Limbo Improvements

[Sci-Fi_Freak_PC]

So to start off I am a Limbo Main, I love this character and think as far as warframes go he is one of the best frames when understood properly. However I must admit he needs some better squad synergies and ways of dealing with cc immune enemies. Not overguard enemies in general, I’m talking those that can’t be rifted. Which is why I want to propose some updates that could be given to his kit. Now to start off don’t touch how his core kit plays (those who know know). But add some new things to spice it up. First, as preferably a base kit addition give stasis the ability to SLOWLY erode overguard while eximus units are rifted, say 2-3 percent at base scaling with strength or a fixed 5 percent rate. Second give allies the ability to enter the rift while near limbo or a rifted enemy. Or add a function to the rift where allies can shoot through the rift but at 50% effectiveness (a means of balancing and 50% sounds like a lot until you realize most top tier builds already do millions of damage to health pools of 100k so not a huge downside unless lvl capping). Or give him both of these to make squad play less intrusive. In addition add an effect to rift torrent where the buff remains for a few seconds after exiting so he can buff himself against enemies that can’t be rifted (say the nechramechs).  Now I myself mostly play solo but understand that those who want to play limbo at max potential in a squad realistically can’t due to his current design (and general lack of knowledge surrounding the frame). At least a few of these would drastically improve his usage in a squad. And if you don’t agree with any of these ideas at least consider looking to buff him a bit more to deal with these kinds of cc resistant enemies without sacrificing his theme. 

[Peekoh]

Like many Warframes, I think Limbo is shy of a few Quality of Life changes to bring him into a great spot.  I think you've nailed the areas for improvement.

• Requiring Limbo to "gimp" himself to play around public squads is counter-intuitive.  A small Cataclysm can work in squads but it hinders his potential, whereas other Warframes don't have to consider this.  Players within close proximity to Limbo or Riftbound enemies being dragged in as well is a bit odd.  I think the percentage of damage when not in the Rift Plane makes more sense.
• Prior to Deep Archimedea, Overguard was more of a hurdle for Limbo rather than an unavoidable obstacle.  Now that Deep Archimedea introduced the modifier that gives Overguard to every enemy, I think it's reasonable to allow him to erode at Overguard over time.  The number can be subject to change.
• The biggest issue I have with Limbo is, as you stated, enemies like the Necramechs being completely immune to anything of Limbo's.  All Crowd Control immune enemies should follow the same paradigm of Overguard:  They do not suffer from Banish's Knockdown nor Stasis, but they can still be brought into the Rift Plane to be damaged so you can make use of things like Rift Torrent.

All-in-all, good writeup.

[BoredFinno]

So the discussion Darkumineru and i had was about a single point: cross-rift gun damage.
I was personally always against this solution for few reasons:

• I think it undervalues the whole mechanic of the rift
• I don't think it would be enough to fix the multiplayer problem. Not everyone sure is like this, but people are still very touchy when someone is touching their weapon's damage. I think because of this, people would still leave squads with limbo for the pure fact that he basically automatically reduces their damage by 50%. Some people talked to about this implementation already confirmed they would act in this way.
• This kinda discourages interaction with the rift, as you can basically ignore it
• It kinda feels like a cheap, band-aid fix 

Darkumineru did imply that this change should be done with the dash one as well and did point out some valid problems with dash part itself. His argument is also that this makes people choose to interact with Limbo's mechanics. I disagree with this. If frame is bringing a unique mechanic to the table, players should be encouraged to engage with it. Problem arises when this mechanic becomes too annoying to interact with. Having different mechanics is part of the game and if its done to be not as intrusive, it can be actually fun. It shakes up the game as well. The game also shouldn't always tailor to the player how they want to play; what would be the point of challenges like Deep Archimedea or sorties. 

In light of that, again, i think rift should be made more accessible to other players. It provides a little bit of support and some survivability as well, which are already valuable. The whole discussion started me thinking on even more solutions to make rift more accessible, to not cuck gun focused frames. This is something I came up with:

Surge's radial banish has a chance to spawn a tear in reality, just like limbo's passive does. The chance should be based on the amount of enemies affected by it, as to if you have 2 enemies, its more likely to spawn 1 from those 2 enemies to again, avoid cucking. Ofc, min chance should be capped and not scalable. Allies, and only allies can use this to enter the rift, for a limited time. Might as well gain a some % of torrents buff, to encourage this even more. Would it be simply by touching as its now, or by using the interaction button, thats more down to testing imo. I think this creates a little mini-game of seeking those out, if they are made to spawn within reasonable range(maybe one tear every 10m) which enables the gun frames to interact with rifted enemies and encourages them to do so. Tears would of course have to last for a much more reasonable time(maybe even until surge's banish is again triggered). This was also the original design of the dash tear i imagine, but this one is too annoying for a fast paced game. With this change, i don't think dash for everyone would even be required anymore.

We came to conclusion that we agree to disagree. To be fair, i am not understanding really what Darkumineru's argument was that making rift more available isn't enough, from what i understand, its that people don't want to interact with this mechanic out of laziness or inflexibility to slightly alter their playstyle, but please correct me if i misunderstood, this one is on me. Mostly just want to hear your input in this idea in general and maybe your arguments why "for" this change over something else, like this.

I do agree with most of the things you talked about, but i generally think overguard needs to change for the health of the game in general, even tho that might be a different discussion all together. It is definitely a fix for its current state, but not a needed one if they decide to revisit overguard, which i really hope they do, as a lot of discussion has been had about it lately.

Edited April 11 by BoredFinno