Jade Ability Feedback

[PhiZero]

So far, Jade has rocketed up besides Kullervo and Mag as my top frames in 11 years! (Minus the unintentional jumpscare when you helminth an ability into her kit...)

 

As a preface I've been running her with Brief Respite and Corrosive Projection with 200% str, ~130% duration from Archon Continuity, 235% range, 500+ energy, 1300 shields + Arcane Aegis, and Equilibrium; furthermore, also running 5x Tau Emeralds for +180% Toxin Proc Damage and +3 Corrosive Stacks. (Glory modded with a 50 50 split between Blast and Toxin, at 53% Status Chance to proc Corrosive as well.)

 

1.) Light Judgment is an amazing ability with plentiful interactions! Though without a method to increase its Damage Vulnerability, 50% for use with her exalted starts to fall off quickly at around level 170.

2.) Symphony has 2 amazing Auras, and a slightly mediocre shield regen aura, which only works reliably when Arcane Aeigs is involved.

3.) Ophanim Eyes though...yeah, it's pretty good as it can full strip, revive, and slow all enemies in LoS; but, this was my immediate first choice to helminth off, as its base values are incredibly low and take a minimum of 3-4 seconds to build up. Even a 10-20% buff (not additive) to improve its build up to 2-2.5 seconds could feel good.

4.) Glory on High does feel good, but it is undertuned for high level content, contending With her 3 as a helminth candidate. It does feel really, REALLY, good with a Toxin AoE build, but it struggles to reliably proc DoT effects or reliably crit. In all honesty, it would feel better with a +50~+100 increase to its base damage, maybe even a bump to status chance to assist in proccing DoT effects.

I am considering swapping Corrosive Projection for Combat Discipline + Arcane Avenger to push 98% Critical Chance, which is going to take some time as I need 10 more Avenger Arcanes, though a consistent 2x output should feel better.

Or even a Theorum setup for Toxin Damage to tilt its status weight towards Toxin and Corrosive procs; but, I'm struggling to think of a way to maintain the buff uptime when Kitgun kills are a requirement.

 

Though there is a bug on the Steam Deck, where the explosion particles of Glory won't despawn,  immediately beginning to push temperatures past 76C 10 minutes in. (Heat stress on the hardware and screen is a very real concern, as Warframe damaged my Switch over 3k hours, resulting in a cluster of 200+ dead pixels.)

 

Edit: Her energy economy doesn't feel good either, where even with Equilibrium and a hound, she will run dry at times thanks to vacuums limited range. In theory, Arcane Energize and Nourish will run into the same wall as well, forcing effeciency as a stat to get her kit up and running. If there was any way to give her some form of innate efficiency or power cost reduction, even in her current state would be a perfect trade off.

As is, she consumes an above average amount of energy, in exchange for less than average damage output if Glory is used.

As an Exalted Caster, sharing the same energy capacity as Excalibur does Jade no favors despite her Auras being a 1-time cast.

Edited June 19 by PhiZero

[PhiZero]

Supplementary Feedback

Just managed a solo SP-Grineer Survival for an hour as a baseline Jade.

 

The Good: Averages just over 90 kills per second, Judgement can provide a room wide nuke when optimized, 2 absolutely amazing auras, has very little survivability issues with Brief Respite + 2-Auger mods, and wipes the floor with Acolytes if she can reach 100% Critical Chance.

The Bad: It is nearly impossible to maintain 95%+ uptime with Glory, as her primary fire is just a tad undertuned in comparison to its 25-energy alt-fire. As the mission went on the post 30-minute mark, it was incredibly easy to run dry due to vacuums limited range, and required focus firing Eximus units for Equilibrium to maintain Glory. In total - even at 530 energy with Equilibrium - Jade would hit 0 energy more and more frequently up to the 1-hour mark, where her average energy began to hover around 250.

The Weird: On Steam Deck at least, I've been able to hold approximately 72C at 41fps; BUT, lingering Glory effects begin to tank the FPS around 10-minutes in, and reduces the average FPS to 15 at the 20-minute mark.

 

Overall, Jade has been exceptional to play with her Mass Effect Esque ability combos and detonations; but, once more her Glory primary fire is good, but is vastly inferior to her alt fire mode.

Also facing mounting energy economy concerns, she tends to hover around 400 energy, and progressively lowers further and further to 250 energy on average, as she doesn't have the base energy capacity to store up energy for sustained flight. 

Though Ophydian Eyes...I probably will never use this ability again, as it possesses the same problem as Gloom with 235% range: it drastically slows down all AI, making it difficult to cordon enemies into groups to conserve energy.

