above and the stated idea in the original post. The stances define the simple animations, and the different left click/right click combos act as chain/energy/health/etc. combos. Also, in addition to passive upgrades to base damage and stats, it would be nice to also affect behavior of combos such as chained combos leading to greater crit chance for each successive hit.

[RiotKitten]

All I have to say is that I've spent hours upon hours of farming and rushing and doing missions as quickly as possible without actually taking my sweet time to enjoy the game just as you said most people do. I remember soloing and taking my time a few times when I first started playing; as I reached my 250 hour mark I decided I would soak in the game with a solo missions and take my time with making my warframe's colors match the tileset, using specific weapons, etc. I realized the game is good; the game is NOT as good as it could be.

Even with all my time invested now, I'd love for them to change the system to a form like this even if that meant setting everyone back a bit.

[wewew47]

Read through your other posts and I have to say, they make a lot of sense. But I think all of this is a huge task, and DE can't really have another huge update with the mod system, dojo and UI/gear. And if it was in smaller updates it would take quite a while, not to mention getting rid of potatoes and forma is getting rid of an important source of revenue for the devs. The Dojo idea is really good, as is the gear/radial wheel idea, and is something which I think is quite important, at the moment gear is rarely used and the same goes for the clans, with players only going there for clantech and trading, which is also flawed. The mods are in desperate need of change, but I think it is too late to change the system now, although some smaller updates which remove or limit mods like serration and buff other mods would be useful and a step in the right direction. If the skill tree system was implemented then I think it would be much better than the mods system, but again, I can't see it happening.

Edited December 29, 2013 by wewew47

[Innocent_Flower]

Never seen such an articulate post on a forum. 

 

 

I'd say this. For weapons this is the kind of system i'd like. 

 

Ranking up weapons gives you points. 

You can put points in to 

slash damage

puncture damage

Impact damage.

Rate of fire. 

Recoil reduction. 

Reload speed

One or two elemental damages. 

 

 

 

THEN on top of that you can add mods (which also use points). You'd have to find these and this'd be stuff that'd add bonuses and detrimental effects. Stuff like..

Heavy calibre

Noise reduction

Exploding arrows. 

Split chamber (which should use one ammo for each shot.) 

Bullet types (which sacrifice other damage types for one) 

Magazine size. 

ammo mutations

 

 

 

It'd be the same with warframes. Stuff like health, armour, speed and power efficiency will be innate that players can add points too. Players will be able to add further misc stuff like bleedout reduction, specific resistances,  and so on and so forth when they have the items that provide them. 

[seiryuo]

I wanted to read the entire topic, but after I saw how many pages there are I gave up - so I'll refer only to the original post.

Mod system isn't half as bad as you make it look like. It has problems though - with the biggest one being the fact that power mods take up slots(seriously, wtf I'm forced to choose between my frame's theme mods and utility mods?). Imho they should have their own dedicated slots just like auras and be without power cost(they should however be still gained from drops). That would effectively free up 2-4 slots and thus allow a greater customization for the frame.
I totally agree with the idea of removal pure damage mods(faction damage mods should stay though) - their very presence in the game is ridiculous, since they are a must have. Adding passive damage increase along with leveling the weapon up seems nice, also again it would free up a mod slot(or 2 since alot of ppl use heavy caliber also) for further weapon customization.
Twitch the "weaker" mods into becoming actually useful. Auras need a total rework, since I suppose 90% of the players run only with ES.

As for the skill tree idea - I don't like it and I don't agree with it. I'm okay with having the possibility of doing something wrong even if in the end it will make me fight (type the name of the boss here) solo cause the rest just died. If you don't fail something you won't learn - using the correct mods is a skill in itself - just like getting a skill tree that suits your playstyle - and I find it fun.
Drop rate however is a totally different story and an annoying one, some mods like Split Chamber that are stated to be "rare" should be stated as "legendary". But it's still better than getting everything you want on the get-go

Not sure what to make out of the proposal that you made for melee

 

Ask yourself what kind of mods we will have 2 years from now.

No offense but this one statement qualifies under "stupid" since you're proposing an exact same thing - a skill tree that would ALSO be static(even worse since you have more versatility with the mod system than you would have with a skill tree).


