Why do they double down with unnecessary annoying systems/mechanics/visuals?

[zThulsaDoomz]

I love seeing legitimate complaints about knockdowns just days after some stable genius claims PSF is overrated and people just aren't playing good enough

[MrInubis]

2 hours ago, zThulsaDoomz said:

I love seeing legitimate complaints about knockdowns just days after some stable genius claims PSF is overrated and people just aren't playing good enough

And he was right. I have it on literally 2 frames and i live somehow. Guess what? I also suck at the game.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

6 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Remove the caps, and gate content off into blocks.  Solves several issues at once.  Veteran players aren't restricted by pointless caps.  No more complaints from vets about dealing with super low level, unprepared newbies in late game content.  Newbies are gated off from things they aren't ready for so that it's easier for them to focus on things their power level and experience is more in line with.  Liches for instance.  It has been suggested a hundred times to gate Liches/Sisters behind a solo quest.  If you can't handle the quest, you will not be able to handle a Lich without someone carrying you.  It also prevents a newbie from accidentally getting a Lich they can't handle, which has happened to so many players I know.  I actually think it was a big mistake to remove the solo requirement for Rising Tide.  If they can't handle that quest on their own, they're going to get smoked in an actual RJ mission.

The problem is and always has been that it's better for their bottom line to actually screw everyone over by just releasing newbies into nearly all content.  If you actually had to learn the mechanics and be able to handle the content, before being allowed into pub matchmaking for content, it would improve a lot of things.  They don't want to gate off the shiny new things though, because the newbies want to be endgame on day one.

But in order to get lich, they need to complete several things first, such as completing The War Within quest, obtaining Mastery Rank 5, and acquiring a Railjack, that alone requires some work, and do you think that's not Gating enough? And also, Lich was never meant to be a solo type of mission. What you propose is basically saying "F the nooobs, Git gud", when this game is about working together as a community.

It also doesn't make any sense to say "remove the caps and gate content off into blocks". This is pretty much like saying "you can only get syndicate standing from their respective missions, you can no longer get standing while playing whatever you want while wearing syndicate sigil, or switching pledge in syndicate menu", or "Archwing can only be used in Archwing missions" or "archguns can only be used in Archwing missions". And that's basically how to gate content off into blocks.

Then the newbies would complain, "why DE only cater to vets?" And then leave the game, then the vets who have nearly everything this game has to offer don't really have any incentive to play everyday (because the caps have been removed, so people hoards everything with no limitations) and then the overall playerbase would decrease, which means less revenue for DE, and it will keep decreasing to the point that it affects the development of the game. Is this what you want?.

For the record, the reason why this game lasted as long as it have, besides unique creative directions that it has, and the "always deliver the updates ASAP" mentality that it has (bless you Steve), is because this game caters to all kinds of playerbase.

Edited July 26 by (PSN)ATreidezz

[MrDugan]

On 2024-07-26 at 12:11 AM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

But in order to get lich, they need to complete several things first, such as completing The War Within quest, obtaining Mastery Rank 5, and acquiring a Railjack, that alone requires some work, and do you think that's not Gating enough? And also, Lich was never meant to be a solo type of mission. What you propose is basically saying "F the nooobs, Git gud", when this game is about working together as a community.

MR5 is a joke in terms of actual time spent in the game.  At that point in the game, many new players are still hitting a new MR every day.  It means nothing.  And considering enemy level in the early quests is low, and TWW holds your hand pretty hard throughout, there's nothing there to prepare a newer player for missions that start in the 50's (higher than anywhere on the basic star chart.) much less prep them for a level 5 lich with damage attenuation.

Also, not only will you not have a source that liches were supposed to be run multiplayer and that solo is discouraged, but there is a MASSIVE difference between "we're running this as a group" and "I expect to be carried."  I'm not saying "F the noobs."  I'm saying don't be luggage.  And if you want to reframe "be prepared for the content you're playing" as "git gud" then so be it.  It's warframe though.  It's not like it's hard to get to that point.

 

On 2024-07-26 at 12:11 AM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

you can only get syndicate standing from their respective missions, you can no longer get standing while playing whatever you want while wearing syndicate sigil, or switching pledge in syndicate menu

That would be YOU putting words in my mouth, because I said nothing of the sort and I absolutely despise people speaking for me.  Content refers to things like liches.  Or railjack.  Or anywhere there's a difficulty spike.  Not standing gains.  I know reading comprehension is at an all time low on the internet, but "remove caps" and "gate harder content" are two different points.  You're just making up BS nonsense as if I said any of it to make a point, and you can miss me with that.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

9 hours ago, MrDugan said:

MR5 is a joke in terms of actual time spent in the game.  At that point in the game, many new players are still hitting a new MR every day.  It means nothing.  And considering enemy level in the early quests is low, and TWW holds your hand pretty hard throughout, there's nothing there to prepare a newer player for missions that start in the 50's (higher than anywhere on the basic star chart.) much less prep them for a level 5 lich with damage attenuation.
 

this is a common misconception. MR DOESN'T EQUAL SKILLS. It's just means that if one has high MR, then they have broader experience in the game as they have experienced or tried more equipments, and completed more levels. I have met some players with low MR 8 who don't bother with other contents other than hunting Eidolons for the purpose of selling Arcanes. They easily outdamage and outpace me in that particular activity. So you're wrong on this matter. 