Even at base 139% power strength, she feels good enough for up to level-150; but, is starved for stats and energy  requiring snapshotting 250% strength to get Glory to keep up after level-200, becoming inferior to our standard arsenal that in turn restricts her Judgement Detonation.

Edit: Roar and Eclipse can be used as a bandaid to prop up Glory's primary fire, but Roars increased energy cost puts a heavy strain on her energy reserves compared to Ophydian Eyes, and Eclipse provides a slightly worse alternative for a Status based Glory in exchange for lower energy upkeep and 75% DR on command.

Neither of these should feel mandatory to uplift her into SP gameplay, but her Energy Management is a bit unreasonable with 500-600 limit w/o arcanes and shards, with a plethora of helminth options that will stress it further.

Edited June 20 by PhiZero

[Tinderox]

Still Symphony of Mercy, do not correctly snapshots buffs and needs to be revisited. The frame is fun, just need a little tweaking.

[PhiZero]

12 minutes ago, Tinderox said:

Still Symphony of Mercy, do not correctly snapshots buffs and needs to be revisited. The frame is fun, just need a little tweaking.

I have a feeling Symphony of Mercy was nerfed to not snapshot power strength, as in theory you could just rotate back to power strength for infinite scaling.

Need to leave it to Pablo's magic fingers if it can be worked around.

Edited June 20 by PhiZero

[OneOmniverse]

6 minutes ago, PhiZero said:

I have a feeling Symphony of Mercy was nerfed to not snapshot power strength, as in theory you could just rotate back to power strength for infinite scaling.

Need to leave it to Pablo's magic fingers if it can be worked around.

I don’t think it was nerfed I think it’s just bugged they said it’s supposed to snapshot In the stream they had so it needs to be fixed hopefully soon

[OneOmniverse]

15 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

I don’t think it was nerfed I think it’s just bugged they said it’s supposed to snapshot In the stream they had so it needs to be fixed hopefully soon

Either that or they lied, and if so, that's just another negative that's been adding up for them lately. 

[Tinderox]

hace 26 minutos, PhiZero dijo:

I have a feeling Symphony of Mercy was nerfed to not snapshot power strength, as in theory you could just rotate back to power strength for infinite scaling.

Need to leave it to Pablo's magic fingers if it can be worked around.

In theory shuld be easy. As of now Symphony of Mercy, recast herself wasting 0 energy when you rotate from buff to buff. This reset the power strength snapshot. It may bei solved if the ability turn on all the buff the time the ability is cast. and rotating the buffs only deactivates and activates buffs.

[Rozendeath]

I don't know your build, but I've modded Glory for enough Fire Rate, put Archon Vitality, and Viral, Heat, Radiation set up. Adding Arcane Avenger and Velocity, along with companion with bonds for crit and fire rate and the primary fire melts Steel Path with no issue. For the memes, I put 3 Tau-forged Topaz Shards for secondary crit and Furax with its Amalgam mod for even more fire rate, and while the damage is not on the same level as Mesa's Peacemakers, it's still pretty good.

Is it a huge investment? Yes, is it all necessary? Not really. Even without shards and arcanes, just 1- Forma Glory was enough for 1 hour SP survival on Circulus with no issues.

Personally, my main concern is her energy economy, to just always stay in the air. Also, even with Adaptation, Aerodynamics and Aviator I just feel that her shields feel a little bit squishy. 

[PhiZero]

30 minutes ago, Rozendeath said:

Personally, my main concern is her energy economy, to just always stay in the air. Also, even with Adaptation, Aerodynamics and Aviator I just feel that her shields feel a little bit squishy. 

Yeah, her energy economy is definitely the #1 issue for SP Jade.

I've been running Archon Continuity, Blast/Toxin, Avenger, crit mods, and galv shot for the status chance. With +180% Toxin Tick Damage and Reinforcing Bond on a companion, her damage output can still melt with 2-3 primary shots and burn down Eximus targets.

100% her consistent need to spam 1 and alt fire is the biggest issue, despite the 25 energy cost for both...it's just too much for her base energy capacity on top of the energy drain for Glory.

For the first 30 minutes it's fun, but after that it becomes increasingly difficult to sustain her energy reserves. At 50 minutes I had to constantly deactivate Glory from lack of energy, and that was with hunting exclusively eximus for energy.

Edited June 20 by PhiZero

[Tinderox]

 

hace 4 horas, Rozendeath dijo:

Personally, my main concern is her energy economy, to just always stay in the air. Also, even with Adaptation, Aerodynamics and Aviator I just feel that her shields feel a little bit squishy. 

