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An Encounter With Stalker.


Kinperor
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Hello there. Herein, I would like to share my most recent fight with the Stalker. Although I have an opinion on Stalker and his power level, I will keep it for the end.

(watch in high definition if you can, I try my best to bring quality videos to you)

 

 

 

 

A couple of things happened in this video, you will be excused for not understanding everything, and in an attempt to facilitate your comprehension I will break down the fight piece by piece. The primary objective of this thread is to inform the developers about how a fight with the Stalker goes, with pictures and video to back my explanation. 

 

Pre-fight:

 

Frost Prime: I've been working on my Frost recently, I removed two of his ability polarities to place D polarities instead, with the goal of making him very durable, even without Snow Globe. 2 Forma isn't a lot, but it did the job just fine for this build. After all my defensive mods were put in, I clock at 1290 shields, 356 armor and 817 health. Unfortunately, Stalker came knocking when I was only half ready: I had very little useful mods beyond my resistances. Rush and Fast Deflection are ok, Snow Globe and the complimentary duration mods were useless (I'll come to that point later). The last details however, are pretty irrelevant. Little more mods could've been useful against Stalker (I want to try Reflector against him, but I don't want to be bitterly disappointed nor do I want to waste space on the off-chance that Stalker will come). 

 

 

1385483416-frost-prime-build.png

 

 

Supra: I've been working on my Supra recently, since it is strongly more interesting in damage 2.0. The unfortunate consequence of that was that it was un-maxed and modded for a different purpose. At rank 25, I still had 10 more mod points I could've fitted in. Maybe that Corrosion is useful on Stalker, I don't know honestly. However that was what I had on my Supra, along with Heavy Caliber, Split Chamber and Serration. Ideally, in a fight against Stalker, I would've brought my Dera. It was maxed, it has the same number of stars but is more suited for a mobile fight. Regardless, that was what I had against Stalker (nothing to scoff at, if I may say so myself).

 

 

1385483401-supra-build.png

 

 

Brakk: I had my Brakk on hand to deal with the weakness of my Supra: Supra is mighty, but shields (just like rainbows) makes it cry. As such, my Brakk was heavily modded with impact damage to compliment my primary. I haven't forma'd my Brakk, neither did I consider it necessary. The modding wasn't the most suited for the task of killing Stalker, but well, when your pants are down, they are down. And it is Stalker's bread and butter that to capitalize on downed pants, like the animal that he is. 

 

 

1385483405-brakk-build.png

 

 

Sentinel: Butterback, my valiant Wyrm, can honestly be disregarded. I had it's laser rifle pitifully modded in order to compare his reload speed with or without Fast Hand modded in. However, he does have Guardian, and I regenerated my shields once thanks to him. Not that it helped much. 

 

Equipment overall: Good equipment, it could be used handily into a tier III defense with little difficulties. However, the modding was less than optimal in nearly every weapon, only the Frame and Brakk was properly ready to face the Stalker, and the Brakk could only go so far. With all things considered, this is the best set-up I had to purposefully face Stalker and hopefully win, your average garden variety player would probably not have that much defenses to begin with, and depending on the players could have horribly un-modded weapons.

 

Readiness level: Considering that I was over-equipped for a 15-20 levels mission on Eris, that I am a seasoned players (MR 12 for those who cares) which heard plenty about Stalker beforehand, I rate myself at 70% ready (100% being fully modded with godly weapons and 0% being New-Excalibur with a newly polarized starter set, including the frame) for an encounter. To be honest, my skill was lacking and I could've done better moves all around, but my sub par Supra didn't help either, and Brakk was pretty much only for shields, hence why I tried Supra at all in this fight. 

 

 

-----

 

Mid-Fight:

 

Snow Globe: In order to avoid planting a Snow Globe and trapping myself with Stalker inside, I planted it early in order to have it near in case I needed a breather in the fight. With the Globe placed early, I was certain to be able to not be stun-teleported on by Stalker, who would punish me for using my ability. Do notice how useless my Globe was in hindsight, since Stalker just teleported me outside of it.

 

First face-off: Things happens really quickly here: I walk toward Stalker to both test my anti-shield Brakk to it's fullest and try to bait Stalker into using his melee. My original plan was to bait melees and roll away as much as possible, in order to keep him from using his terribly strong ranged weapons, which I would very probably be unable to dodge. 

