I don't really like Jade

[_4shes]

1 hour ago, AzureTerra said:

Cool beans, 56 other frames that might work for you (plus Helmith options to tweak with)

The circuit has for me been a saving grace after coming back from a long break and having a way to try all the new (and one old) frames out before considering if they are worth the effort of getting or not. 

The sky is also blue (plus clouds that come with it)

And yeah I've played this game for 4 years now so I'm well aware of what exists.

[OneOmniverse]

1 hour ago, Waeleto said:

It's additive like chroma, not multiplicative like roar/eclipse, basically it's a serration type buff so it's literally useless 

It all makes sense now why it feels like she isn't helping at all. SMH, pitiful. 

[Spyke2009]

13 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

It all makes sense now why it feels like she isn't helping at all. SMH, pitiful. 

It does help and saves you a mod slot on her exalted for the annoying but minimal effort of cycling but it's all so clunky and undertuned, it's also a teamwide buff so she excells in teams as expected, it's basically the most immediately effective buff she has in terms of how she "feels" but additive wep dmg sucks, agreed. Really her powerstrength buff is her actual best buff. But again, you'll often hit diminishing returns. Really it's for snapshotting her 3 and 4. All her modding options, are to shore up her defeceits. Her shield regen buff is garbage. Even before it was gutted before release, by 10% if I'm not mistaken.

eyes are... there... the absolutely tiny fire status proc is... the most BAFFLING aspect of the whole thing. Like tossing a grain on a heap to add up weights. 

Her 1 is the absolute worst. Yet more slow animation skills with "a short skill lock" in a fast paced game where people shard for casting speed heavily and commonly? low base duration and range, a gimmick aspect that makes her alt fire proc on OTHER jades that seems more like a bug not a feature. Her heal which if it doesn't heal any actual hp, won't proc archon intensify which she would benefit from greatly. Doesn't proc heat status just does heat dmg. low chance of proccing judgement on her exalted primary fire meaning attack speed is key. 

I like jade's skillset in THEORY and it might be nice with some tweaks and MASSIVE QOL pass. In practice it's just bad however. Best to build her with strong investment, into Airborne DR and towards secondary firerate and dmg and play her as a "death from on high" build. Best of luck spamming all those arbitrations though for airborne.

She's not a support, she's just a floating angelic death lazer spammer. DANTE in spite of being considered a nuker, is a better support. Granted it's more holistic in that people can push themselves damage wise while ignoring status and damage resulting in better output. But he IS better. even his wordwarden buff can afford teams a long lasting buff that can add uncommon status procs and such. It's damage aspect is borked. But...

[OneOmniverse]

59 minutes ago, Spyke2009 said:

It does help and saves you a mod slot on her exalted for the annoying but minimal effort of cycling but it's all so clunky and undertuned, it's also a teamwide buff so she excells in teams as expected, it's basically the most immediately effective buff she has in terms of how she "feels" but additive wep dmg sucks, agreed. Really her powerstrength buff is her actual best buff. But again, you'll often hit diminishing returns. Really it's for snapshotting her 3 and 4. All her modding options, are to shore up her defeceits. Her shield regen buff is garbage. Even before it was gutted before release, by 10% if I'm not mistaken.

eyes are... there... the absolutely tiny fire status proc is... the most BAFFLING aspect of the whole thing. Like tossing a grain on a heap to add up weights. 

Her 1 is the absolute worst. Yet more slow animation skills with "a short skill lock" in a fast paced game where people shard for casting speed heavily and commonly? low base duration and range, a gimmick aspect that makes her alt fire proc on OTHER jades that seems more like a bug not a feature. Her heal which if it doesn't heal any actual hp, won't proc archon intensify which she would benefit from greatly. Doesn't proc heat status just does heat dmg. low chance of proccing judgement on her exalted primary fire meaning attack speed is key. 

