The End to Endless + Bonus Rewards

[AMurderForCrow]

10 hours ago, sh0shin said:

If they revisit content it is pretty much just for QoL and nerfing grind...not reworking the entire game. *If*, since they usually do not... Especially old frames :')

You are not wrong, but there is no reason to believe that will always be the case. Let's hold out hope. And Cross our fingers for good measure. :)

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

Why are you so hell-bent on preventing players from playing endless modes? Just let people do their own thing. Don't like it yourself? Just leave after 5-10-15-20 minutes(or other equivalents of the AABC rotations) and restart the mission. What's up with taking away players choice? Let people do what they wanna do. It's not like this influences you in any way, if some random person out there likes to stay 60mins+ on their survival or something. It does not influence YOU in any way. Just let people do it, if they want to.

Edited April 21 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[AMurderForCrow]

On 2024-04-20 at 10:52 PM, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Why are you so hell-bent on preventing players from playing endless modes? Just let people do their own thing. Don't like it yourself? Just leave after 5-10-15-20 minutes(or other equivalents of the AABC rotations) and restart the mission. What's up with taking away players choice? Let people do what they wanna do. It's not like this influences you in any way, if some random person out there likes to stay 60mins+ on their survival or something. It does not influence YOU in any way. Just let people do it, if they want to.

Well, I can say I feel that having endless game modes prevents meaningful content as a whole, by allowing such modes to exist in the game, new content that would once have plot, meaningful story elements, and nuanced team gameplay. Will be degraded into the grinding of endless enemies, and the mindless vacuum of uncapped experience gain for fodder weaponry. Allowing one degradation, leads to the other, and so on and so forth, thus the game has not ever reworked its game modes already.

I would have said this years ago, but I was a part of early release on steam, and I don't use forums, so when attention stopped being paid there, i simply waited patiently like everyone else for the updates as my life went on. as I did not use this medium, I am however vocalizing my opinion now. However late to the party that may seem, but since i see no foreseeable future of the game shutting down, 11 years going strong, I can only hope that by its 15th or 20th that it does not resemble the game i played during the early stages. But again, I have played thousands of hours I cannot say anything to the effect of it being detrimental to gameplay, simply that, a restructuring, of a myriad of systems should be on the forefront as they continue to make small cinematic content that only serves as small additions and the continuance with no larger standing. or show for the care of the actual content that is in the game. From the warframe systems, weapon system, school system, and modification systems to actual combat like melee, ability usage, and the use of items. The story line, the characters, all mostly expendable and in my opinion not as interesting since the second dream. I am uninterested, but that may be years or subject matter or some other factor talking, but everyone else is free to enjoy the warframe that is now. 

As for being hell bent, I am not. But this is my forum post, and from the reasons put in front of me I see no reason to change my course of thought, as it is my opinion for the future of the game. And I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything, if you agree, agree, if you don't, don't. The game will change or not based on the decisions of the developers and their truest supporters, not small opinions like mine. This content is for anyone who sees the future in my opinion, for those who have questions feel free to ask them, but for those who disagree and see no intelligible reason for my statements, then you are welcome to that too. Do not mistake the vocalization of my opinion for any outward emotive force or extreme effort, it isn't its just an observation. You are welcome to enjoy Warframe with those people. But I do not, and i see it as detrimental to the game as a whole, and a continuing issue that is being set aside on purpose for no other reason than that people will continue to consume it regardless of its lack of quality.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

3 hours ago, AMurderForCrow said:

Well, I can say I feel that having endless game modes prevents meaningful content as a whole, by allowing such modes to exist in the game, new content that would once have plot, meaningful story elements, and nuanced team gameplay. Will be degraded into the grinding of endless enemies, and the mindless vacuum of uncapped experience gain for fodder weaponry. Allowing one degradation, leads to the other, and so on and so forth, thus the game has not ever reworked its game modes already.

I would have said this years ago, but I was a part of early release on steam, and I don't use forums, so when attention stopped being paid there, i simply waited patiently like everyone else for the updates as my life went on. as I did not use this medium, I am however vocalizing my opinion now. However late to the party that may seem, but since i see no foreseeable future of the game shutting down, 11 years going strong, I can only hope that by its 15th or 20th that it does not resemble the game i played during the early stages. But again, I have played thousands of hours I cannot say anything to the effect of it being detrimental to gameplay, simply that, a restructuring, of a myriad of systems should be on the forefront as they continue to make small cinematic content that only serves as small additions and the continuance with no larger standing. or show for the care of the actual content that is in the game. From the warframe systems, weapon system, school system, and modification systems to actual combat like melee, ability usage, and the use of items. The story line, the characters, all mostly expendable and in my opinion not as interesting since the second dream. I am uninterested, but that may be years or subject matter or some other factor talking, but everyone else is free to enjoy the warframe that is now. 

