Tonkor is negatively impacted by multishot

[deather123]

I played Warframe from 2013ish to around 2017 so I was still there for most of the Tonkor meta before anything changed with it.

When I came back to Warframe, I heard the Tonkor and blast damage both got nerfed so I wasn't surprised that it didn't feel as good to play with as it did before.

Recently however, I tried playing around with the Tonkor again, hoping I could find a way to help its damage but ran into a weird scenario where my base damage was 10k but I was critting for 4k despite being against a level 40 enemy with 7x crit damage multiplier. I actually realized this was happening when I initially came back to Warframe too.  For reference, my build was blast damage, crit damage/chance, Serration, and Split Chamber.

I played around with my build and eventually removed Split Chamber from my build. My crit damage shot up from 4k to 22-35k.

I'm not really sure why this is happening. I considered maybe this is a visual glitch with the numbers but after continued use, the 4k damage does seem accurately reflected on enemy health bars. I also considered blast damage had been reducing my damage heavily which is true because focusing on a different element did help my damage, however the addition or removal of Split Chamber still had the most significant effect on my build.

I'm very certain this is a bug and that it doesn't have to do with other factors in my build. I tested and played around with the build for 2-3 hours and again, Split Chamber had the single most significant negative impact on my build. I also can't test higher multishot with Galvanized Chamber because of my limited resources.

[Tiltskillet]

It's working fine for me.  Split Chamber definitely isn't reducing the damage output.  I tested it against both an empty slot and Heavy Caliber, and it outperformed both in terms of  TTK, and the empty slot in terms of displayed damage.

Hopefully it's just a UI issue.  The possibility that comes to mind is you're only getting a display of projectile hit damage rather than the much greater damage from the explosions.   You might try switching to Legacy from Enhanced (or vice versa)  in Options>>Interface>>Show Damage Numbers and see if that helps.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 hour ago, deather123 said:

I played Warframe from 2013ish to around 2017 so I was still there for most of the Tonkor meta before anything changed with it.

When I came back to Warframe, I heard the Tonkor and blast damage both got nerfed so I wasn't surprised that it didn't feel as good to play with as it did before.

Recently however, I tried playing around with the Tonkor again, hoping I could find a way to help its damage but ran into a weird scenario where my base damage was 10k but I was critting for 4k despite being against a level 40 enemy with 7x crit damage multiplier. I actually realized this was happening when I initially came back to Warframe too.  For reference, my build was blast damage, crit damage/chance, Serration, and Split Chamber.

I played around with my build and eventually removed Split Chamber from my build. My crit damage shot up from 4k to 22-35k.

I'm not really sure why this is happening. I considered maybe this is a visual glitch with the numbers but after continued use, the 4k damage does seem accurately reflected on enemy health bars. I also considered blast damage had been reducing my damage heavily which is true because focusing on a different element did help my damage, however the addition or removal of Split Chamber still had the most significant effect on my build.

I'm very certain this is a bug and that it doesn't have to do with other factors in my build. I tested and played around with the build for 2-3 hours and again, Split Chamber had the single most significant negative impact on my build. I also can't test higher multishot with Galvanized Chamber because of my limited resources.

Question, split chamber actually visible proccing in your buff bar top right?

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)FrDiabloFr said:

Question, split chamber actually visible proccing in your buff bar top right?

Unlikely, since it doesn't have a buff. :P  (You're thinking of Galvanized Chamber.)

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

Unlikely, since it doesn't have a buff. :P  (You're thinking of Galvanized Chamber.)

Durr ye as soon as posted that it clicked lol, i was like hang on it not galv it has no proc symbol lol

[deucich]

2 часа назад, deather123 сказал:

I played Warframe from 2013ish to around 2017 so I was still there for most of the Tonkor meta before anything changed with it.

When I came back to Warframe, I heard the Tonkor and blast damage both got nerfed so I wasn't surprised that it didn't feel as good to play with as it did before.

Recently however, I tried playing around with the Tonkor again, hoping I could find a way to help its damage but ran into a weird scenario where my base damage was 10k but I was critting for 4k despite being against a level 40 enemy with 7x crit damage multiplier. I actually realized this was happening when I initially came back to Warframe too.  For reference, my build was blast damage, crit damage/chance, Serration, and Split Chamber.

Just in case you might miss it... They added damage falloff to AoE weapons since that time. Now you deal full damage only at the very center of explosion and  it gradually diminishes the further away target got hit, down to a 30% (for tonkor case).

