The End to Endless + Bonus Rewards

[AMurderForCrow]

Hello,

Being a long time player of warframe I think we should end endless missions, cap all missions at (2) full rotations. And Double the rewards in the second half. Its a quick fix to a slow and tedious grind. With endless missions capped, perhaps new game modes will come to mind going forward and game mode diversity can be preserved in the future in lieu of an entire change to the game environment. I.E. singular and multiple objective based modes with the risk of failure, much like the kahl missions.

As per obligation I will add a quick rework to an endless mission type. This is just a quick mockup of what I believe could replace an endless, add meaningful reward, and be viable in a story mission like function which i believe all nodes on the star chart should be reincorporated into.

*Interception:
The interception mission like many others will land players out in the open, far away from the objective. Players will then be given a choice by the lotus of optional objectives denoted by a different colored waypoint. Those options are as follows.

1. Assassinate these unit leaders for access to the objectives location.
2. Infilitrate this outpost and hack its terminal to locate the objective.
3. Sabotage these systems. Which will cause disruption to the targets destination.

The interception mission, despite its name, has to do with intercepting tracking signals when normally you would perceive it to be intercepting something in transit. This will be changing it that perceived meaning. The enemy will be escorting something in transit and players will need to intercept these vehicles. There will be multiple, and players will be cautioned to take swift action and intercept as many of them as they can before the end of the mission. Once all vehicles have been exhausted then the mission will be completed awaiting extraction. For additional difficulty an enemy may counter intercept, by way of decoy, and by preventing extraction. The Decoy is setup beforehand, and is unavoidable, it is a common tactic to employ subterfuge and is only denoted by enemy faction.  For example, the corpus use dummy systems, and the grineer use dummy clones. The infested on the other hand, are different, there is no time for infiltration, they are a rabid force of wanton destruction therefore as soon as the begin releasing their "vehicles"/"transports" it will be a nonstop battle to prevent them from reaching their end destination. To this end players will need to split up, and come together, as certain waves will bring challenges such as eximus and other difficult creatures. Preventing extraction or an extraction lockout is simple, and is more of a bonus round, when players reach extraction, a lockout begins and the enemy rains hordes of its strongest enemies at the players, once the boss creature shows up in this scenario which should be about as challenging as a Sister of Parvos, or Kuva Lich, players may successfully extract.
 

1. Assassinating unit leaders stationed on patrol allows access to the objectives current position, when this happens players can destroy a large number of vehicles before they can escape, in a single coordinated strike. If a unit leader is allowed to escape and alert their forces, then the intercept mission will begin.
2. Infiltrating an outpost to hack its terminal is a solid plan for catching you enemy unawares and allows you to end the mission before it begins, but it is also the hardest, as you will have to do this in complete stealth, for spy mission adepts this should be an easy task. But one slip up and it's over, there is no countdown, a single trip of a laser or failed hack attempt begins the intercept. If the hack is successful all vehicles are simultaneously rendered inoperable, and players can extract quickly and quietly, while being rewarded a stealth bonus.
3. Sabotaging the systems is a great way to prevent the enemy from progressing, it guarantees that all of the transports can be intercepted before reaching their destination, a player may choose their choice of intercept, in a manner similar to that of the decrees given out on duviri. A player selects a type of subterfuge. Transport Sabotage, Communication Sabotage, or Relocation Sabotage.

 

• Transport Sabotage directly attacks the vehicles in transit, causing them to be much slower and take more damage.
• Communications Sabotage causes all of the vehicles to make stops on their path, and be less guarded by enemies, with lack of reinforcements.
• Relocation Sabotage causes all of the transports to only go towards a single exit, In this manner players only have to guard one direction and do not have to go in different directions or split up in a rush to capture enemies.

This allows for a mainline mission, with multiple facets, that ends at the players discretion, and expedience. But failing any of these causes the enemy to rush and begin to escape. Intercept missions pay out in resources based on number of vehicles destroyed as well as resources picked up during the mission. So, players will still be seeing an abundance of rewards. That don't require endless hours of farming to obtain.

This mission coupled with reworks to movement and melee will not only be fun, but also challenging.

As for continued persistence of material acquisition, it is my hope that resource bundles will be able to be purchased with credits, as over time carrying around millions of credits that can't be spent on anything is a bit unfortunate, maxing out mods is expensive early on, but once you've obtained what you need credits are useless in comparison to standing, the least we could it be able to purchase bundles of basic materials with them.

