Jade Ability Overview and Suggested Improvements

[BionicFreak]

She's more than good, she's GREAT. But there's always room for improvement!

Light's Judgement: Jade's 1st ain't too bad as-is, but if I could offer any improvement, it would be to increase the Base Duration. The base duration of 10 seconds is much too low.

Spoiler

During the last devstream, a developer incorrectly claimed Light's Judgement would last infinitely, even claiming it would be similar to Wisp's motes (instead, it actually works exactly like Zenurik's Wellspring, which is not infinite). This was obviously a slip of the tongue, so I wouldn't hold that over anyone.

Aside from increasing the Base Duration, there are no other changes needed. The base ability gets the job done just fine. 

However, I would like to see an Augment Mod for Light's Judgment that is infinitely-lasting, but can only have 1-3 existing at a time, and perhaps it would include a slight increase to it's base radius. And since it would be infinitely-lasting, it would lose it's DoT Flames and be replaced with a Weapon Buff that gives Fire Damage to allies in it's radius. If only 1 Light's Judgment can be cast at a time, I would suggest adding Judgment Procs to the aforementioned Weapon Buff, allowing oneself and allies to proc enemies with Judgments (with a 100% chance of proc'ing on-hit). Keep in mind, both the Healing and Weapon Buff would persist for a duration (Base Duration of about 30 seconds or so) upon leaving Light's Judgment's radius, exactly like Wisp's motes.

In addition, it would be nice if both the Base Ability and Augmented version could heal Defense Objectives. High-level Steel Path enemies love to 1-hit Defense Objectives 😭. I know this change might seem OP, especially since Light's Judgment heals in percentages, but I don't see why we shouldn't be able to make Defense Objectives more survivable. Playing Steel Path Circuit for an hour and failing immediately because one enemy 1-hit the Defense Objective... really brings out a certain flavor of disappointment. If I remember correctly, Trinity used to be able to heal Defense Objectives years ago but got nerfed somewhere along the way. This change should be across the board for all Warframes. #DefenseObjectivesMatterToo

⬇️ Click "Reveal Hidden Contents" below to see a potential ability overhaul ⬇️

Spoiler

I'm putting this portion in it's own hidden box because it's a bit more of an extreme change, and purely a mere suggestion. This would not be an Augment, but an overhauled combination of the vanilla Light's Judgment and it's Augmented variant, replacing the original ability altogether:

Light & Judgment: Jade's Revamped 1st would have two sub-abilities, tap-to-cast and hold-to-cast.

1. Light (hold-to-cast): This sub-ability would do exactly what I described in the Augment section. Casting Light would create a permanent AoE that Heals allies and gives a Weapon Buff that offers Fire Damage and Judgment procs (on-hit). You may only cast 1 Light at a time (and it's Base Radius may or may not be increased slightly).
2. Judgment (tap-to-cast): This sub-ability would be the same as the original Light's Judgment, but it loses it's support function, dealing only AoE Fire Damage while continuing to mark enemies with Judgment. Jade would be able to cast 5 Judgments at a time, and it's Base Duration would be increased to 20 seconds.

Symphony of Mercy: Jade's 2nd is very neat, but it does have a bug/flaw that needs to be fixed; it's duration increase per Judgment-surrounded kill is not affected by Ability Duration, and it absolutely should be. Aside from that, it's third sub-ability, Spirit of Resilience, could use a buff or alteration. Currently, there is no incentive to use Spirit of Resilience. I'd suggest changing Spirit of Resilience's buff into Damage Resistance + Status Immunity or Damage Mitigation (it's about time enemy bosses got a taste of their own medicine). As an alternative, Spirit of Resilience could be changed to Spirit of Recuperation, changing it's buff to increase the amount of Health and Energy gained from Health Orbs and Energy Orbs by a base of 2x (modifiable by Ability Strength), or simply take from Nourish's feature of multiplying ALL sources of Energy gain (If Health got the same treatment, then Jade's 1st would probably be too OP). Changes needed.