I like jade's skillset in THEORY and it might be nice with some tweaks and MASSIVE QOL pass. In practice it's just bad however. Best to build her with strong investment, into Airborne DR and towards secondary firerate and dmg and play her as a "death from on high" build. Best of luck spamming all those arbitrations though for airborne.

She's not a support, she's just a floating angelic death lazer spammer. DANTE in spite of being considered a nuker, is a better support. Granted it's more holistic in that people can push themselves damage wise while ignoring status and damage resulting in better output. But he IS better. even his wordwarden buff can afford teams a long lasting buff that can add uncommon status procs and such. It's damage aspect is borked. But...

She just feels so gutted from what we saw in the dev stream. It's a chore to make her even somewhat decent, and yeah, she doesn't feel like a support. Weapon damage being additive doesn't help, weak shield regen, and her first is so short at base. I'm not even sure if the snapshot thing even works well either. Dante is a much better support currently; that's definitely the truth. Add Wisp to that too. If either of them is in your squad, Jade is kind of useless. Honestly, she just stands there. 

[Waeleto]

12 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

She just feels so gutted from what we saw in the dev stream. It's a chore to make her even somewhat decent, and yeah, she doesn't feel like a support. Weapon damage being additive doesn't help, weak shield regen, and her first is so short at base. I'm not even sure if the snapshot thing even works well either. Dante is a much better support currently; that's definitely the truth. Add Wisp to that too. If either of them is in your squad, Jade is kind of useless. Honestly, she just stands there. 

I think the biggest issue is that she's 100% weaker than citrine and wisp, Dante is not REALLY a support so i won't compare her to him but she'd have been on the same level as wisp and citrine tbh

Edited June 21 by Waeleto

[OneOmniverse]

18 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

I think the biggest issue is that she's 100% weaker than citrine and wisp, Dante is not REALLY a support so i won't compare her to him but she'd have been on the same level as wisp and citrine tbh

She should have been its starting to not even be fun using her cause what does she bring to the table. Short ability durations, a buff that only benefits one aspect of the ability, the power strength cause the weapon damage is just a mod turned into an ability, and the shield regen is not too good either, and I've seen people say her 4th is much better, her first is so minuscule it feels like nothing and on top you have to spam it cause it's so short. Are there even builds you can use to make her somewhat decent and not feel just meh compared to the other supports or is she just gonna be one of those frames that you use for mastery fodder and throw her away. 

[Spyke2009]

26 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

She just feels so gutted from what we saw in the dev stream. It's a chore to make her even somewhat decent, and yeah, she doesn't feel like a support. Weapon damage being additive doesn't help, weak shield regen, and her first is so short at base. I'm not even sure if the snapshot thing even works well either. Dante is a much better support currently; that's definitely the truth. Add Wisp to that too. If either of them is in your squad, Jade is kind of useless. Honestly, she just stands there. 

I wouldn't say gutted, just overtuned and scaled back to avoid obvious afk issues such as unlimited duration 1. I've just become aware of the snapshotting issue you're referencing possibly. When you swap her 2nd skill aura's they update. So external buffs, have to be done on a time limit and with precision and effort. Not against it, it's just more needless complexities and safeguards that lower her skill ceiling. Which I'm NEVER a fan of. Clearly due to her kit and some obscure Mods and Aura mods. Her shield aura was possibly pre-emptively nerfed to avoid being immortal on high end sp.  

So much of her kit seems misguided and fun in theory, but in practice is clunky as all hell. That 1st skill animation could be cut by 50% and the weird lock out on other skills be removed and she'd play a lot better even. Slow frame skills which prevent other actions, are the worst. 

 

19 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

I think the biggest issue is that she's 100% weaker than citrine and wisp, Dante is not REALLY a support so i won't compare her to him but she'd have been on the same level as wisp and citrine tbh

Wisp is a very powerful hybrid, that leans into a weapons platform enabling playstyle while buffing the entire team with great stats and survivability/mobility, with great inherent synergy in her buffs and skills. Citrine is more active playstyle with casting and great internal synergy. Jade... is horribly clunky as a support, better built as a flying lazer machine that like many niche frames, requires a LOT more enemies on screen and investment in terms of enabling a fast TTK to shine. It's nice to grant players that sweet power strength buff. But on most players already established. They'll just hit diminishing returns on power strength. 