I have been playing her. The energy concern could be alliviate be making her 1 have infinite duration equal as wisp motes. and instead of dealing damage proc and instance of fire status(that deal 1 damage) every X seconds. This should be fun. you can deploy up to 5 so you can cover a great area. Also judgement passive will sinergize really great whit the fire damage status effect.

Right now their is little point on casting his 1st since it consume plenty of energy, do not cover, a lot of area and do not last long enough.

This will also allow to run negative duration/ max efficiency builds on her whitout feeling a lost in utility/dps, and allowing to spam more glory alternative fire.

hace 4 horas, Rozendeath dijo:

I don't know your build, but I've modded Glory for enough Fire Rate, put Archon Vitality, and Viral, Heat, Radiation set up. Adding Arcane Avenger and Velocity, along with companion with bonds for crit and fire rate and the primary fire melts Steel Path with no issue.

Glory is a good 4th, and like all her kit. it is suposse to have low damage beacuse you can snapshot power strength whit her second ability reaching easily 400% to 500% power strength( Do not snapshot pòwer strength if you swap buffs. getting stuck in only one buff).

hace 5 horas, Rozendeath dijo:

Also, even with Adaptation, Aerodynamics and Aviator I just feel that her shields feel a little bit squishy. 

The Damage reduction of Gloty should be capped at 90% and/ or Symphony of Mercy shield buff should work similar as protea's shield recovery balls. The shield regeneration do not stop on damage. I have been able to reach 40% shield regen. Is a lot, and very nice to have, but is regeneration stop one you are hit, making that buff not great (Yeah i really think jade could be fixing doing by touching 2 abilities. the rest of the frame is really nice.)

[Destructor7972]

For me, she's okay but nothing special if I'm being totally honest. I think any new frame following Dante is going to feel "Meh" and Jade feels pre-nerfed on release.

 

I've tried her out the past few days & really struggling to connect with the frame. Her 4th (Glory on High) is just so underwhelming & in-flight movement feels clunky compared to other frames.

 

If you start to spam Alt-Fire with Glory on High active, you end up with some serious energy issues so I found you need to sacrifice at least one slot with an Efficiency Mod (even worse on SP).  If you just use her 4th to move around the map, Energy doesn't seem an issue but then it seems pointless having an Exalted weapon as it's never being used.

 It Doesn't help that her Exalted weapon feels woefully under powered when compared to my usual weapons load-out so for myself, I currently can't justify wasting 3 or 4 forma to be able to get it up to decent numbers & then to only use on an ability which I find awkward to use so have rarely been activating it!

 

Me, I'd have combined her 1st (Lights Eye) with her 3rd (Ophanim Eyes) making this her 2nd ability. Moved Glory on high to her 3rd ability but allow you to use your primary or secondary weapons & Have her 4th as the Exalted weapon with "X" multiplier when Glory on High is active along with the Alt Fire bonus. Oh, & Symphony of Tone as her 1st ability.

 

Realistically, I think she's going to be a heavy investment frame to get the best out of her.

 

Lot's of people out there will Love her - It's just not a frame for me in its current form (think Dante ruined any expectations with new frames!) 🤪

 

Yeah, I need caffeine so probably making zero sense.. Ahaha... Peace out 🤘

 

  

[OneOmniverse]

1 hour ago, Tinderox said:

The Damage reduction of Gloty should be capped at 90% and/ or Symphony of Mercy shield buff should work similar as protea's shield recovery balls. The shield regeneration do not stop on damage. I have been able to reach 40% shield regen. Is a lot, and very nice to have, but is regeneration stop one you are hit, making that buff not great (Yeah i really think jade could be fixing doing by touching 2 abilities. the rest of the frame is really nice.)

Have you been able to change the slow percentage mine doesnt change even when using various mods

[OneOmniverse]

2 minutes ago, Destructor7972 said:

Realistically, I think she's going to be a heavy investment frame to get the best out of her.

It really shouldn't be this way though, not just for her but for any frame. They all need to feel fun and good without being so much of a chore. Chores aren't really known for fun. I hope they make some needed improvements to make her less energy hungry to really help her out with sustain. 

[Shinoyami65]

3 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

It really shouldn't be this way though, not just for her but for any frame. They all need to feel fun and good without being so much of a chore. Chores aren't really known for fun. I hope they make some needed improvements to make her less energy hungry to really help her out with sustain. 

At the same time, people want to feel rewarded for investing time to obtain the tools to build/optimise their frames. If you can just throw whatever mods onto a frame and get their optimal output, that's equally boring. Not every new frame can be like Dante who can grant large amounts of Overguard and deal high damage with minimal investment.