Ophanim Eyes: Jade's 3rd, the elephanim in the room (sorry, I had to). Ophanim Eyes suffers from so many design flaws that it should be renamed "Ophanim Eyesore".
The Helminth nerf is the first thing I want to talk about; I think DE rudely takes us for granted when they nerf any ability that we sacrificed an entire Warframe to obtain, but in the case of Ophanim Eyes, they took away what I consider to be the only reason I'd put it on another Warframe, it's ability to revive fallen allies just by looking at them. Reviving fallen allies by looking at them is not some kind of overpowered omega save-the-day mechanic, it is but an alternative to swapping to our operator to revive our teammates. Similar to most cases, this Helminth debuff is not only completely unnecessary, it's plainly senseless and rude.

Now, to put the Helminth mistake aside, we have the base stats:

• Base Range is at 20m, this makes it only capable of reaching 56m at max Ability Range, which would be fine if this was a radial ability, but it is not. I'd suggest changing the base to a more reasonable distance (50m), especially since the current range is next to useless in open-world missions and larger tilesets. 
• Base Duration is adequate.
• Base Damage of 50 is clearly just some seasoning for the enemies, so I'm not particularly invested in changing/improving it.
• Base Defense Reduction being at 10%/s is pathetic and nowhere near the level of many other abilities that share the same function. With 200% Ability Strength, you'd have to look at an enemy for 5 seconds just to wipe it's armor. 5 seconds of sitting and staring at an enemy is just goofy. Most enemies are killed instantly, and the only ones that take longer to kill are the ones that are immune to 99% of Warframe abilities (Acolytes, Archons, Misc. Bosses, etc.). Again, this would not be an issue if Ophanim Eyes was a radial ability instead of a cone. I'd suggest increasing the base armor strip to 30-35% to make it useful.
• Base (and Unmodifiable) Slow being at 15% per second (to a cap of 90%) is even more hilarious than the previous stat! Who is going to stare at an enemy for 6.6 seconds without killing them? The only scenario where you'd be trying to kill an enemy for more than 2-3 seconds is once again involving an enemy that would most likely be immune to 99% of Warframe abilities. What enemy type is this even for? I suggest removing the lock on this stat, to allow modification via Ability Strength, and then upping the Base Slow to 50%/s. That or just remove this stat altogether, because it is even more useless than the 50 Fire Damage stat.
• Base Revive Speed (Undocumented and Unmodifiable) is way too slow and is removed entirely in the Helminth. I suggest revealing the stat, for starters, and then allowing it to be modified via Ability Strength. I once more vehemently suggest that the Helminth mistake be undone.
• Base Angle being at 70 degrees (also Unmodifiable) would only vaguely be acceptable (if increased to at least 90 degrees) if the above stats were all appropriate, which they are not. I suggest removing the lock, allowing it to be modified via Ability Range, and then reducing the Base Angle to 40-45 degrees.
• And lastly, we have the only upside to this ability: it gives us the power to very clearly see which one of Jade's abilities are getting swapped out for a Helminth Ability 😂

Complete stat overhaul needed.

Glory on High: Jades Exalted 4th, also known as The Fun Factor. I must admit, I'm a little biased on this ability. As someone who got access in 2012 and did not like the game much at all, only to return in 2016 with the release of Titania and find my first favorite Warframe, then 2 more years later finding my second favorite Warframe, Hildryn, I freely admit that I'm a sucker for #1 flying around and #2 Exalted Weapons. Jade is the perfect merge of Titania and Hildryn, so my bias levels are going off the charts. My one and only suggestion for this Warframe Ability would be the same suggestion I'd give for all other Exalted Weapons: add Exilus and Arcane slots, it would be greatly appreciated! No changes needed whatsoever, unless it's for adding Exilus and Arcane slots across all Exalted Weapons.

That's it for my Jade overview and suggested improvements, I hope to reach one of the developers with this message. I also offer my apologies to anyone involved in the making of Jade's 3rd ability, as I was quite blunt about it's current state. I mean no offense, but it could certainly use a touch-up.

 

NOTICE: INCREASING THIS NUMBER WILL ENSURE ⬇️
    THE DEVELOPERS SEE THESE SUGGESTIONS ⬇️ 

Edited June 24 by BionicFreak
Additional Improvements Made

[OneOmniverse]

Well, they need to do something; all her abilities are so weak and limited by the duration, range, and strength. She doesn't feel like a support at all; she can barely heal or deal out damage, and the duration is just so low on her first. She just feels so useless compared to other support frames, and it makes me sad. 