Edited April 26 by deucich

[deather123]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's working fine for me.  Split Chamber definitely isn't reducing the damage output.  I tested it against both an empty slot and Heavy Caliber, and it outperformed both in terms of  TTK, and the empty slot in terms of displayed damage.

Hopefully it's just a UI issue.  The possibility that comes to mind is you're only getting a display of projectile hit damage rather than the much greater damage from the explosions.   You might try switching to Legacy from Enhanced (or vice versa)  in Options>>Interface>>Show Damage Numbers and see if that helps.

Thanks for the suggestion of changing the mode from Enhanced to Legacy, I tried it in a direct comparison however I still find just about the same "non-expected" damage numbers. I think calling Split Chamber the issue was too quick of a call, you're right about how it outperforms over an empty slot but I'm still unsure what the actual cause for the damage loss would be. The damage does reach as low as 400 without crits and sometimes lower than 4k with crits. Thanks for doing some testing too.

[deather123]

29 minutes ago, deucich said:

Just in case you might miss it... They added damage falloff to AoE weapons since that time. Now you deal full damage only at the very center of explosion and  it gradually diminishes the further away target got hit, down to a 30% (for tonkor case).

Yeah, I know about the change I just didn't want to make the post too long winded. After changing some stuff around in my build, I can consistently crit for about 18k to 26k (when it doesn't drop as low as 4k) so even accounting for max falloff, damage should only drop as low as 5.4k yet I find I'll crit for lower than that fairly often. I don't think Split Chamber is the issue anymore but the damage is still randomly dropping way lower than expected even with falloff accounted for.

For better reference about my damage, it's saying it's 9432.3 total radial with Split Chamber (4964.4 without). I've been testing against grineer armored enemies so 18k crit per projectile is just a bit higher than expected. Max fall off of 30% should be about 5.4k against those enemies. I have 7x crit damage multiplier. Expected damage per projectile to neutral enemies rather than resistant should be about 34k and yet I still crit 4k against them too.

Edited April 26 by deather123

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, deather123 said:

Thanks for the suggestion of changing the mode from Enhanced to Legacy, I tried it in a direct comparison however I still find just about the same "non-expected" damage numbers. I think calling Split Chamber the issue was too quick of a call, you're right about how it outperforms over an empty slot but I'm still unsure what the actual cause for the damage loss would be. The damage does reach as low as 400 without crits and sometimes lower than 4k with crits. Thanks for doing some testing too.

Can you give your full build, and an exact yellow crit number against an exact level and type of enemy?

edit: and is this Tonkor or Kuva Tonkadonkador?

Edited April 26 by Tiltskillet

[deather123]

7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Can you give your full build, and an exact yellow crit number against an exact level and type of enemy?

edit: and is this Tonkor or Kuva Tonkadonkador?

Before I continue on describing everything I tried, I think my issue was a few issues all bundled up in one and I don't think this is a bug anymore. I believe it was a combination of:
1)  Not going through and calculating per projectile damage alongside armor calculation before testing
2)  The colors I chose for the explosions blended with the actual explosion animation/environment very well so I've probably been missing without realizing it
3)  A lot of the times I didn't deal as much damage as I thought I would, it was on stairs which could have contributed to my own perception issues
4) My own lack of understanding on how Warframe decides what damage number to show on screen (I'm still a little confused lowkey)
5) Not being careful about how I tested the lack of multishot (I replaced it instead of just removing it which inflated the damage per projectile)

I did try my best to consider everything I could like falloff existing and damage resist from armor but came up completely thoughtless on the smaller details. Thanks for taking the time to consider this anyways, I appreciate it and man I hate how they changed this weapon XD

The full build I had to begin with on regular Tonkor was:

Max Hellfire
Max Split Chamber
Max Cryo Rounds
Max Point Strike
Max Vital Sense
Max Hammer Shot
Rank 8 Serration
Unranked Wildfire

As for the crit number, lvl, and type, I was doing base star map Hydron to wave 5 a lot and the crit number varied a lot to the point where my estimates are probably less effort for about the same data.

[Tiltskillet]

37 minutes ago, deather123 said:

Thanks for taking the time to consider this anyways

Sure.  Is it resolved, do you think?  I could still test if you think it isn't.

[deather123]

27 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Sure.  Is it resolved, do you think?  I could still test if you think it isn't.

Yeah it's probably resolved. I think this was a personal perception issue over anything else so no need to test.