 

-- What happened instead: Me and Stalker had a very short brawl, under a second he breaks through my shield and I break through his shield. Me, assuming he would melee any time, roll away with 2 bullets left in my Brakk. My sentinel quickly refill my shield after the short encounter. 

 

-- Do notice this: In about 2 seconds, Stalker uses his Despair to empty my shield in the first second, then in the second that follows switches weapon twice. Let that sink in. I would like to point out that frame-by-frame viewing shows that he shoots one arrow before even finishing the animation of throwing the Despair he was in the process of throwing.

 

-- Stalker finished on his own term: Stalker finish the first face-off by striding laterally, off the "balcony" we stand on. Mid stride, his accuracy remains the same insane accuracy he has when standing, while we're both moving pretty fast. 

 

Breather: I switch to my Supra in the downtime that Stalker gave me by jumping down. More importantly, I keep moving. Stalker is known to teleport and one-hit people that let their guard down. Shockingly, he finishes the breather session by teleporting me instead. I can only assume he does that whenever he doesn't reach someone or because I stepped into my globe.

 

Second face-off: I didn't expect to be teleported to Stalker instead, catching me completely off-guard. I try to shoot him, but as you may know the Supra is not suited for high mobility fights. Whatever shots I seemed to land appeared to do OK-ish damage to his health, I am guessing that Corrosive and Puncture is good against him. It doesn't matter, by the time Supra would've revved up, I would've died because I stood still. Even worst, moving was probably more dangerous to me than standing, since my damage output was practically non-existent. All in all, without a sentinel to save my butt, I needed about 8 seconds to be gunned down. 

 

 

-----

 

After fight observation:

 

Stalker the destroyer: The thing that stands out to me is how much damage Stalker does. He needs only a couple of seconds to pierce through the thoughest frame I could bring to the table, ignoring Trin and Rhino's whose respective abilities would be negated anyway (even Snow Globe was useless, since he isn't slowed or can just teleport me outside instead). Although my first reflex was to run and roll for cover, that might've harmed me more than anything, since I could have used these 8 precious seconds to shoot back with Supra. I will need a new encounter with Stalker to try a laser monsoon against him, but today I couldn't conjure a laser monsoon strong or long enough. Can you blame me tho? Would you stand still as you slightly get withered down?

 

-- Conclusion on Stalker's damage: Unless, like me, you happen to have the strongest defensive frame at your disposal and run around fully armored 24/7 (like I did), you cannot survive for more than a couple of seconds, at best. Even with the best mods, you still only have 8 seconds to fight back (more like 9 or 10 if your sentinel helps you). Make use of every second, Tenno. 

 

Stalker the Panzer: I can't really comment on Stalker's survivability, my aiming was terribad on the second face-off, and the first part saw my Brakk do what he was effectively built to do: break a shield. Breaking the shield however didn't win me the fight.

 

Stalker the wiser: Stalker was leveled at 37. 37 is just shy of complete insanity against regular mobs. If I met a single Napalm that was blocking a doorway at level 37, I would start worrying for my safety on any frame except Frost/Trin/Rhino, even with the brand new damage system, which effectively nerfed fire against shields and warframes. Stalker however? He is getting insane damage and damage reduction (I assume) from that. I would like to point out here, that his Dread and Despair should be doing jack-all damage at my shield, by virtue of being Slash/Puncture oriented weapons. I trust I don't need to mention again his aim-bot (d'uh) and his otherworldly weapon swapping speed.

 

Frost the fallen: I, as a player, feel particularly angry at the game right now, and not in a right way. I remember vividly my first encounter with Stalker, as an un-experienced Loki. I even remember the location within the tile where he killed me (somewhere in the Xini defense tile where door-heroes are known to go, you know the spot). I felt animated with a deep grudge against Stalker, and short of vowing revenge dramatically, I was eager to build up my weaponry and face him again.

 

Today? My Frost is at the strongest it has ever been, my weapons were nearly at their most powerful, and the fight felt less like a fight and more like a revive-wasting event. Stalker feels like the cheapest opponent to me, he has insane abilities that makes nearly all my tools useless, his scaling is off the chart, switching weapons means nothing to him and of course he has an aimbot. 600 hours of playing the game, and I feel like an useless Loki player who could barely afford an unranked Vitality as "defense" on his frame. 

