Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[Lohillus]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

This is very black and white.

1 stack has 8 second individually. All 10 stacks each expire individually after 8 second from their own individual timers.

I hope this clears things up for you and anyone else confused.

Yes after 8 seconds of not applying the status all up to 10 stacks will have individually lost their timer and be gone, glad we agree as the evidence in the video corroborates

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

21 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You can't go around making two posts on the same page on a topic saying the exact opposite ; make up your mind :

 

If you made a mistake or misunderstood something, that's fine, but you don't seem to acknowledge it.

Where's the inconsistency or what are you confused about. Everything i said is true.

[Daiphelion]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Ok so first, the update didnt come out within the last few weeks. It will be released Oct. 5th of 2024.

Secondly, an ability that causes the lifted status effect will not end prematurely from any damage. They will last their full duration unless the target dies or the ability is nullified.

 

Lifted status effects from melee does not have this privilege as stated in the wiki.

Which would be fine if a) the person I was talking to, who was not you, was referring to upcoming circumstances rather than what they're trying to work out as being in the game currently, and b) it had already been implemented so we can confirm it, to which I reiterate: Trust but Verify. 

Also, Lifted conferred from Sentients Wrath currently behaves precisely the same way as Lifted from melee sources; if you shoot an enemy they still fall to the ground as the effect will be terminated at that point, and I literally just confirmed that 5 minutes ago. 

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

1 minute ago, Lohillus said:

Yes after 8 seconds of not applying the status all up to 10 stacks will have individually lost their timer and be gone, glad we agree as the evidence in the video corroborates

This is completely false and misleading. Let it be known to anyone reading that the claim made here is incorrect. I’ve explained how the status effect mechanics work, and the facts are clear. What the developers specifically said is: ‘Tau’s Status Effect inflicts Status Chance Vulnerability to enemies affected by it, with a max of 10 stacks culminating in 100% Status Chance Vulnerability (10% per stack), with each stack individually lasting 8 seconds!’ This means each stack has its own independent timer and decays individually after 8 seconds—not all at once. Reapplying a Tau status effect refreshes the stack count, as is consistent with status mechanics across the game.

 

Regarding the video being referenced, this is another point where misinformation is being spread. Devstream 181 at the 34:56 to 34:57 mark shows edited gameplay to demonstrate the 3rd ability, not how the Tau status timer works. In fact, the video clearly shows an edit jump where the Summulyst is being featured after the cut. The video does not provide any evidence of a sudden removal of all stacks after 8 seconds, nor does it disprove the individual decaying nature of the stacks.

[Rexis12]

I hope Tau Status is multiplicative with final status chance. 

Use Caliban with fellow Sentient's Phantasma to apply several thousand heat procs per second. 

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

4 minutes ago, Daiphelion said:

Which would be fine if a) the person I was talking to, who was not you, was referring to upcoming circumstances rather than what they're trying to work out as being in the game currently, and b) it had already been implemented so we can confirm it, to which I reiterate: Trust but Verify. 

Also, Lifted conferred from Sentients Wrath currently behaves precisely the same way as Lifted from melee sources; if you shoot an enemy they still fall to the ground as the effect will be terminated at that point, and I literally just confirmed that 5 minutes ago. 

Yes the ability of Caliban's 2nd currently does not do what the updated ability will do on October 5th of 2024.

[dwqrf]

il y a 17 minutes, (PSN)Grand_Sheba a dit :

Where's the inconsistency or what are you confused about. Everything i said is true.

Lol, no it's not. Your two quoted posts are stellar opposite, they can't both be true.

You are mistaken.

[Lohillus]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

This is completely false and misleading. Let it be known to anyone reading that the claim made here is incorrect. I’ve explained how the status effect mechanics work, and the facts are clear. What the developers specifically said is: ‘Tau’s Status Effect inflicts Status Chance Vulnerability to enemies affected by it, with a max of 10 stacks culminating in 100% Status Chance Vulnerability (10% per stack), with each stack individually lasting 8 seconds!’ This means each stack has its own independent timer and decays individually after 8 seconds—not all at once. Reapplying a Tau status effect refreshes the stack count, as is consistent with status mechanics across the game.