[BionicFreak]

1 hour ago, OneOmniverse said:

Well, they need to do something; all her abilities are so weak and limited by the duration, range, and strength. She doesn't feel like a support at all; she can barely heal or deal out damage, and the duration is just so low on her first. She just feels so useless compared to other support frames, and it makes me sad. 

She breezes through Steel Path. So I'm not sure if you are talking about her functionality in Level Cap Steel Path, as I haven't tried that yet, but if you're talking about regular Steel Path missions, you might just need a hand in making a good build.

I'll make a build on Overframe (once they add Jade to it) and link it here.

Edited June 21 by BionicFreak

[BionicFreak]

2 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

the duration is just so low on her first.

Yeah they really need to increase it from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

[OneOmniverse]

2 hours ago, BionicFreak said:

She breezes through Steel Path. So I'm not sure if you are talking about her functionality in Level Cap Steel Path, as I haven't tried that yet, but if you're talking about regular Steel Path missions, you might just need a hand in making a good build.

I'll make a build on Overframe (once they add Jade to it) and link it here.

Sure, why not? She needs all the help she can get. 

53 minutes ago, BionicFreak said:

Yeah they really need to increase it from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

At the base, at least 20 and work from there. Yeah

[Tinderox]

hace 7 horas, BionicFreak dijo:

Symphony of Mercy: Jade's 2nd is very neat, but it does have an bug/flaw that needs to be fixed; it's duration increase per judgement-surrounded kill is not affected by Ability Duration, and it absolutely should be. Aside from that, it's third sub-ability, Spirit of Resilience, could use a buff. Currently, there is no incentive to use Spirit of Resilience. Changes needed.

For could tale this ability seems to be bug beacuse do not correctly snapshot powerstrength. If you cycle between buff and a power strength buff disappears, the Symphony of mercy power strength buff and all the others buff actualize their power strength whit is a huge problem. This frame works under the thought of she can get and mantain very high power strength values. That is not happening.

Also the shield buff should work as protea's shield ball.

hace 7 horas, BionicFreak dijo:

Base Defense Reduction being at 10%/s is pathetic and nowhere near the level of many other abilities that share the same function. With 200% Ability Strength, you'd have to look at an enemy for 5 seconds just to wipe it's armor. 5 seconds of sitting and staring at an enemy is just goofy. Most enemies are killed instantly, and the only ones that take longer to kill are the ones that are immune to 99% of Warframe abilities (Acolytes, Archons, Misc. Bosses, etc.). Again, this would not be an issue if Ophanim Eyes was a radial ability instead of a cone. I'd suggest increasing the base armor strip to 30-35% to make it useful.

This is an example. Why the base defense reduction is a 10%, easy, beacuse you can in theory reach 300 or 400% in power strength and mantain it. This is not happening.

 

hace 7 horas, BionicFreak dijo:

Glory on High: Jades Exalted 4th, also known as the fun factor. I must admit, I'm a little biased on this ability. As someone who got access in 2012 and did not like the game much at all, only to return in 2016 with the release of Titania and find my first favorite Warframe, then 2 more years later finding my second favorite Warframe, Hildryn, I freely admit that I'm a sucker for #1 flying around and #2 Exalted Weapons. Jade is the perfect merge of Titania and Hildryn, so my bias levels are going off the charts. My one and only suggestion for this Warframe Ability would be the same suggestion I'd give for all other Exalted Weapons: add Exilus and Arcane slots, it would be greatly appreciated! No changes needed whatsoever, unless it's for adding Exilus and Arcane slots across all Exalted Weapons.

That's it for my Jade overview and suggested improvements, I hope to reach one of the developers with this message. I also offer my apologies to anyone involved in the making of Jade's 3rd ability, as I was quite blunt about it's current state. I mean no offense, but it could certainly use a touch-up.

Glory on high also has pretty low base damage, but again that works under the asumption you have like a 300%  to 400% damage multiplier from your buff. but if you swap to Deathbringer, then you actualize your buff's power strength, losing a lot (For example, is very easy to lose like 125% extra power strength in the buff. which will be a total of  65%. This is only using 60%(vome invocation grimoire)+40% (sling strength)+ 25%(growing power). Whit very little investment in term of  capacity, you can reach a lot of power whit jade. but not as  Symphony of Mercy is right now.