 

So there it is folks, my opinion: Stalker feels cheap. I'm no longer looking forward to fighting him, if I ever was before. 

 

Addendum: If you are going to post about how cool you are, please back up your claim. You cannot comprehend how little I care about "this one time I saw Stalker and killed him lol it's easy lrn2play" posts without substance. 

 

Further Addendum: Don't post about jumping on crate. Or if you do, kindly choke on air. If you bothered to look at the video or skim my post, you would've noticed that Stalker can teleport you to him now. 

 

Last Addendum: There will be no TL;DR. 

 

Thank you kindly for your attention. 

 

- Hops down soap box -

Edited by Kinperor
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Looks like stalker is at the level of an elite assassin now. I do agree he is very strong and is still buggy but if he stays tanky and his dmg is toned down a little, I think he would make for a much better team encounter. I feel like he should be near impossible to solo making him much more feared.

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I can very much agree, fights with the stalker are pointless, if anything i've been doing nothing but keeping revives well stocked for when he comes so i can pretty much stand there and be one shotted :/  My last try at the stalker was him spawning right behind me and killing me instantly, no fight, no shooting, not even a chance to jump away; Just spawn, and than the revive screen. Stalker has become nothing more than "it's time to waste a revive". I know DE wishes to make the stalker more challenging, but making him cheat like this doesn't add anything but frustration. The only way i was able to fight the stalker before was a Rage + quick thinking combo, and i got rid of quick thinking A) because i felt I was cheating with it, and B) i wished to help out a friend by trading it away.

 

 

TL;DR : stalker needs a nerf, only rage+quick thinking seems to do anything against him.

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Looks like stalker is at the level of an elite assassin now. I do agree he is very strong and is still buggy but if he stays tanky and his dmg is toned down a little, I think he would make for a much better team encounter. I feel like he should be near impossible to solo making him much more feared.

 

I disagree, he shouldn't be impossible to solo, not even nearly impossible. This would be gratuitously mean to players that cannot enjoy coop due to circumstances beyond their control.

 

He needs a better pattern: right now all he does is disabling you or dealing damage to you. He literally has no choice to do with his weapons, he just juggle with Dread and Despair like he had 4 arms or something. 

 

Right now, my strategies against Stalker can be summed up to "outgun him". That's boring, Stalker can be so much more, he has the potential than being a clown juggling with his weapons because they have no difference for him. 

Edited by Kinperor
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His Ai needs to be reworked and his entry should be changed to be more surprising, not what they made him into. Your mods are to me over tanking on your frame and if you can't survive a few bursts from his weapons it now makes sense why he is one shot wonder on just about everyone else, most players that do survive against his new form use the rage quick thinking combo and personally I don't think one should be forced to use a certain combo or over tank just to survive more then a second against the stalker. Increasing the AI and pathing would make him more of a challenge without the need to be border line broken - face it he is one hair away from being impossible to kill atm.

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They just overdid it with his bag of tricks.

 

They should've just left him with the ability to dispel stuff like Iron Skin.

 

Allowing him to toss you around with pulls and teleports are just insanity when you realize his damage is now enough to one-shot most Warframes.

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Actually he did need a buff.

 

But not like this.

 

Not like this...

 

He needed a buff to deal with team-play, 1 on 1 he was frightening, not... overly so but if you were unprepared he could kill you.

 

Against a team, however, he would quickly be torn apart. 

 

I feel that the buffs were designed to make him scarier against teams. the issue is that his abilities are even more devastating one on one, and his stats scale as though he was going up against a team even if the player is solo. There are a number of videos of teams taking him on, akamikeb's is a good one. 

 

I think he needs another rework, for one his stats should scale on level and number of players in the mission. Secondly his new abilities should be changed for ones which promote him isolating a target. For example:

 

-Stasis barrier: Stalker encloses a small area in a wall of energy, which deals heavy damage (void laser trap levels) to anyone who enters or leaves the area. He then teleports his target into the arena, attempting to isolate him. 