Leaving mods aside the real problem of the game is the poor design - after you get the things that you wanted there is basically NOTHING left to do :|. There either needs to be added a very nice lore/more challenging(challenging - not overpowered) encounters/bigger maps to the game or it will be a fail

[Inberun]

DE pls read this

[Hydrium]

This is far too complicated for DE to get right.

[Kiteless]

Has DE acknowledged this thread's existence yet? Regardless of the quality of ideas themselves (I personally think that it's pretty solid, although there are bound to be a few kinks), the fact that a revamp like this seems not only so reasonable just goes to show how bloated the mod system has become, and how it just doesn't work anymore.

[NoDisco]

Clear clever thorough suggestion.+1

[merryfistmas]

An excellent solution to the horrible mod system. As they continue to making updates and adding content with the current mod system, more and more problems are emerging. The mod pool gets more diluted every time mods are added, more mandatory mods are being added meaning players have fewer and fewer mod slots to customize, and with the introduction of dual mods, people can min-max even more.

 

I agree with everything.

[PenutReaper]

I have to say, this is a really interesting idea. I like it.

[Luminati07]

This is far too complicated for DE to get right.

I lol'd.

 

No. No skill trees. Never again. Anyone who was here before Update 7 will know what I mean.

I was here before update 7, and I say hell yes to the OP's system.

 

I'll take it you only skimmed the OP? Because if you read it thoroughly, you would understand that it is absolutely nothing like the old skill tree, and is miles better than the current mod card system.

[theGreatZamboni]

My issue now is that DE stated in Livestream 20 they want this to be a loot based game. Which puts the writing on the wall. With that mentality, the game will continue to suffer. The stagnation and power creep I continually speak of has already reared its ugly head again with the recent event mod cards. How many more dual purpose cards are we going to get until every possible concept is covered? I'm finding it hard to bring myself to finish these ideas based on the lack of feedback from the powers at be and the direction/ confirmation that this game is to forever be loot driven. The problem with this is you have craft your items and the game is instanced based. This is not Torchlight where you find guns in the field that scale with level, guns you equip and sell when you find something better. Once you get a mod card, you keep it. Unless you sell it or fuse it, you keep most mods. The mods cannot be as diverse as variations between gear drops as they fit into a progressive system. The issue is things like HP and flat damage modifiers are tied to a system separate from the guns/weapons themselves. There are not 200+ variations of the Gorgon that could drop. The idea of the game being instanced also plays against the want to be a loot based game. If you cannot switch to and immediately try out your new loot the moment you get it, you take away an essential part of other loot based actions games.

 

I can and will express my disdain for this coming out and saying they want this game to be loot based in a more concise manner, but only after I get some sleep. The livestream has left me in a state of complete apathy. This need to excuse or ignore their shortcomings by trying to point out all the "good" things they have done, left me shaking my head. Scott's flippant use of the word "grind" as a blase and interchangeable word for "gameplay" also dampened any remaining enthusiasm I had. I made this thread for DE to see. For me to have to ask Community Moderators if DE even looked at it, really irks me.

Edited March 30, 2014 by theGreatZamboni

[MenschOfUber]

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe Rebecca when recapping what was said early in the livestream stated that the mod system was not going to go away or be changed, well I guess we know  how they feel about this now.

[Luminati07]

My issue now is that DE stated in Livestream 20 they want this to be a loot based game. Which puts the writing on the wall. With that mentality, the game will continue to suffer. The stagnation and power creep I continually speak of has already reared its ugly head again with the recent event mod cards. How many more dual purpose cards are we going to get until every possible concept is covered? I'm am finding it hard to bring myself to finish these ideas based on the lack of feedback from the powers at be and the direction/ confirmation that this game is to forever be loot driven. The problem with this is, you have craft your items and the game is instanced based. This is not Torchlight where you find guns in the field that scale with level, guns you equip and sell when you find something better. Once you get a mod card, you keep it. Unless you sell it or fuse it, you keep most mods. The mods cannot be as diverse as variations between gear drops as they fit into a progressive system. The issue is things like HP and flat damage modifiers are tied to a system separate from the guns/weapons themselves. There are not 200+ variations of the Gorgon that could drop. The idea of the game being instanced also plays against the want to be a loot based game. If you cannot switch to and immediately try out your new loot the moment you get it, you take away an essential part of other loot based actions games.