 

9 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Also, not only will you not have a source that liches were supposed to be run multiplayer and that solo is discouraged,

If Lich weren't supposed to be run as multiplayer with other people, then why does it available as multiplayer? shouldn't it just be solo? the fact that you can hunt Lich together with other people in the same session is the proof that IT IS ALSO MEANT FOR MULTIPLAYER. So you're wrong on this matter.

 

9 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Content refers to things like liches.  Or railjack.  Or anywhere there's a difficulty spike.  Not standing gains.  I know reading comprehension is at an all time low on the internet, but "remove caps" and "gate harder content" are two different points.

oh, so now you're cherry picking between game modes and faction-based reputation system ? so one is Content, and the other is what? not content?

and you didn't said "remove caps" and "gate harder content", you said, and i quote

On 2024-07-26 at 4:42 AM, MrDugan said:

Remove the caps, and gate content off into blocks

INTO BLOCKS meaning you divide the contents so that they cannot intersect with the other contents.

that means what i just said before is correct, and you're wrong again on this matter 

 

So that's 3 strikes for you sir.

And to add things:

9 hours ago, MrDugan said:

there is a MASSIVE difference between "we're running this as a group" and "I expect to be carried."  I'm not saying "F the noobs."  I'm saying don't be luggage.  And if you want to reframe "be prepared for the content you're playing" as "git gud" then so be it.  It's warframe though.  It's not like it's hard to get to that point.

This is a logical fallacy, you're saying this AS IF you have no choice to control the session. If you don't want to carry anyone, if you don't want a "luggage", you can choose to play SOLO, or with friends only, or forming a premeditated squad.  

[MrDugan]

On 2024-07-27 at 11:06 PM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

MR DOESN'T EQUAL SKILLS

Didn't say it did.  Didn't even imply it.  You said that MR 5 was enough of a gate, I said it wasn't because the implication there is that MR doesn't equal skill.  Being MR5 does not automatically qualify or disqualify you to handle the content. 

But a solo quest where you face down a lich on your own does prove you can handle the content, where MR does not.  You're putting words in my mouth again.
 

On 2024-07-27 at 11:06 PM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

If Lich weren't supposed to be run as multiplayer with other people, then why does it available as multiplayer?

Massive lack of reading comprehension here.  You literally just sailed right over what I said.  Multiplayer is available.  Yes.  So is solo.  You cannot provide a source that shows that either is the main intended path, while the other is "optional."  That means you cannot prove that the difficulty curve is intended for groups.  You also just conveniently ignore the main point there.  Which is that regardless of which is actually intended, getting hard carried and begging for carries in recruit chat because you can't handle the content are obviously not the intended way to handle a lich.  I'm not shocked that you decided not to address that though.

 

On 2024-07-27 at 11:06 PM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

oh, so now you're cherry picking between game modes and faction-based reputation system 

How is this cherry picking?  One is a passive gain based on affinity, and the other is playable content.  You're trying to conflate the two to make a point, and you're not making that point.  Removing standing caps is one point.  Gating content off into blocks is another point.  "Blocks" does not refer to things that do not interact like you keep trying to say it does.  I'm the one that said it, I know what I meant.  Blocks.  "Tiers" if that's easier for you to understand.  I don't have the crayons to explain this to you any simpler.  You're MR 3 or whatever (I know you're not going to understand how examples work, but try to bear with me.) and you can run basic star chart and fissures.  You're MR 5 and you get the option to run things like TWW.  You beat that and you can start the quest to see if you can handle a lich.  Liches are gated off into a "tier" or "block" until you beat that quest.  Same with Eidolons.  Same with RJ.  Example: You can't join an eidolon hunt until you prove you understand the mechanics well enough to kill one by yourself.  Maybe it's even a wounded, or flawed one, so that it's easier.  But you'd actually gain an understanding of how it works before you go in expecting to get hard carried though all of them.  You can't run TNW until you've done a bunch of other stuff first, this is the exact same concept and I don't understand how you're not getting that.

Heaven forbid players expect other players to actually contribute to missions.  Tell me you leech pubs without telling me.