 

This makes him more able to deal with teams, without making him overbearing to solo players. The team can still help, weapons fire into the arena (though it probably deals less damage), abilities can pass through the barrier, loki's switch teleport could pull the targeted player out of the area. The barrier would fall once stalker realizes his target has either left the arena or his target is dead, otherwise the barrier has a long duration.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

What if they buffed stalker so much he is able to buff himself now... what if stalker is Skynet... WHAT HAS DE DONE?!

Edited by Teneroth
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More people neeed to see and read this. Especialy those 'pros' that think that QT_R is a normal thing to do (and everyone that doesnt are noobs apparently). All in all you just confirmed what ive known for a few weeks now (and tryed to deffend on the forums, and still am) and that is that the stalker has gone into the waters of broken.

to those that say that he can be killed in a team, dont kid yourself. The people that can kill him in a team carry with them the best gear they have cause everything else they have is maxed, formated, potatoed, mastered and sold. Meaning they have nothing else to do but run with full op loadout. How many teams do you know ingame that could pull that off? I cant think of many.

Ive seen Stalker kill teams within seconds on more than one occasion and that is enough for me. Sure he needed a buff but THIS is just comedic. 

 

Lastly DE read this post. This is what you made stalker into. If this is what you hoped to achieve than im worried about the game you created.

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I'm fairly certain Scott (Grineeer, whichever he prefers) read the thread. I just hope that he read it enough to have the following take away points (otherwise, take notes Scott): 

 

 

  • Winning against Stalker is not a challenge, it's just plain un-realistic for the average player. 

     

     

  • Stalker is a cheating prick with no difference between his weapons. It doesn't matter to me, the player, what he's shooting, he can just alter in between faster than I can see (literally). 

     

     

  •  As a consequence of the above, Stalker has no depth. I don't know why I even bothered rolling in this fight: It's clear I should've stood still and try gunning him down with Supra. It makes for a boring encounter when the best strategy is to make sure to aim well with no regards for your movement. 

     

     

  • Stalker makes a puppet out of the player. Whatever you do doesn't matter when Stalker moves you around to his will, and then proceeds to cheese you with stupid damage.
  • And lastly, Stalker has no weakness to capitalize on. You can't resort to a strategy that isn't "abuse his AI" or "outgun him". 

 

I think right now the biggest problem (not the only problem, mind you) is his scaling. Facing a level 37 is ridiculous, I don't know what made the game decide to unleash a level 37 Stalker on me, but it's just mean. 

 

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Ran into this guy two nights ago on a T2 exterminate mission in the void. In a group of 3, a mastery level 7 not fully ranked Nova sporting a Soma, a mastery level 4 Rhino whose details I don't recall except for the Galatine, and myself, a mastery rank 4 Mag. I had a melee and primary I brought just to level up and I was only using my Kunai, with 100% multishot, doing ~200 puncture damage. The Rhino was the target of the stalker. Now, the interesting thing is, stalker completely ignored me. I revived the Rhino once and the Nova twice while using shield polarize and spamming Kunai at him. And Nova revived Rhino once also. Once Rhino was down he targeted Nova, but he never came after me. After a few crazy minutes he went down and for the first time out of ~5 (pre U11) fights with him he dropped the pink orb, and I am now the proud owner of a Hate blueprint. I did use almost all of my Kunai in the fight.

 

Now, I claim to know nothing about anything, but it seems like the stalker needs to scale down for solo fights in a huge way. The frame and gear that OP had is amazing, none of us have a forma in anything. Now it was by no means easy, it was fast and stressful and afterwards I needed to take a smoke break and sit out the next mission. We probably just got lucky, maybe the small hallway in the void map had something to do with it, I don't know. Just thought I would share my experience. I am nervous to do solo missions now, that is for sure.

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Further thought on Stalker, with an encounter where http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9-GLTcjgtY'>he came back with a revenge:

 

 

 

 

Forgive me for not breaking down this video part by part this time, as it was quite a long read (and write). 

 

However, I want to point out that this fight was much more interesting than the first one in my OP: Did you notice how I did not die instantly? Do you see how I actually can do stuff in that fight other than "run away" simply because I'm not being torn to shred by an OP Stalker? 