 

I can and will express my disdain for this coming out and saying they want this game to be loot based in a more concise manner, but only after I get some sleep. The livestream has left me in a state of complete apathy. This need to excuse or ignore their shortcomings by trying to point out all the "good" things they have done, left me shaking my head. Scott's flippant use of the word "grind" as a blase and interchangeable word for "gameplay" also dampened any remaining enthusiasm I had. I made this thread for DE to see. For me to have to ask Community Moderators if DE even looked at it, really irks me.

Watching that livestream was almost insulting.

 

When confronted with the difficult questions.

Instead of actually addressing them, they gave the impression of "Oh, you guys are wrong, just look at all the great stuff we've done".

 

For those who have been here for while (Though, I'm not speaking for everyone), I actually felt insulted with that.

 

Completely disregarding all the negative feedback and just saying "Oh, but we did this, this and this" is an extremely lazy way of going about it.

I hope to God that the next livestream actually has some real info in it.

[Technic235]

In regards to the OP

 

Not sure about the roots "tree," though. I dont like the idea of a linear tree that only has one route like your pictures show. If they branched out into (at least) 3 different routes, THEN I could get on board. I understand its supposed to be a general buff so its easier for the Devs to design levels for certain mastery ranks, but I dont like the idea of everyone always taking the same route even if it is in something like that. I would prefer the roots tree to have 3 or more routes.

 

Heres an example of what a melee weapon's root tree might consist of; increased charge damage/speed, increased attack damage/speed, stealth branch (increased damage to stealth attacks/crits, 2 or more seconds of invisibility after any melee stealth kill - stacks, etc), utility branch (increased damage to all elementals, increased proc chance, deflect more damage while parrying, etc), and possibly more. Would help further differentiate players and their choices.

 

I scratched out the rest since Ive changed my opinion on some things, after reading a few replies, and dont feel like writing them all down. Basically Im not in favor of skill trees for warframes but do like the points idea.

 

*Edit: Nay to the warframe skill trees but yay to the skill points, and rewarding one per level, per "region" (survivability, abilitys and utility). The skill trees would mean no new mods (a static system) while the points would allow you to equip many more mods in their respective regions. Of course, that would mean every existing mods stats would need to be reduced (per level) since there would be more points available to spend but still, in general, the idea is sound.

 

YAY to the warframe and melee ideas. NAY to the attachments idea.

 

The only problem I have with your warframes section is not having to level mods; that you only have to put points into them to level them. I think leveling them should unlock the higher levels, then actually using those levels would require you to spend mastery tree points. I only say this since many people have spent many hours on the current mod system so completely doing away with their levels might be an unwise idea. But I do agree with it it general.

 

 

I dont necessarily like the attachments idea. Maybe just add something like a stat tree, like in FFX, that would get better stats in certain areas based on which branch you take. And of course, the final "leaf" would have the greatest stat increase, which would basically determine which branch you choose. Anyways, just my two cents.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Technic235

[NikolaiLev]

This is far too complicated for DE to get right.

 

This is far too free of profit incentive for DE to bother with.

 

You can't charge platinum for an improved game, and if the forum community is any evidence (which it really isn't, since forums make up a minority of any given playerbase) then people don't want a better game, they just want more grind to keep them distracted.

Edited January 11, 2014 by NikolaiLev

[Zirion_Bk]

Well, I don't see many issues with your proposed system, just a few questions:

Why Remember Me's strike system? Why not some system where you can throw in a upgrade to the blade that gives it one special effect? (Health/energy drain, armor corrosion, elemental proc and so on) And why would you implement timed combos into a fast-paced kill-before-you-think game like Warframe, where almost every enemy can stagger and interrupt your combos?

 

Will you update the skill path (Not tree based on your images) for warframes with image examples of what you can get and what you have to choose between? 

 

Why remove potatoes and Formas? Can't they play a role in the proposed system? (For example, Forma allowing you to split damage in a weapon, transferring impact damage to puncture or slash and potatoes allowing you to increase one stat on a weapon)