*Extractors/Excavation:
This coupled with reworks to Titan Extractors will be beneficial, a rework to Titan Extractors will be as follows, Titan Extractors will be deployed on planets, and will run until the end of their life, Resources will be gained on a constant basis and do not need to be extracted from manually, at the end of their life, they payout with a multiplier of all of the gained resources, as well as pieces and parts for higher level extractors. Higher level extractors offer higher multipliers and can protect resources better. By protecting resources i mean that extractors will be attacked allowing players to receive personal alerts to defend their own extractors, the invading forces are based on planet and offer increased rewards upon mission completion and a quick lumpsum boost to resources gained. Higher quality extractors get more difficult enemies and better bonuses. Liches and Sisters should be allowed to spawn in this way.

*Survival:
Survival is a mission type where players have to obtain life support to sustain their life when it is being depleted.

This change for a more story based Warframe is hand placed on nodes, the new mode will have players weakened, they will be randomly given an effect similar to the dragon keys and they will be limited to only a single weapon from their loadout to use while completing it. Based on the players each one will have an string of objectives to complete that they must complete on their own, or one by one or two by two. The mission will not complete until each string of objectives is completed, requiring the persons dragon key as collateral. The story positioning is that "through the void, something comes, attaching a void born key to the victim to satisfy its need." In this manner, "Survival" is a mission type that can affect any mission upon arrival. Any mission that you must complete can instead be turned into a survival mission much like stalker appearing in your missions or a syndicate raid. 

The string of objectives can lead you through single, objective, sabotages, captures and spy missions. Or simply require you to get access to nodes, in parkour like environment. Depending on the "Dragon Key" forced upon you, you may experience a specifically catered hellish experience that is ultimately challenging. In higher level survivals player respawn will be limited allowing players only a single chance at surviving. Much like archon and arbitrations. Players are rewarded for each objective completed, and upon reaching the end players are rewarded based on number of completed strings, a player may fail certain parts of a string, and still successfully complete the mission, but in higher level content this will not be the case.

*Caches
Caches are special lockers only available during certain mission types. 

This change will see that caches are placed in every mission, with each planet having a certain number of caches to be found, after completing this task, a bonus reward is unlocked unique to the planet. I believe it should be a piece of brand new tenno arsenal that is designed for and by tenno. This reward is gained once while caches will remain available to be reopened everytime a mission is played. A caches contents, will contain a series of rare materials that is obtainable on planet including mods and relics, as well as base resources. It always contains a bundle of resources, and a special item, being either mods or relics. 

Caches can have their location pinpointed, by killing unit leaders, hacking system terminals, specialty item, or capture target. They will be specially marked after picking up their coordinates from killing these enemies. You can also obtain them from lockers, so it is helpful to have a pet that can open them for added chances to find coordinates.

*Capture
Capture missions are missions where players have to capture a single target, then escape.

These missions are not endless, but they are incredibly short and despite having useful rewards later on, are pretty boring to do. The load time to get into and out of the missions takes longer than the mission itself. This change will hopefully add something to capture missions that makes them more fun and unique.

Infiltration, Capture targets exist somewhere on the map, their position must be first located. This happens in 3 ways. Killing unit leaders, hacking integral systems, and causing a significant amount of damage. After the capture target is drawn out of hiding or located, players can go out and dispatch them. After dispatching them, and capturing them, a new target will be revealed. Up to around 5 enemies, each enemy will be subsequently harder than the last, gaining access to higher level weaponry, such as necramechs, ghoul legions, kuva weaponry, and bodyguards, as well as tenet, and even wraith gear. Liches and Sisters can spawn in this way. After this unit is rounded up, they will reveal the location of an integral system that has to be destroyed, in order to escape and prevent them from being re-captured. Along with revealing a new location, each one will have an unidentified item of decent reward.

*Exterminate
Exterminate missions are missions where you have to kill every single enemy on the map, or kill a certain number.