[OneOmniverse]

1 minute ago, Spyke2009 said:

I wouldn't say gutted, just overtuned and scaled back to avoid obvious afk issues such as unlimited duration 1. I've just become aware of the snapshotting issue you're referencing possibly. When you swap her 2nd skill aura's they update. So external buffs, have to be done on a time limit and with precision and effort. Not against it, it's just more needless complexities and safeguards that lower her skill ceiling. Which I'm NEVER a fan of. Clearly due to her kit and some obscure Mods and Aura mods. Her shield aura was possibly pre-emptively nerfed to avoid being immortal on high end sp.  

So much of her kit seems misguided and fun in theory, but in practice is clunky as all hell. That 1st skill animation could be cut by 50% and the weird lock out on other skills be removed and she'd play a lot better even. Slow frame skills which prevent other actions, are the worst. 

 

Wisp is a very powerful hybrid, that leans into a weapons platform enabling playstyle while buffing the entire team with great stats and survivability/mobility, with great inherent synergy in her buffs and skills. Citrine is more active playstyle with casting and great internal synergy. Jade... is horribly clunky as a support, better built as a flying lazer machine that like many niche frames, requires a LOT more enemies on screen and investment in terms of enabling a fast TTK to shine. It's nice to grant players that sweet power strength buff. But on most players already established. They'll just hit diminishing returns on power strength. 

Yup :/ sigh

[OneOmniverse]

10 minutes ago, Spyke2009 said:

I wouldn't say gutted, just overtuned and scaled back to avoid obvious afk issues such as unlimited duration 1. I've just become aware of the snapshotting issue you're referencing possibly. When you swap her 2nd skill aura's they update. So external buffs, have to be done on a time limit and with precision and effort. Not against it, it's just more needless complexities and safeguards that lower her skill ceiling. Which I'm NEVER a fan of. Clearly due to her kit and some obscure Mods and Aura mods. Her shield aura was possibly pre-emptively nerfed to avoid being immortal on high end sp.  

So much of her kit seems misguided and fun in theory, but in practice is clunky as all hell. That 1st skill animation could be cut by 50% and the weird lock out on other skills be removed and she'd play a lot better even. Slow frame skills which prevent other actions, are the worst. 

Welp, they scaled back into just making her mastery fodder, I suppose. She doesn't feel good to play after some time playing and getting used to her. Her abilities just aren't feeling impactful at all. I don't know if building her a certain way would help, but I mean you shouldn't have to do that to make up for the lackluster abilities and efficiency. And the snapshot not working as it should just adds to the inefficiency.

Edited June 21 by OneOmniverse

[Shinoyami65]

18 minutes ago, Spyke2009 said:

 Her shield aura was possibly pre-emptively nerfed to avoid being immortal on high end sp.  

The shield aura was never going to grant immortality because the shield restore occurs over time instead of instantly and recharge delay only affects the time it takes for shields to start recharging after taking a hit, so it can't actually be used for the kind of shield-gating shenanigans you can do with Grenade Fan's shield satellites.

[Spyke2009]

6 hours ago, Shinoyami65 said:

The shield aura was never going to grant immortality because the shield restore occurs over time instead of instantly and recharge delay only affects the time it takes for shields to start recharging after taking a hit, so it can't actually be used for the kind of shield-gating shenanigans you can do with Grenade Fan's shield satellites.

Yes good catch, thank you. I was thinking in terms of "being immortal" more along the lines of having insane EHP due to airborne and aerodynamic, boreals set. While in perma ult form and in the air. As one popular build goes. Rarely are you left with Zero shields if you're simply moving around. As opposed to shield gating and such.