What do you guys think Ophanim Eyes is a base duration ability instead of a channeled one. This way you can swap to power strength, cast it to have like 50% armor reduction per second. Go back to shield regen or weapon damage. 

As and example of how much is hurting Symphony of mercy he playability of jade. 

A jade equipped whit a grimorie whit vome invocation, Madurai sling strength maxed, growing power, molt augmented, molt vigor, and archon intensify, will have for a moment. (60+40+25+60+40+60), for a total of 385% power strength. This equal to, 96% extra power. 385% increase in weapon damage, and 38%  of your shield regen(Now image your whole squad recovering more than a third of your shield per second.).

When all the temporal buff expired you can only have molt augmented, growing power, and archon intensify, for a total of 245% power strength, now adding the power strength buff 343%, for the rest of the mission.

hace 7 horas, BionicFreak dijo:

Base Defense Reduction being at 10%/s is pathetic and nowhere near the level of many other abilities that share the same function.

Still low but the enemy defense will be stripped in 3 seconds.

Glory on High will pass from having a 150 base damage to a 577 base damage, the alternative fire will go from 1500 to 5775 base damage. Making it a very good exalted weapon.

Yeah, i think i made my point, the think that lags jade is Symphony of mercy, beacuse jade is make to work whit a rotating and snapshot buff, Today we only have a rotating buff. She is supposed to be a support but her buffs do not work as intended, Is she unusable in this state? No, but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the players.

[OneOmniverse]

1 hour ago, Tinderox said:

For could tale this ability seems to be bug beacuse do not correctly snapshot powerstrength. If you cycle between buff and a power strength buff disappears, the Symphony of mercy power strength buff and all the others buff actualize their power strength whit is a huge problem. This frame works under the thought of she can get and mantain very high power strength values. That is not happening.

They definitely sold this as part of her kit in the dev stream beung able to snapshot and strategize with it, so they definitely need to get on that and fix it. It's like one of the only things she had going for her; everything else is lacking. 

[BionicFreak]

7 hours ago, Tinderox said:

the shield buff should work as protea's shield ball.

That would be nice. Or just change it to something other than shields. Damage Mitigation (the same cheat feature that prevents us from 1-hitting most bosses) would be a neat alternative. Paired with Jade's 1st, Damage Mitigation would makes us practically unkillable 😁👍

Or, instead of a cheat feature like Damage Mitigation, it could just be simple Damage Resistance paired with Status Immunity. It needs to be something of actual use if they want us to use it over the other 2 sub-abilities.

Edited June 21 by BionicFreak

[BionicFreak]

Notice: added more possible improvements to Symphony of Mercy in the main post

[BionicFreak]

17 hours ago, OneOmniverse said:

At the base, at least 20 and work from there. Yeah

Agreed, for her base ability, but I'm not against making it infinite for a potential augment too. As I mentioned in the main post, removing the AoE damage and replacing it with a Weapon Buff that adds Fire Damage to everyone's weapons while in the radius and restricting us to 1 or 2 Light's Judgment at a time wouldn't be the worst idea. But if they did do that, I'd also like to see an increase to the base range. And once more, for clarification, this is for an Augment, not the base ability.

Now back to the base ability, I should add; Protea's Grenade Fan only has a base duration of 13 seconds, which is an ability that is very similar to Light's Judgment. The difference here is that Grenade Fan throws 3 orbs per cast, not 1. Grenade Fan's base range is also almost the exact same as Light's Judgment (5m instead of 6m), so throwing 3 per cast is pretty insane when compared to Light's Judgment. Not to mention, Protea can throw as many Grenade Fans as she pleases, while Jade has a limit of 5 Light's Judgments at a time. With all of this in mind, I think it's only fair that Light's Judgment gets double (if not triple) the base duration of Grenade Fan.

Edited June 22 by BionicFreak
Added bold text for clarification

[OneOmniverse]

4 minutes ago, BionicFreak said:

I'm not against making it infinite though. Like I mentioned in the main post, removing the AoE damage and replacing it with a Weapon Buff that adds Fire Damage to everyone's weapons while in the radius and restricting us to 1 Light's Judgement at a time wouldn't be the worst idea. But if they did do that, I'd also like to see an increase to the base range.