As for being hell bent, I am not. But this is my forum post, and from the reasons put in front of me I see no reason to change my course of thought, as it is my opinion for the future of the game. And I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything, if you agree, agree, if you don't, don't. The game will change or not based on the decisions of the developers and their truest supporters, not small opinions like mine. This content is for anyone who sees the future in my opinion, for those who have questions feel free to ask them, but for those who disagree and see no intelligible reason for my statements, then you are welcome to that too. Do not mistake the vocalization of my opinion for any outward emotive force or extreme effort, it isn't its just an observation. You are welcome to enjoy Warframe with those people. But I do not, and i see it as detrimental to the game as a whole, and a continuing issue that is being set aside on purpose for no other reason than that people will continue to consume it regardless of its lack of quality.

Yeah, well... If you're so heavily against it - should have said it years ago indeed. Because at this point, "endless" game modes and missions are legit part of the gameplay loop in Warframe. And at this point, they won't remove it, because it would require some real heavy changes across the board, to the whole game. Too much effort required on DE's end, so they for sure 100% won't do it, especially these days (but I'll leave further criticism of DE out of this here, it's irrelevant).

But even more importantly? The community is already used to endless modes. And a lot of us actually LOVE doing those endless runs, only stopping whenever WE decide that enough is enough. So... Imagine the "recoil" that would happen if your idea would be implemented. And yeah, I would be among the crowd who's against this change, mind you. Like many many MANY others, I'm definitely sure.

[AMurderForCrow]

On 2024-04-24 at 5:10 AM, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Yeah, well... If you're so heavily against it - should have said it years ago indeed. Because at this point, "endless" game modes and missions are legit part of the gameplay loop in Warframe. And at this point, they won't remove it, because it would require some real heavy changes across the board, to the whole game. Too much effort required on DE's end, so they for sure 100% won't do it, especially these days (but I'll leave further criticism of DE out of this here, it's irrelevant).

But even more importantly? The community is already used to endless modes. And a lot of us actually LOVE doing those endless runs, only stopping whenever WE decide that enough is enough. So... Imagine the "recoil" that would happen if your idea would be implemented. And yeah, I would be among the crowd who's against this change, mind you. Like many many MANY others, I'm definitely sure.

You are welcome to that opinion, and whether DE can or can't is not up for debate, they can, will they?, who knows? Should they prepare for Warframe 2? With soulframe in the works? No probably not. Should I still state my opinion? Yes, Do I believe you don't fully grasp the benefit of this change? Yes. Do I believe Warframe Is to far gone? ...

I hope you have a nice day. You and the rest of your playerbase.

[Burkhart]

It's far more likely that DE will just add new or differently flavored variations of game modes instead of reworking or removing old ones. 

That said, as many other people pointed out, too many people actually enjoy endless game modes for DE to remove them. Not everyone plays the game to grind rewards. Sometimes we just want to do the good ol' shooty shoot on waiting targets. Sure, some parts of the game show their age, but that's what happens when you have a game given constant updates over a span of more than 10 years. There's no need to rip up the roots and start over.

[AMurderForCrow]

21 hours ago, Burkhart said:

It's far more likely that DE will just add new or differently flavored variations of game modes instead of reworking or removing old ones. 

That said, as many other people pointed out, too many people actually enjoy endless game modes for DE to remove them. Not everyone plays the game to grind rewards. Sometimes we just want to do the good ol' shooty shoot on waiting targets. Sure, some parts of the game show their age, but that's what happens when you have a game given constant updates over a span of more than 10 years. There's no need to rip up the roots and start over.

I understand what you are trying to say, yet you should still remove weeds before they infect the garden, as well as invasive insects, and sanitize for diseases amongst the crops. There will always be a simulacrum, if you want to shoot something that has no chance. As rewards aren't the only cause for this change. The change to rewards is to make up for the lack of endless missions, for resources to be gained in a reasonable manner, with the changes to extractors players can still gain resources passively as well as continue on their journey through a conscience star system. Anything DE does seems to be defended so regardless of the change, I'm sure any gain or loss of players will be manageable.

[Burkhart]

35 minutes ago, AMurderForCrow said:

I understand what you are trying to say, yet you should still remove weeds before they infect the garden, as well as invasive insects, and sanitize for diseases amongst the crops. There will always be a simulacrum, if you want to shoot something that has no chance. As rewards aren't the only cause for this change. The change to rewards is to make up for the lack of endless missions, for resources to be gained in a reasonable manner, with the changes to extractors players can still gain resources passively as well as continue on their journey through a conscience star system. Anything DE does seems to be defended so regardless of the change, I'm sure any gain or loss of players will be manageable.