Every non-point you try to make is you just putting words into my mouth so you can argue with YOUR idea of what I said, because you lack the comprehension to actually argue with what was written.  I'm just blocking you, so have fun yelling at me.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 hour ago, MrDugan said:

Didn't say it did.  Didn't even imply it.  You said that MR 5 was enough of a gate, I said it wasn't because the implication there is that MR doesn't equal skill.  Being MR5 does not automatically qualify or disqualify you to handle the content. 

But a solo quest where you face down a lich on your own does prove you can handle the content, where MR does not.  You're putting words in my mouth again.

Quote

On 2024-07-26 at 4:42 AM, MrDugan said:

Remove the caps, and gate content off into blocks.  Solves several issues at once.  Veteran players aren't restricted by pointless caps.  No more complaints from vets about dealing with super low level, unprepared newbies in late game content.  Newbies are gated off from things they aren't ready for so that it's easier for them to focus on things their power level and experience is more in line with.  Liches for instance. 

Keep running away from your own words dude. "Newbies are gated off from things THEY AREN'T READY FOR so that it's easier for them to focus on things their power level and experience is more in line with. Liches for instance. It has been suggested a hundred times to gate Liches/Sisters behind a solo quest.  If you can't handle the quest, you will not be able to handle a Lich without someone carrying you." 

You clearly imply that newbies have no skills to deal with liches, because THEY AREN'T READY , and then you also said that "it has been suggested to gate Liches/Sisters behind a solo quest". So here's a question, has there ever been any HARD SOLO QUEST (as in Steel path or high level enemies) in Warframe? Because as far as i know, the only hard thing about solo quest is the game mechanic, such as in The War Within quest.

 

1 hour ago, MrDugan said:

Multiplayer is available.  Yes.  So is solo.  You cannot provide a source that shows that either is the main intended path, while the other is "optional."  That means you cannot prove that the difficulty curve is intended for groups.  

I never said either is the main intended path, while the other is optional, i said "Lich was never meant to be a solo type of mission" and now you're the one putting words in my mouth.

 

1 hour ago, MrDugan said:

You also just conveniently ignore the main point there.  Which is that regardless of which is actually intended, getting hard carried and begging for carries in recruit chat because you can't handle the content are obviously not the intended way to handle a lich.  I'm not shocked that you decided not to address that though.

So players asking for help or even asking to be carried from other players is wrong now? Since when? 

 

1 hour ago, MrDugan said:

How is this cherry picking?  One is a passive gain based on affinity, and the other is playable content.  

both are CONTENTS, and yes, you're cherry picking it. It seems that you lack of understanding for even a simple word. A simple search in google can help you avoid this embarrassing situation.

Game Content means any templates, modules, functions, features, images, audio data, video data, or other content that may be used by a Game Creator when creating a Game.

Game Content is defined as anything that is included within the game. The game itself is the content.

 

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

you're not making that point.  Removing standing caps is one point.  Gating content off into blocks is another point.  "Blocks" does not refer to things that do not interact like you keep trying to say it does.  I'm the one that said it, I know what I meant.  Blocks.  "Tiers" if that's easier for you to understand. 

first you said "gate harder content", when previously you said "gate content off into blocks", now you said "Blocks" to describe "Tiers".     

at this point, i believe you would just change whatever you have said before nilly willy for the sake of your own convenience.

 

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Heaven forbid players expect other players to actually contribute to missions.  Tell me you leech pubs without telling me.

Im MRL 4. do i need to leech for something?

 

3 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Example: You can't join an eidolon hunt until you prove you understand the mechanics well enough to kill one by yourself.

Did you know that when Eidolon first introduced, even DE didn't tell us how to defeat it? The players working together and found out how to defeat it. I learned how to defeat Eidolon through the partner's (back then the partnership program with DE still exist) youtube channel. 

And Eidolon is A BOSS and i can tell you for certain that the main intended way to deal with eidolon is not by SOLO, but with a squad. 

Can you imagine if in order to be able to do Eidolon with a squad, you must first be able to kill one yourself? if you can kill one yourself why do you need a squad to begin with? This isn't a Single Player game, this is a Multiplayer Online game.

 

2 hours ago, MrDugan said:

Every non-point you try to make is you just putting words into my mouth so you can argue with YOUR idea of what I said, because you lack the comprehension to actually argue with what was written.  I'm just blocking you, so have fun yelling at me.

Aaaaannndddd.....he's gone

yep, that's what most people would do when they can't accept the fact that their arguments have failed them.

For the record, you're the one who got all mad and said non sensical things like how i "lack comprehension" or accusing me of leeching, while i'm trying to be civil about this discussion.

AND you still haven't answered my previous question:

Quote

On 2024-07-25 at 7:24 AM, (PSN)ATreidezz said:

That's not the point, the point is people will always complain. Newbies complain that there's too much contents to go through, Veterans will complain about content drought because they already have enough to rush the contents. So if you're in the devs position, how would you appease to both playerbase?