I get why they didn’t make it infinite since it has damage unlike Wisp, but they at least need to increase the base duration more. It’s way too short, and no to the having just one is not cool. I like having 5; it’s a good number and makes her that much more different from Wisp.

I suspect they made it that way to give her more coverage fir her since its not a guarantee and only a chance to have it work and also because they know how weak it was and weak she was before they released her and how strong she was when they demoed her.

[BionicFreak]

43 minutes ago, OneOmniverse said:

I get why they didn’t make it infinite since it has damage unlike Wisp, but they at least need to increase the base duration more. It’s way too short, and no to the having just one is not cool. I like having 5; it’s a good number and makes her that much more different from Wisp.

I suspect they made it that way to give her more coverage fir her since its not a guarantee and only a chance to have it work and also because they know how weak it was and weak she was before they released her and how strong she was when they demoed her.

Well as I mentioned in my main post, those changes would be in the form of an Augment, and the AoE damage would be removed from this variation of Light's Judgment. Also, it's important to note that Wisp can actually place six motes, which is more than Jade's limit of five Light's Judgments, so I wouldn't recommend reducing that small limit for the base ability.

My last reply might have lacked clarity, so I edited it for extra clarification and I added extra information to make a case to the developers that Light's Judgment should indeed have an extended base duration.

[Aeratin]

Personally I like the idea of her first ability lasting infinitely (or until you reach the max count then removing the oldest). I agree that her healing doesn't seem to do enough, especially when she doesn't buff her own ability strength with her second ability; maybe adding over-health per second after reaching max health would help her be a more viable healer/support. As for the shield buff on her second ability, you're right about that being very underwhelming, I haven't used it once since the other two are much more viable. A lot of people have mentioned how providing shield regen and health doesn't go well together so maybe an energy regen buff or energy on kill would help out more, I know I'd love having more frames that can generate energy and heal lol

[Shinoyami65]

53 minutes ago, BionicFreak said:

Well as I mentioned in my main post, those changes would be in the form of an Augment, and the AoE damage would be removed from this variation of Light's Judgment. Also, it's important to note that Wisp can actually place six motes, which is more than Jade's limit of five Light's Judgments, so I wouldn't recommend reducing that small limit for the base ability.

My last reply might have lacked clarity, so I edited it for extra clarification and I added extra information to make a case to the developers that Light's Judgment should indeed have an extended base duration.

Aside from the general issue of Augments being a bandaid for a frame's flaws which don't address issues in the base kit and require a mod slot, your proposal of an infinite duration 1 which only has 1 stack is honestly kind of pointless. Due to how Jade's passive and 4 work, you want to have as many "zones" as possible in order to get Judgement on enemies for the damage vulnerability and to detonate the stacks for her 4 alt fire (since 4 primary fire only has a chance to apply Judgement, 1 is always the fastest way to get stacks on a group for maximum boom). Limiting the number of wells you can have AND encouraging you to throw it under your teammates for a weapon buff rather than onto enemies to debuff them defeats the purpose of her passive for minimal gain.  

Ideally Jade should have infinite duration on her wells so that she can have one under her team and still be able to throw others into chokepoints/areas with high enemy density so that she can support while also applying her debuffs. Currently there's almost no reason to have one on your team due to the minimal healing, and you can't really use them to lock down an area because they run out so fast, so I've found myself just using it more like a grenade by flinging one on a mob whenever it shows up, blowing them up and then throwing another when a new mob shows up.

Edited June 22 by Shinoyami65

[Alaena.]