 

Regarding the video being referenced, this is another point where misinformation is being spread. Devstream 181 at the 34:56 to 34:57 mark shows edited gameplay to demonstrate the 3rd ability, not how the Tau status timer works. In fact, the video clearly shows an edit jump where the Summulyst is being featured after the cut. The video does not provide any evidence of a sudden removal of all stacks after 8 seconds, nor does it disprove the individual decaying nature of the stacks.

I missed the cut actually so good catch there, was mostly jsut watching to see when he targetted over an enemy again after using the ranged dudes.

 

As to the falloff we'll just have to see, and unfortunately it still seems like it will be very underwhelming regardless

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

26 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Which is funny because as they are going to remove slash, impact, and explosive damage from Caliban, having instead Tau damage and Tau status on all his spells, and nothing else ; you won't be able to build any single synergy or strategy within his kit ; without being extremely weapon dependant.

The Conculysts deal slash damage.

 

Tau damage is true neutral damage, meaning it has no inherent weaknesses or resistances—making it highly versatile and powerful. This allows Caliban's abilities to work effectively against a wide range of enemies without relying on the usual damage type limitations.

 

The synergy in his kit isn't about one-dimensional builds but about enhancing your entire arsenal. With Tau status applying status vulnerability, it amplifies all status procs from both weapons and abilities, creating a strategic advantage not only for you but for your entire team.

 

Relying on weapons is just one aspect—Caliban enhances everything else, making him a powerful support and DPS frame. The key isn't about removing synergy but about how that synergy plays out across your whole loadout.

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

15 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

I hope Tau Status is multiplicative with final status chance. 

Use Caliban with fellow Sentient's Phantasma to apply several thousand heat procs per second. 

It is multiplicative, not additive. Go crazy!

9 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Lol, no it's not. Your two quoted posts are stellar opposite, they can't both be true.

You are mistaken.

Again, point out how. If you're confused about something ill try to clarify for you.

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, (PSN)Grand_Sheba a dit :

the updated ability will do on October 5th of 2024.

When you talk about the 5th, do you mean the 2nd ? Or are they both true too ? Eternalism. 🤷

il y a 14 minutes, (PSN)Grand_Sheba a dit :

 This means each stack has its own independent timer and decays individually after 8 seconds—not all at once. Reapplying a Tau status effect refreshes the stack count, as is consistent with status mechanics across the game.

So you are trying to tell us that adding a single new Tau effect refresh the stack. The stack. So that means effects aren't individually timed if they can all be refreshed ? Or they are both true too ? 🤔

If they are applied at once, they will all decay at once, period.

Come on bro.

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

 

11 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

When you talk about the 5th, do you mean the 2nd ? Or are they both true too ? Eternalism. 🤷

So you are trying to tell us that adding a single new Tau effect refresh the stack. The stack. So that means effects aren't individually timed if they can all be refreshed ? Or they are both true too ? 🤔

If they are applied at once, they will all decay at once, period.

Come on bro.

the oct 5th is is mistaken for sure. I definitely meant the 2nd. Thanks for catching that. Man in the wall had my brain.

 

When I said it refreshes the stack I'm pointing out that it doesnt go past 10 stacks. So it gives a fresh new 8 second stack and if at 10 stacks already the 10th will replace the oldest stack. This gives the target a fresh new stack with its own 8 second timer.

To explain again: each individual stack of Tau status is timed separately, meaning they each have their own 8-second timer. However, applying a new stack refreshes that individual stack with its own new 8-second timer. So yes, it’s true that each stack decays individually after 8 seconds, but reapplying a new stack doesn’t refresh all the previous stacks—it simply adds a new one, extending the overall duration as long as you keep applying the status.

 

If you apply 10 Tau status effects, they won’t all expire at once after 8 seconds. Instead, each stack lasts its own 8-second window, decaying one-by-one unless refreshed. This creates a rolling effect, so you won’t lose all stacks instantly unless you stop applying status altogether.

 

To be clear: reapplying does not reset all stacks at once but adds more to keep the chain going.

Edited 2 hours ago by (PSN)Grand_Sheba
I like the eternalism comment, it was funny. So i added a reply to it.

[Tenno_Aster]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Due to their mechanics and separate interactions with caliban this could crash most peoples games, cause huge lage for the Ai, the players or both as well as flood the screen with big Sentients all around you. 