 

This made that fight much more fun than when I got gunned down like a fleeing rabbit. Until, of course, Stalker ran me down like a rabbit because I had a weak un-maxed, un-potato'd Cestra and a freshly polarized Supra. Mag tried as she could, but she couldn't do jack S#&$ other than run

 

Without changing anything, just tweaking down his numbers, he could have been an interesting fight. Just look at him, at level 37 (which he was again), he's pass the point where the damage typing even matters. My Cestra might not be the strongest weapon out there, but it barely dented Stalker's armor, which is Cestra's strong point; furthermore, Stalker completely shat on our shields, even though his weapons should be ineffective against shields (which both me and Mag had in quantity). 

 

------

 

I had a revelation, last night, that gave me a cold sweat: I know why Stalker is so strong, and I understand why. DE wants him to actually represent a threat to players. They want players to seriously fear for their live when the lights flickers.

 

I take issue with this philosophy and how it is applied practically in game:

 

-- Powerless players: By throwing a walking god of destruction in the game of someone that is neither expecting it nor prepared for it, you just frustrate this player. Scott (or any other DE devs who is reading this), are you familiar with Superman? Do you know why he has a thousand ridiculous weakness, from Kryptonite to magic? Because invincible characters are plain boring. If you watched the Superman movie (before Man of Steel) and Lex Luthor had no Kryptonite, the whole thing would be boring as ****. 

 

Likewise, the part where Superman is Kryptonite'd? Boring as ****. It's a hobo being beaten up by three guys on a rock. Wake me up when Lex Luthor screams "WRONG" again. 

 

My point here, is a Curb Stomp Battle is boring, and frustrating if you are on the losing side. 

 

-- Only your equipments matters: I think I brought it up enough, but Stalker's stats are off-balance. At this point, Stalker isn't a fight, it's an equipment assessment. "Do you carry your strongest equipment (yes/no)" =>No; "Die"  =>Yes; "Congraturation, you are winnar".

 

I want to make a distinction here. I don't mean to say Stalker should be beaten by a dude polarizing all his stuff at once (readiness= 0%): My point is, it should be realist for people to face Stalker and win if they have good weapons (readiness= 40-60%), without being a full team using Rifle Amp and Soma and Rhino Roar (readiness= 150%). It's a balance act. 

 

-----

 

I would like to point out, I don't care if I never see or kill Stalker again: I got all my loot from him (maxed and collecting dust), the exp he offers is insignificant to me, the mods and Orokin Cells even more so. I don't care about bragging rights, especially not when the fight is so one-sided that I can't even give advice to my mainly-solo friends on how to face Stalker.

 

Crates? Haha, no. Abilities? God no, Stalker will stun you. Weapons? Only bother if you have 4 stars on it, let yourself die otherwise. Warframe? Bleh, you can't possibly survive Stalker for long enough even if you tried, just mod in the same damn build everyone use. No, really, it doesn't matter that you basically paid the entire wealth of 10 average players together to max two resistances mods and almost-max a last one, Stalker will only need a couple more seconds to kill you.

 

So yeah, my points remain strong:

 

I plea thee DE, lower Stalker's level scaling. Just with a lower level he will get saner. Give him different tools for team fights, like I don't know, decoy, clones, DPS limiter, faster movements, but give a break to the solo players or even the team-players that are nothing short of average. 

Edited by Kinperor
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One thing is being a threat and a entirely another just being a A******. The first time i fought the stalker, i mean the first time ever, THAT was a threat. Sure he didnt kill me nearly as fast and as the time whent on i was able to quite quickly dispatch him, but, but that first time i was scared, haunted and when appeared the first thing that came to mind is 'torch this fuker!'. The battle didnt last long, i died, but i acctualy managed to do something i got his health to a quater.

Now, i see lights flicker all i think is 'god damn it leave me alone ya cheating asswipe'. I let him take my revive without a fight cause with Loki and Volt (my mains) i die in less than two seconds.

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-- Do notice this: In about 2 seconds, Stalker uses his Despair to empty my shield in the first second, then in the second that follows switches weapon twice. Let that sink in. I would like to point out that frame-by-frame viewing shows that he shoots one arrow before even finishing the animation of throwing the Despair he was in the process of throwing.

So he is literally using a speedhack to switch weapons *mid-animation* multiple times? Something that nothing else in the game can do. Wow...I knew he was unfair, but I didn't think he stepped that far into the cheating category that he does there. There is literally no way to compete with him if he can do that.