One, your garden metaphor doesn't really work. I know I mentioned roots, but after a certain point all metaphors begin to break down, and yours definitely has.

Two, you still haven't stated why endless missions are bad for the game. Over all this time in game I have only heard positive things about endless mission types, and the vast majority of players seem to either love them or have no problem with them. What exactly is it about endless modes (where you can exit at any time, by the way) that drives you to say "No. This is awful. I don't like this and no one should have it."? As I mentioned, for many people it's not about the resource grind. Some people just like to pop into a survival map and see how long they can go. Some people like to absolutely max out their builds and hit the enemy level cap. Some people just like to go in, relax, and get into the zone while playing the game. And no, Simulacrum is not a adequate replacement for what you are proposing. 

Three, DE has long held a policy of "add, don't subtract" when it comes to gameplay. The only major thing that they removed that I can remember that wasn't a limited time thing was the raids, and even to this day they are still trying to find a way to implement them again in a way that isn't awful. Any other example I can think of for things that were removed were either broken or replaced by something better. Taking away mission types, even if it leads to more loot, just goes against DE's design philosophy.

Four, how do endless modes (which already have hard caps in story missions, and you can exit immediately for star chart completion, by the way) negatively affect development and prevent meaningful content? That's a point you made earlier and never explained it, and I wholeheartedly disagree. 

Five, what about the open world areas? Aren't those "endless" by their explorative nature? I know plenty of people that just spend hours doing nothing but fishing. Should those be removed because they are "endless" as well?

My overall point is, some of your loot changes seem like good ideas, but taking things away from players is never going to go over well. Remember, "add, don't subtract."

[AMurderForCrow]

4 hours ago, Burkhart said:

One, your garden metaphor doesn't really work. I know I mentioned roots, but after a certain point all metaphors begin to break down, and yours definitely has.

Two, you still haven't stated why endless missions are bad for the game. Over all this time in game I have only heard positive things about endless mission types, and the vast majority of players seem to either love them or have no problem with them. What exactly is it about endless modes (where you can exit at any time, by the way) that drives you to say "No. This is awful. I don't like this and no one should have it."? As I mentioned, for many people it's not about the resource grind. Some people just like to pop into a survival map and see how long they can go. Some people like to absolutely max out their builds and hit the enemy level cap. Some people just like to go in, relax, and get into the zone while playing the game. And no, Simulacrum is not a adequate replacement for what you are proposing. 

Three, DE has long held a policy of "add, don't subtract" when it comes to gameplay. The only major thing that they removed that I can remember that wasn't a limited time thing was the raids, and even to this day they are still trying to find a way to implement them again in a way that isn't awful. Any other example I can think of for things that were removed were either broken or replaced by something better. Taking away mission types, even if it leads to more loot, just goes against DE's design philosophy.

Four, how do endless modes (which already have hard caps in story missions, and you can exit immediately for star chart completion, by the way) negatively affect development and prevent meaningful content? That's a point you made earlier and never explained it, and I wholeheartedly disagree. 

Five, what about the open world areas? Aren't those "endless" by their explorative nature? I know plenty of people that just spend hours doing nothing but fishing. Should those be removed because they are "endless" as well?

My overall point is, some of your loot changes seem like good ideas, but taking things away from players is never going to go over well. Remember, "add, don't subtract."

I have stated why endless missions are detrimental multiple times, and I suggest you re read my original post. As for my reasoning, that was covered as well. And I would rather subtract then add to Warframe at this given point, which is why I stated it. I understand you might not get the why, but stick around for a few more years and you might find out. I've stated my piece, and like my other posts this one will be swallowed by the sea of other very well thought out ideas that reach the forum. You have a nice day my friend, and Play Warframe.

[Burkhart]

The only answers you ever gave to my question are "well I don't have to explain myself" and "go re-read what I've already wrote." 

If you're not going to answer the question plainly and simply, I'm just going to assume you don't HAVE an answer. 

Also, we can do without the condescending attitude. Have a nice day.

 

[AMurderForCrow]

2 hours ago, Burkhart said:

The only answers you ever gave to my question are "well I don't have to explain myself" and "go re-read what I've already wrote." 

If you're not going to answer the question plainly and simply, I'm just going to assume you don't HAVE an answer. 

Also, we can do without the condescending attitude. Have a nice day.

 

I apologize if you feel that way, but I do believe I have already answered your question, now if you humour me for a moment, and read my original post i believe you will find that I already answered it. Goodbye.