I just want to pitch in my thoughts from using her a lot since i got her, its kinda rambly since im not a writer though.

her 1 feels good but needs higher base duration (and maybe a teeny bit higher range too). it can feel somewhat clunky to use while in her 4 as there is a notable lagtime before you can start firing again

her 2 works but needs to snapshot strength on cast rather than on swapping buff, it also needs the duration gained from killing marked targets to scale with duration alongside this, possibly even a small buff to the base gain.
the shield bonus needs to be changed, right now i can never justify using it over the other two even when trying to help my team. maybe giving it some kind of shield gain on kill or status immunity? just something to make it worth using.

actually think her 3 is mostly fine as is? it could do with being quite a lot faster to revive, right now its quicker to just go operator. range feels a little bit short but only needs a small base increase. the ability works and I don't think it needs to be changed, but the changes would put it in a better place.

as for her 4 i think it needs work
movement is fine, but can feel clunky when trying to go fast and manage altitude, right now after using the dodge there is a significant delay before you can make height changes that isn't signalled to you, either removing this or adding input buffering would be a huge help.

as for glory its strong when you build around it but still lags behind other exalteds, needing more focus to get less power out. fire rate is too low to feel good without one or two big fire rate bonuses, and since those dont benefit secondary fire doing that makes it unusable. my suggestions would be a boost to base fire rate and possibly a tiny boost to crit and status. 

[ZiIIion]

On 2024-06-20 at 10:20 PM, BionicFreak said:

Light's Judgement: Jade's 1st ain't too bad as-is, but if I could offer any improvement, it would be to increase the base duration. During the last devstream, a developer claimed Light's Judgement would last infinitely, even claiming it would be similar to Wisp's motes (it actually works exactly like Zenurik's Wellspring, which is not infinite), which was obviously a slip of the tongue, so I wouldn't hold that over anyone, but the base duration of 10s is a little low. However, I would like to see an Augment Mod for Light's Judgment that is infinitely-lasting, but can only have one existing at a time, and perhaps it would include a slight increase to it's base radius. And since it would be infinitely-lasting, it would lose it's DoT flames and be replaced with a Weapon Buff that gives Fire Damage for those in it's radius. In addition, it would be nice if the base ability could heal Defense Objectives. Steel Path enemies love to 1-hit Defense Objectives :(. But as I said, this ability is fine as-is. Again, no changes needed, but would be welcome!

A neat augment mod idea, but having one would greatly limit her utility - I'd personally propose that she be allowed to throw down 2 similar to Wisp's own Mote Augment so as it to give Jade a little more leeway on how much area she can cover. Still, I appreciate the suggestion to change the DoT to a weapon buff when using an Augment and props to you for coming up with a way to balance it. There have been forum threads that incorrectly assumed Jade's ability was going to have infinite duration, and at this point I kinda sound like a broken record on why having having an infinite duration damage-dealing ability isn't good for the game.

An increase to duration, why yes please. But to make it forever? Let me put it this way.

Try to imagine a pre-made squad running a Jade 4-stack, and all of them are running a metric ton of power strength and ability range on their now infinitely lasting 1's that both heals them and damages enemies. If I had an ability like that and I could put down 5 instances of them and my entire team can also do this, you can bet your ass I'm gonna find a way to abuse the sh*t out of her 1. As will other players, too. Why play the game when I can just have the game play for me? Why plan where to make chokepoints when I can just have the whole map be a chokepoint?

Edited June 22 by ZiIIion

[Shinoyami65]

1 hour ago, ZiIIion said:

Try to imagine a pre-made squad running a Jade 4-stack, and all of them are running a metric ton of power strength and ability range on their now infinitely lasting 1's that both heals them and damages enemies. If I had an ability like that and I could put down 5 instances of them and my entire team can also do this, you can bet your ass I'm gonna find a way to abuse the sh*t out of her 1. As will other players, too. Why play the game when I can just have the game play for me? Why plan where to make chokepoints when I can just have the whole map be a chokepoint?

Because none of these 'chokepoints' actually stop enemies from moving out of the zone or shooting you to death (the DoT does not cause a CC or stagger, unlike other "AFK" abilities such as Octavia's Mallet or the old Resonating Quake) and the damage falls off pretty fast at higher levels. Sure, it's theoretically infinite damage if the enemy just stands in it until death, but it takes a very, very long time for the DoT alone to kill on its own, enemies can and will move out of it. Additionally, nullifier bubbles and Eximius units will just charge straight through.

Not to mention that trying to balance the game around 4-man premades of the same frame is an exercise in futility. You can already have a team with 4 Saryns clearing the map, 4 Proteas giving each other energy and holding a point indefinitely with their auto-turrets, 4 Octavias with their Mallets, or 4 Mesas aimbotting around. Hell, most non-endless missions already have 4 Wukongs speedrunning the map. Why does Jade need to get kneecapped when every other frame can team up with its clones to wreck face?