And one thing I will add:

Besides lowering his level, they need to fix it so that bringing shade along isn't an instant death sentence. Otherwise he dispels cloak, attacks you while you're stunned and repeats that every time shade re-cloaks you (which can actually mean you never have a chance to move at all).

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Stalker is an absolute nightmare...but I have yet to see him during a 4-person raid.

If stalker is this strong in a solo mission, I'd like to experience battling him with a group of well-equipped warriors. Perhaps Stalker's training gave him great power, but being outnumbered may create an epic fight (as opposed to instantly smashing him into the ground ala Damage 1.0).

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So he is literally using a speedhack to switch weapons *mid-animation* multiple times? Something that nothing else in the game can do. Wow...I knew he was unfair, but I didn't think he stepped that far into the cheating category that he does there. There is literally no way to compete with him if he can do that.

And one thing I will add:

Besides lowering his level, they need to fix it so that bringing shade along isn't an instant death sentence. Otherwise he dispels cloak, attacks you while you're stunned and repeats that every time shade re-cloaks you (which can actually mean you never have a chance to move at all).

 

Pretty much. I think he can switch weapons like 2 or even 3 times within a second, and shoot his bows with little to no charge up. 

 

 

Stalker is an absolute nightmare...but I have yet to see him during a 4-person raid.

If stalker is this strong in a solo mission, I'd like to experience battling him with a group of well-equipped warriors. Perhaps Stalker's training gave him great power, but being outnumbered may create an epic fight (as opposed to instantly smashing him into the ground ala Damage 1.0).

 

I haven't seen him either in a full party, and it would either go exceptionally poorly or OK-ish. The main problem is, he seems to be permanently tuned to fight against teams of four, even when facing a solo player.

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The Rhino was the target of the stalker. Now, the interesting thing is, stalker completely ignored me. I revived the Rhino once and the Nova twice while using shield polarize and spamming Kunai at him. And Nova revived Rhino once also.

 

Now, I claim to know nothing about anything, but it seems like the stalker needs to scale down for solo fights in a huge way.

How on earth did any revives happen? Whenever I run into Stalker in a group and he kills someone, he sends you right into the Revive/Forfeit screen, bypassing any chance for teammates to help, which to me is even more annoying than his difficulty level.

 

As to the second bit, I'd love to see him scale to the number of players in the mission.

Edited by Chymos
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How on earth did any revives happen? Whenever I run into Stalker in a group and he kills someone, he sends you right into the Revive/Forfeit screen, bypassing any chance for teammates to help, which to me is even more annoying than his difficulty level.

 

As to the second bit, I'd love to see him scale to the number of players in the mission.

 

You know, I just realized that usually that is the case. Or at least I know when he killed me during the event mission as I was almost to extraction it was instantly to the revive screen. Maybe it was because we were in the void? I just started playing on November first and every time he has appeared my group took him out, except when he came for me in the event mission as I was in a pug, and they just watched.

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Well...In the Darvo alert I was able to solo him with a frost and was also able to then go again with a friend when he got on and we managed to kill him.

He was only level 20 through (instead of 45) so maybe they fixed his level scaling?

I can only hope that they just didn't set him to a low level in that mission alone and that they keep him at a more manageable level.  He still managed to blitz through my Frost's 1050 shields, but he actually went down and didn't one shot me.  So its a start.....I hope

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Well...In the Darvo alert I was able to solo him with a frost and was also able to then go again with a friend when he got on and we managed to kill him.

He was only level 20 through (instead of 45) so maybe they fixed his level scaling?

I can only hope that they just didn't set him to a low level in that mission alone and that they keep him at a more manageable level.  He still managed to blitz through my Frost's 1050 shields, but he actually went down and didn't one shot me.  So its a start.....I hope

 

I saw a level 20 Stalker as well. I think the event was rigged in our favor in this case, but I can't be sure. Point is, my Supra was ready this time and he went down without a fight. If, if, this is DE balancing Stalker, he may be either a bit on the weak side or not using his abilities enough. The Stalker I saw stood completely still, hence why he got trashed. Didn't take any pride of this, Napalms of the same levels survives longer. 

 

It's a step in the right direction I suppose. 

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