This mission is also not endless, but for ninjas, to be exterminating anything, is aside from the point. The change I am suggesting for this mission, is to make every exterminate an Assassinate, but without the specific boss, the boss will be a powerful warrior, that must be located in their place of dwelling, where they can have any number of defenses, the players will need, to hack, capture, and gather intel from enemies, and enemy squads, and/or their leaders, to locate the final general on the map. These generals will be generated much like kuva liches or sisters, and have unique weaponry, based on the planet, and enemy type. With an Eximus attribute for added versatility. It is important for planets regardless of faction to have unique themes and weaponry. That includes the same factions. Not every grineer heavy on every planet should be using a gorgon. Especially when under different leadership. This adds a reason to add new weaponry and new enemies with unique looks, and add prevalence and importance to each major enemy within their own respective factions. (Vay Hek, Kuva Queens, Kela De Thaym, Tyl Regor, etc.), While still allowing minor enemies to have their own unique traits. (Kuva Liches, Sisters Of Parvos, Enemy Generals.)

Edited April 12 by AMurderForCrow
*Added Concept *****

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

But... A lot of people actually enjoy long endless runs, for the sake of endurance testing of the builds and reaching level-cap. Why would you wanna force cap that?

P.s. And besides... A lot of people actualy find long endurance runs FUN.

Edited April 2 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_
Added a "p.s."

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

No

[AMurderForCrow]

18 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

But... A lot of people actually enjoy long endless runs, for the sake of endurance testing of the builds and reaching level-cap. Why would you wanna force cap that?

P.s. And besides... A lot of people actualy find long endurance runs FUN.

For the sake of increased difficult with smaller and more curated enemy groupings, units, and leadership.

[WoLfThUmP]

On 2024-04-02 at 6:17 PM, CallJamal said:

For the sake of increased difficult with smaller and more curated enemy groupings, units, and leadership.

no

[quxier]

1/2 yes

Sure, stupid 'on rotation C' should be changed.

On other hand Sometimes I like to play longer than 5 minutes.

[AMurderForCrow]

23 hours ago, WoLfThUmP said:

no

Check your operator switch bud, you can no, but its really not necessary on my posts, you can just walk away.

 

 

14 hours ago, quxier said:

1/2 yes

Sure, stupid 'on rotation C' should be changed.

On other hand Sometimes I like to play longer than 5 minutes.

Im sorry do you mind phrasing that differently, I don't really understand what you are trying to say. As for playing longer than 5 minutes, I only said to end, "endless" missions. There are plenty of ways to create unique missions for every star on the star chart that can last 10-15 minutes with meaningful objectives to complete, and acquire resources and materials, so that players may move away from the drop rates, that will still ultimately exist. 

[drakolich21]

I'm fine with longer mission options, I just wish everything got the disruption treatment and rotation C was the default for any round above 4.

[quxier]

11 hours ago, CallJamal said:

On 2024-04-04 at 2:15 PM, quxier said:

1/2 yes

Sure, stupid 'on rotation C' should be changed.

On other hand Sometimes I like to play longer than 5 minutes.

Im sorry do you mind phrasing that differently, I don't really understand what you are trying to say. As for playing longer than 5 minutes, I only said to end, "endless" missions. There are plenty of ways to create unique missions for every star on the star chart that can last 10-15 minutes with meaningful objectives to complete, and acquire resources and materials, so that players may move away from the drop rates, that will still ultimately exist. 

I'm saying that both short (e.g. 5 minutes) or long (40 minutes) can coexist.

Let's say you play 5 minute each day. You have chance to get frames.

Another player that plays 40 minutes per week would have same chances to get that frame.

So you want to play 5 minutes daily, or 1x 40 minutes - it doesn't matter.

 

The best we got is pity shop (Dante, Voruna, Citrine) + drops from rounds. So e.g. you are incentivized to play rotation C (~20 minutes) but you still can earn gear if you play only 1 rotation.

[AMurderForCrow]

5 hours ago, drakolich21 said:

I'm fine with longer mission options, I just wish everything got the disruption treatment and rotation C was the default for any round above 4.