Edited June 22 by Shinoyami65

[ZiIIion]

1 hour ago, Shinoyami65 said:

Because none of these 'chokepoints' actually stop enemies from moving out of the zone or shooting you to death (the DoT does not cause a CC or stagger, unlike other "AFK" abilities such as Octavia's Mallet or the old Resonating Quake) and the damage falls off pretty fast at higher levels. Sure, it's theoretically infinite damage if the enemy just stands in it until death, but it takes a very, very long time for the DoT alone to kill on its own, enemies can and will move out of it. Additionally, nullifier bubbles and Eximius units will just charge straight through.

Not to mention that trying to balance the game around 4-man premades of the same frame is an exercise in futility. You can already have a team with 4 Saryns clearing the map, 4 Proteas giving each other energy and holding a point indefinitely with their auto-turrets, or 4 Mesas aimbotting around. Hell, most non-endless missions already have 4 Wukongs speedrunning the map. Why does Jade need to get kneecapped when every other frame can team up with its clones to wreck face?

You're missing my point - Jade being a nuke isn't the problem. With a specific type of build, she actually nukes enemies fairly well with her 4 and increasing the duration of her 1 will make her an even stronger nuke, which I'm all in for. That's not the issue - the issue is giving Jade that AFK potential she will have if you give her an endless ability that can deal an endless amount of damage with no consequences.

Octavia, Saryn, Protea, Wukong, and Mesa are all strong frames, yes. But you still need to actively engage their kit, whether it be recasting abilities or setting yourself up to nuke with your 4. It's also funny you bring up Protea's auto-turret, because there is a reason why her Blaze Artillery ability was designed and works the way it does. You ever wonder why the devs never gave her or Vauban a traditional sentry gun you see in other video games where you just put the thing down and forget about it while it goes to work killing enemies? If you've been playing Warframe long enough, you will know the devs are strongly against the idea of the game playing itself for you. That's why her turret has a duration and why you can't afk with her.

You brought up damage falling off at higher levels, and yes that's a fair point. But Warframe isn't a game centered around just high-level content - you still have the Star Chart and you still got your popular nodes including some low level ones. Who would want to do low-level farms, you ask? Not me and probably not you, but some Tenno out there is. At 155% power strength, a single instance of Jade's 1 can shred Level 30-50 Grineer fairly easily. Now picture this in the hypothetical situation I brought up in my previous post with 4 Jades. Might as well bring the crew some beach chairs and start handing out popcorn at that point. Low level, high level, doesn't matter - if there's an AFK strat can be done, that's already a problem. Hell, there might even be some player out there whose smarter than me that will figure out to exploit this in other ways.

Edited June 22 by ZiIIion

[Shinoyami65]

26 minutes ago, ZiIIion said:

You brought up damage falling off at higher levels, and yes that's a fair point. But Warframe isn't a game centered around just high-level content - you still have the Star Chart and you still got your popular nodes including some low level ones. Who would want to do low-level farms, you ask? Not me and probably not you, but some Tenno out there is. At 155% power strength, a single instance of Jade's 1 can shred Level 30-50 Grineer fairly easily. Now picture this in the hypothetical situation I brought up in my previous post with 4 Jades. Might as well bring the crew some beach chairs and start handing out popcorn at that point. Low level, high level, doesn't matter - if there's an AFK strat can be done, that's already a problem. Hell, there might even be some player out there whose smarter than me that will figure out to exploit this in other ways.

I've been using it in Level 30 Axi fissures while levelling/testing her with just an Umbral Intensify and a single cast of Jade's 1 is definitely not enough to kill any faction on its own. Maybe if it was larger, but as I said in my experience enemies just run out of it before the procs can kill them. The damage is only "endless" if enemies are dumb enough to stay in it...and in most Defence maps enemies will run out of the chokepoints to get to the open area where the objective is, which is much harder to cover.  

In non-Defence missions any zoning potential is also a non-factor since you need to keep moving so frequently.

Edited June 22 by Shinoyami65

[BionicFreak]

5 hours ago, ZiIIion said:

infinitely lasting 1's that both heals them and damages enemies.