[OneOmniverse]

19 minutes ago, Shinoyami65 said:

At the same time, people want to feel rewarded for investing time to obtain the tools to build/optimise their frames. If you can just throw whatever mods onto a frame and get their optimal output, that's equally boring. Not every new frame can be like Dante who can grant large amounts of Overguard and deal high damage with minimal investment.

I suppose not 

[PhiZero]

7 hours ago, Destructor7972 said:

For me, she's okay but nothing special if I'm being totally honest. I think any new frame following Dante is going to feel "Meh" and Jade feels pre-nerfed on release.

No need for caffeine, everything is loud and clear! I just simply love her kit as it feels like an evolution on the Mass Effect 3 Adept, which is my personal gold standard for RPG shooters.

Her 1 does have a LoS check, and only feels good at 235%+ range as it can blanket an entire room for detonation. The -60% str to achieve this though to offset the low base range...not going to lie, it kind of hurts as it did with release-Xaku.

After sleeping on it, her primary fire relies far too heavily on outsourcing and snapshotting, and is easily outclassed by standard weapons with less investment. As is, it feels like a filler option to its alt fire, only there to be an energy-free option when your energy reserves are running low. (With Corrosive on a companion and 1-Tau Emerald, it is good enough as it can 98% strip Eximus armor in 1-second compared to her 3, allowing her alt-fire to deal near full damage.)

7 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

Have you been able to change the slow percentage mine doesnt change even when using various mods

You're correct, the scaling slow percentage is indeed capped and takes a full 6-seconds to max out. Even though the armor buff can scale to around 3-seconds, its base values and restrictions are VERY conservative for a directional passive ability at 50 energy.

If DE won't alter the base stats, reducing its cost to 25 could alleviate energy strains. If it was cheaper despite my severe annoyance with slow effects, I would at least hesitate on replacing it with a helminth option.

7 hours ago, Shinoyami65 said:

At the same time, people want to feel rewarded for investing time to obtain the tools to build/optimise their frames. If you can just throw whatever mods onto a frame and get their optimal output, that's equally boring. Not every new frame can be like Dante who can grant large amounts of Overguard and deal high damage with minimal investment.

With 2 Aura Slots, Jade "was" a low investment frame ans clocked in at about 4-5 forma.

A full day in the rabbit hole, I was 12-forma deep if we don't consider the Aura Forma build requirements.

She is honestly more akin to Equinox power wise, as her ability interactions are unnecessarily complicated resulting in a subpar frame at first glance, but a power house with Arcane investment.

[OneOmniverse]

1 hour ago, PhiZero said:

You're correct, the scaling slow percentage is indeed capped and takes a full 6-seconds to max out. Even though the armor buff can scale to around 3-seconds, its base values and restrictions are VERY conservative for a directional passive ability at 50 energy.

Mmm, I understand why they gimped her since they didn't want a repeat of Dante, but they gimped her too damn much. Energy hog, short base durations on her abilities, and overall weak damage and healing. They need to scale back the gimpness cause she ain’t it as of now 

[Waeleto]

9 hours ago, Destructor7972 said:

I think any new frame following Dante is going to feel "Meh

It's true that dante is very strong but jade is just bad, when comparing her to supports like wisp or citrine she does very little of what they do with twice the effort, she brings nothing special to the table that other support warframes (not counting dante) bring, Her 1 was insanely enrfed between the devstream and release they're not even trying to hide it 

[OneOmniverse]

Might as well have plucked off all her 12 wings too 'cause she's no angel; she ain't supporting anyone with how they gimped her. 

[PhiZero]

25 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

It's true that dante is very strong but jade is just bad, when comparing her to supports like wisp or citrine she does very little of what they do with twice the effort, she brings nothing special to the table that other support warframes (not counting dante) bring, Her 1 was insanely enrfed between the devstream and release they're not even trying to hide it 

Nothing is going to hold a light to out Gandalf.

That being said, as a support she is indeed lacking; but, I believe she is also the only support frame with an affinity-ramge-wide unconditional damage buff. (I believe it's additive damage similar to Vex Armor)

She is 100% outclassed by Wisp and Citrine in the support department, as they're designed to play more akin to Weapon Platform supports.

Jade can be played the same way as well, but with her Glory Exalted she should theoretically slot into a Caster Support with heavy investment, as her room clear is miles superior to both Citrine And Wisp with heavy-handed investment...which is gimped by bad energy economy, somewhat punishing base duration on her 1, and a combination of low primary fire damage and fire rate on her Glory.

As is, on SP it is a bit uncomfortable to play her as an Exalted Caster unfortunately, as her stats force her I to the oversaturated Weapons Platform role.