Im certain that is how most people feel, most of the main rewards have always been given out after a certain amount of time spent. Then that multiplied by whether you get it on the first try or you have to keep doing the mission until you do. This is a lazy way to force players to continue playing. While I feel like lazy is harsh, I also feel that leaving the missions the way they are is also harsh.  For players who play the game, a 15-to-20-minute survival in which the player is meaningfully rewarded by protecting multiple objectives in a large area, rather than simply collect the life support and press the button, is a more beneficial way. The Idea that Tenno should have access to all warframes blueprints from their foundry, after unlocking, gaining knowledge, or rescuing their engram from their questline or planets boss, in a way that is sort of like the codex, when you go out into a mission, you simply need to collect materials or information to craft the pieces, and after you do it the first time, you never have to do it again. The Warframe is unlocked, and from there, you get access and can upgrade it, but that is for another post. For now, simply coming up with new missions, that are not endless and that are decently challenging, diverse, with the options for variety such as having an infiltration stage, or whether you choose stealth or outright attack, sabotage to systems before the mission and preemptive strategy, Unique and signature missions for each star on the star chart that each have a part to play in the planets storyline, leading up to the boss. New bossfights, that are full and complete missions. Is the message of this original post.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I'm saying that both short (e.g. 5 minutes) or long (40 minutes) can coexist.

Let's say you play 5 minute each day. You have chance to get frames.

Another player that plays 40 minutes per week would have same chances to get that frame.

So you want to play 5 minutes daily, or 1x 40 minutes - it doesn't matter.

 

The best we got is pity shop (Dante, Voruna, Citrine) + drops from rounds. So e.g. you are incentivized to play rotation C (~20 minutes) but you still can earn gear if you play only 1 rotation.

I feel like regardless of how much you want to play, someone who spends longer doing something will still receive the most benefit from their work, not that you can't get any progress for playing 5 minutes a day, but everyone has their own lives to live and you can invest as much time as you want or pay to get things sooner then other players. But not investing enough time to play a game, should not diminish creating meaningful content for players that do have time for the game. If you don't have time for it, find smaller amusements, plenty of mobile games.



That is about all I have to say for this post, you are all welcome to discuss it further, but my points have been made, and further discussion will only diminish what I can accomplish by talking about it. Thank you, Enjoy Warframe. Have a nice day.

[WoLfThUmP]

On 2024-04-04 at 10:49 PM, CallJamal said:

Check your operator switch bud, you can no, but its really not necessary on my posts, you can just walk away.

How bout it's a free world, check your privilege, pal. You posted publicly, therefore, I'm allowed to share my opinion. Plain and simple leave it as it is, if it not broke! don't fix it!. What should be fixed is the survival requirement, from 5 mins to maybe 15-20. that way people actually get the most out it, or don't have to deal with host migration all the damn time.

[moondog548]

I don't jibe with your underlying premise at all, but your mission suggestions are very intriguing as welcome ADDITIONS to the game.

[AMurderForCrow]

3 hours ago, moondog548 said:

I don't jibe with your underlying premise at all, but your mission suggestions are very intriguing as welcome ADDITIONS to the game.

I am suggesting them, as replacements. To be very clear. And I do not have an underlying premise at all. I am speaking plainly.

[AMurderForCrow]

On 2024-04-08 at 2:56 PM, WoLfThUmP said:

How bout it's a free world, check your privilege, pal. You posted publicly, therefore, I'm allowed to share my opinion. Plain and simple leave it as it is, if it not broke! don't fix it!. What should be fixed is the survival requirement, from 5 mins to maybe 15-20. that way people actually get the most out it, or don't have to deal with host migration all the damn time.

Id rather make changes that are more significant, something that just limits the waves doesn't quell the problem. Im trying to stop any time-based missions that are not a countdown.

[moondog548]

4 hours ago, CallJamal said:

I am suggesting them, as replacements. To be very clear. And I do not have an underlying premise at all. I am speaking plainly.

I understood that perfectly. It's precisely what I was addressing.

EDIT: I think what no one here understands (especially me) is why you think endless missions are a problem in the first place.

But again, your suggestions for other missions sound cool.

 

Edited April 10 by moondog548

[AMurderForCrow]

2 hours ago, moondog548 said:

I understood that perfectly. It's precisely what I was addressing.

EDIT: I think what no one here understands (especially me) is why you think endless missions are a problem in the first place.

But again, your suggestions for other missions sound cool.

 

Well they have been a part of the game since its inception, back then I was just attracted to the atmosphere, but watching the same missions for 10 years, pick up equipment, level it in 6 rounds, throw it away because it can't perform or is not fun enough to warrant using the forma on it. Using weapons for novelty, rather than usefulness. I feel that the game truly needs a complete overhaul, starting off with a story basis for planetary exploration is a good start, granted i feel like open world scenarios with access to instance based missions is the best alternative, starting with the missions on the existing star chart, and shifting towards a story focus would be a streamlined version of the grander idea I had in mind.