I would advise people to fully read a post, instead of selectively reading it and skipping all of the important parts.

Spoiler

I will be adding bold text to make it easier for y'all to read.

I've stated both in the main post and in replies that the Augment would remove Light's Judgment's DoT Radial and replace it with a Weapon Buff

That being said, a few people have brought up the issue of Judgments being spread less often with only 1 or 2 Light's Judgments being able to be thrown, so I am looking into a way to fix that.

For the time being, I'm thinking of a way to spread Judgment procs with the Weapon Buff. That way any enemy hit by yourself or allies (while the Weapon Buff is active) will be proc'd with a Judgment.

I'll update the main post with a more detailed explanation soon.

Edited June 22 by BionicFreak
Added bold text for easier reading

[Shinoyami65]

1 hour ago, BionicFreak said:

 For the time being, I'm thinking of a way to spread Judgment procs with the Weapon Buff. That way any enemy hit by yourself or allies (while the Weapon Buff is active) will be proc'd with a Judgment.

I'll update the main post with a more detailed explanation soon.

Honestly I'm not convinced by this either. This means that instead of proccing Judgements in an area instantly and proactively you're waiting for them to get shot up first, and then assuming they haven't been blown to smithereens by you/your teammates' Kuva Bramma/Kuva Tonkor/Ogris/Phenmor spam maybe you might get to last hit them with Glory, as a little treat. In which case there's no reason to use her 4 when you can just drop a 1 under yourself and blast away.  

Your proposed augment would also be almost completely useless outside of Defence (and even in some Defence missions like Void Defence where people occasionally spread out across a wider area to clear spawns) because there are very few mission types in this day and age where you want to stick around in one area permanently instead of moving around. So unless the weapon buff is insanely good, there are also isn't a strong reason for allies to stay in the zone if their weapons are already good enough to clear the content.

Edited June 22 by Shinoyami65

[ZiIIion]

58 minutes ago, BionicFreak said:

I would advise people to fully read a post, instead of selectively reading it and skipping all of the important parts.

  Hide contents

I will be adding bold text to make it easier for y'all to read.

I've stated both in the main post and in replies that the Augment would remove Light's Judgment's DoT Radial and replace it with a Weapon Buff .

Nah, dude. I already read your post in full and in my first post, I already stated that I fully support this as a weapon buff.
 
My concerns were mainly for folks who wanted both the infinite duration and damage over time.

[OneOmniverse]

19 hours ago, BionicFreak said:

Wisp can actually place six motes

Omg, no wonder they gave Jade 5 then to be more on par with Wisp since they're similar. I could have sworn Wisp only had 3, but it's been a minute since I played her so. And i see 

[Tinderox]

Quick question. Were not suppose that Symphony of mercy, would take into account it own buff to power strength in the calculation of the other two buffs? Actually is do not doing that. I think i heard somehere that the ability do that whit the snapshot mechanic.

I have discovered while playing also a new thing. Jade shield buff, is actually pretty great, but the shield delay decrease must be buffed from -10 to -20(So we can reach the capp of Shield delay at 400% power strength instead of the 800% that one must actually do to get that value). Is actually pretty great to generate 40% of your max shield in a sec. To make the comprobation put in your jade any mod that reduce shield delay and give it a try, suddenly this buff gets pretty good.

And yes only the delay, not the actual value of shield recharge. we can in theory reach the 500% power strength, if the recharge value get to 20% base. It will break the game, an affinity range buff that regenerate all your shields under a second, will make any frame to tanky

Edited June 22 by Tinderox

[OneOmniverse]

19 hours ago, Aeratin said:

Personally I like the idea of her first ability lasting infinitely (or until you reach the max count then removing the oldest). I agree that her healing doesn't seem to do enough, especially when she doesn't buff her own ability strength with her second ability; maybe adding over-health per second after reaching max health would help her be a more viable healer/support. As for the shield buff on her second ability, you're right about that being very underwhelming, I haven't used it once since the other two are much more viable. A lot of people have mentioned how providing shield regen and health doesn't go well together so maybe an energy regen buff or energy on kill would help out more, I know I'd love having more frames that can generate energy and heal lol

I think Harrow is the only one that has the ability to regenerate energy, but I don’t remember if it’s only for himself or everyone.