[Waeleto]

1 minute ago, PhiZero said:

That being said, as a support she is indeed lacking; but, I believe she is also the only support frame with an affinity-ramge-wide unconditional damage buff. (I believe it's additive damage similar to Vex Armor)

you said it yourself, it's additive, wisp (who builds insane amounts of strength) has access to roar subsume and precision intensify (because her 4 is bad she has full freedom to subsume over it) i don't see why warframes are getting additive dmg buffs in 2024 when we all know how it turned out for chroma

3 minutes ago, PhiZero said:

She is 100% outclassed by Wisp and Citrine in the support department, as they're designed to play more akin to Weapon Platform supports.

The fact that she is outclassed by 2 older supports is just sad, i'm not saying she should powercreep them but should AT LEAST be on the same level, As for the weapon platform part i disagree, wisp's 3 does insane dmg (even after being nerfed) spamming here will literally deal more dmg than anything jade does and citrine's crystals melts even at higher levels, they're both very easy to do what jade needs a lot of effort to do worse

I tried so many things on jade with multiple different combinations of 5 tau shards and a ton of forma on both her and her exalted, she just seems not worth it tbh

[OneOmniverse]

Sad sad saaaaad I TELL U!

[PhiZero]

44 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

The fact that she is outclassed by 2 older supports is just sad, i'm not saying she should powercreep them but should AT LEAST be on the same level, As for the weapon platform part i disagree, wisp's 3 does insane dmg (even after being nerfed) spamming here will literally deal more dmg than anything jade does and citrine's crystals melts even at higher levels, they're both very easy to do what jade needs a lot of effort to do worse.

My bad, I didn't elaborate what I meant by Weapons Platform.

 

I was referring to Citrine's 4 and Wisp's 3 having mandatory weapon synergy to qualify as DPS frames. In my book, this puts it in the Weapon Platform category, as it applies damage related debuffs that are most easily used with our weapon arsenal. (Okay weapons become great, great weapons become absurd.)

Since their kit lacks direct ability damage, it's completely understandable that their debuffs are SS-tier through the use of synergistic weapons.

Meanwhile, Jade can be played as an inferior Weapons Platform, or play to her strengths as a Caster with Judgement detonations through Glory.

Edit: I've been running the numbers, it seems like Wisp cannot compete as a Caster with Sol Gate either. As that setup with +75% Ability Damage on Corrosive isn't going to be comfortable to run at 250%+ str to out pace Jade's Judgement...kinda feels bad for Wisp in a way, she loses so much mobility and functionality as a Caster.

 

As for her additive damage buff, it does feel good when it can scale and replace base damage mods; but, it feels like a bandaid to justify Glory losing it's Arcane Adapter slot with year-3 secondary stats. Suffering equally from 8-mod-slot-syndrome, which was felt when Warframes were reduced from 10 to 8 mod slots prior to Exlilus slots...but if her Glory gets access to an Exilus Slot and / or Arcane Adapter, it will open the door for all Exalted and Psuedo Exalted weapons which will be absolute chaos.

It doesn't help that it doesn't mention it's primary fire is missing its Radial Damage stat in the arsenal, leading to many headaches trying to build around the assumption it was a semi auto single target weapon.

With its current iteration, her 2 functions as a superior Vex Armor buff with a 50-75m radius, with the only other frame capable of such a feat being a Mirage augmented with Total Eclipse.

21 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

Sad sad saaaaad I TELL U!

It's a crying shame, the sub-par quality of life hinders her just enough to not feel comfortable to play. ;-;

Edited June 21 by PhiZero

[Shinoyami65]

2 hours ago, PhiZero said:

With 2 Aura Slots, Jade "was" a low investment frame ans clocked in at about 4-5 forma.

A full day in the rabbit hole, I was 12-forma deep if we don't consider the Aura Forma build requirements.

She is honestly more akin to Equinox power wise, as her ability interactions are unnecessarily complicated resulting in a subpar frame at first glance, but a power house with Arcane investment.

They somewhat negated the benefit of the 2 Aura Slots by only giving her 1 polarity on her other mod slots, instead of 2 like every other non-Prime frame. So while she starts off with a bigger overall capacity from the 2nd aura slot, by design you need to invest more Forma into her.

[PhiZero]

2 minutes ago, Shinoyami65 said:

They somewhat negated the benefit of the 2 Aura Slots by only giving her 1 polarity on her other mod slots, instead of 2 like every other non-Prime frame. So while she starts off with a bigger overall capacity from the 2nd aura slot, by design you need to invest more Forma into her.

Agreed, but at least she came with 1 innate universal slot.

...when Protea was retroactively given one as well as her Prime. Feels like she was reined too far in pre-release.