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

Endless missions with gradually increasing rewards for each successive rotation a little higher than the current format sounds interesting... But outright capping missions steps on too many people's toes, and flies in the face of gamemodes like arbitrations endurance, SP endurance.

 

There is really no justification to cap gamemodes, and any possible grievance with it can be handled with a different solution.

[AMurderForCrow]

19 hours ago, WisdomOfTheWoods said:

Endless missions with gradually increasing rewards for each successive rotation a little higher than the current format sounds interesting... But outright capping missions steps on too many people's toes, and flies in the face of gamemodes like arbitrations endurance, SP endurance.

 

There is really no justification to cap gamemodes, and any possible grievance with it can be handled with a different solution.

I respect your opinion, But the entire point of this post, is that I disagree your opinion entirely. And I thoroughly advocate, for searching for new ideas for missions. At the very least. Going forward. That is for the continuance of the single entity of "Warframe".

*The only endless game modes in my opinion should be the open world environments, which I believe should have a system of missions that also have a deeper storyline basis, and deeper and more intricate strategies, difficulty, and purpose. That way you can adventure with your friends in a format similar to the way I had explained. That is synonymous with trailers, teasers, and advertisements. That has more purposeful movement, much like duviri, but very, very, unlike duviris missions.

Edited April 12 by AMurderForCrow
*

[sh0shin]

Don't think the scale of this change is something they'd implement lightly, or anytime soon.

I think they actually went the other way with Omnia Fissures, lol

[AMurderForCrow]

1 hour ago, sh0shin said:

Don't think the scale of this change is something they'd implement lightly, or anytime soon.

I think they actually went the other way with Omnia Fissures, lol

To be fair, I hadn't made the post, so, I can't fault them for something I never said. Going to have to roll with it, and place my thoughts here for consideration, and hope for the best. They could start one planet at a time, as my suggestion is mostly undoable without a complete change. To the entire way the game is played, I made the post in respect to the other posts I have made, update the movement system to be a tighter set of acrobatics, update melee to respect speed and collision while creating meaningful impact against enemies, cut the lockout between duviri operator and regular operator and allow the use of melee with regular amps, (or at least allow players to choose). Add an open world Railjack environment with the ability to travel between planets, or at least a subset of planets, with radiant missions players can take on. Etc. Etc.

Edited April 12 by AMurderForCrow
*

[StrawberrySparrow]

I think it would make more sense to suggest new game modes, instead of changing an already existing game mode.

Also, just making it A->B->C would fix endless missions for most people anyway. That, or make the rewards more based on the tier of mission. Doubly so for Steel Path. I don't think it would be a bad idea to have it go C->B->A in Steel Path.

[AMurderForCrow]

11 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

I think it would make more sense to suggest new game modes, instead of changing an already existing game mode.

Also, just making it A->B->C would fix endless missions for most people anyway. That, or make the rewards more based on the tier of mission. Doubly so for Steel Path. I don't think it would be a bad idea to have it go C->B->A in Steel Path.

While suggesting new game modes would be more "feasible" I made this post to express my belief that the game should not stick to simply advancing its graphic systems and that the original designs should be updated aswell. Adding more fluff is not something i want to contribute to. So even if my suggestions do make their way into some small subsection of the game, I want it to be known that I advocated for a full engine update. I am prepared for the eventuality that it does not.

[StrawberrySparrow]

2 minutes ago, AMurderForCrow said:

While suggesting new game modes would be more "feasible" I made this post to express my belief that the game should not stick to simply advancing its graphic systems and that the original designs should be updated aswell. Adding more fluff is not something i want to contribute to. So even if my suggestions do make their way into some small subsection of the game, I want it to be known that I advocated for a full engine update. I am prepared for the eventuality that it does not.

I just don't agree that the existing mission types need to be changed, aside from the loot issue I mentioned. They are all good enough for the most part.

[AMurderForCrow]

31 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

I just don't agree that the existing mission types need to be changed, aside from the loot issue I mentioned. They are all good enough for the most part.

Well I can't say they aren't, with the amount of time i've spent on the game I can make no excuse, which is what I haven't said. But I am still saying my piece on the matter, after the 11th year. You are welcome to disagree. 

[sh0shin]

If they revisit content it is pretty much just for QoL and nerfing grind...not reworking the entire game. *If*, since they usually do not... Especially old frames :')