I went to the Simi and spawned in all those Sentient and tried it out like you suggested. The Sentients Ai didnt have them float directly infront of my line of sight, not often. If they were they seem to move out the way. Most opting to patrol  if there were no enemies 

During combat it wasnt as conjestested as i thought though this is in the simi. It does seem very powerful though and to compensate in a reward way similar to all other minionmancer frames,  like nekros or Revenant for example, i could see a compromise of havinf them survive on their own timers per summon instead of disappearing when you summon a different squad.

 

Being able to flat out summon all 13 at the same time would be a bit much and sometime or some players may not even want all of them on screen at the time. 

But after trying it out myself i definitely see where you're coming from and if they accept this compromise id see it as a great QOL change that doesnt waste energy or duration builds. Im glad you brought this up, ill type out a QOL update before the update and submit it.

that was basically my suggestion. The option to have them all up an running, assuming you have the energy and the time to cast the summon. But you might not need or want to use all of them all the time. It'd just be fun to have the option to.

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

On 2024-09-27 at 4:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Our intentions with Caliban’s rework are to match his power to other Warframes but emphasize his unique Sentient identity and what that power fantasy would feel like to play. To do this, we’re re-working his Ability damage and the utility of his Abilities while emphasizing the adaptability and synergy of a Sentient-Warframe’s kit. When Caliban enters the field, there’s no defense Caliban can’t adapt to.

Updated Rework Proposal: Caliban’s Passive - Adaptive Armor

 

Goal: To emphasize Caliban’s Sentient identity by enhancing his adaptability in combat and creating synergy with existing mechanics, while resolving issues of redundancy and ensuring the power fantasy of a Sentient-Warframe.

 

Developer Vision:

 

As stated in the developers' notes: "When Caliban enters the field, there’s no defense Caliban can’t adapt to."

 

The rework should make Caliban feel like a true sentient, capable of adapting to all incoming damage in ways that no other Warframe can. This includes adaptive mechanics that scale with gameplay, allowing Caliban to feel more resilient the longer he remains in combat.

 

Reworked Passive: Adaptive Armor (100% Cap)

 

Current Problem:

 

1. Redundancy with Adaptation: Players are inclined to use the Adaptation mod instead of relying on Caliban’s passive because the benefits of Adaptation are broader and more reliable.

 

 

2. Limited Effectiveness Against DoTs: Adaptive Armor offers no protection against DoT effects (Slash, Toxin, Heat), which are particularly dangerous in higher-level content.

 

 

3. No Stacking Synergy: Currently, Adaptive Armor and Adaptation don’t synergize well, creating a conflict in using both for defense, ultimately making one redundant.

 

Solution:

Proposed Passive:

1. Adaptive Armor - 100% Cap for Caliban

 

Caliban can now adapt up to 100% damage reduction against any damage type (e.g., Impact, Slash, Puncture, etc.). This cap only applies to Caliban, while allies still receive up to 50% damage reduction.

 

The 100% cap ensures that Caliban fully embodies the "Sentient power fantasy", where he can fully adapt to any incoming damage, reflecting his lore.

 

2. Decay Mechanic:

After 5 seconds of not taking damage from a particular damage type, Caliban’s resistance decays by 2% per second, even if he continues to take damage from other sources. This forces players to stay engaged in combat and prevents Caliban from becoming invulnerable indefinitely.

 

3. Interaction with Adaptation:

Adaptation can still be used alongside Adaptive Armor but is no longer necessary for Caliban. Adaptation will allow Caliban to resist DoT effects (Slash, Toxin, Heat), where Adaptive Armor offers no protection. This creates a balanced synergy where Adaptive Armor protects against direct damage, while Adaptation helps mitigate DoTs.

 

Math Behind the Synergy:

 

Damage Reduction:

Adaptive Armor:

For Only Caliban, each hit adds 5% damage resistance up to 100% for the damage type dealt.

 

Example: If Caliban takes continuous Slash damage, his resistance to Slash will increase by 5% up to 100%.

 

This applies to Physical (Impact, Puncture, Slash), Elemental (Heat, Toxin, Cold, Electricity, etc.), and Combined Damage Types (Corrosive, Radiation, Viral, etc.).

 

Decay:

Adaptive Armor builds damage resistance against the highest damage type received from enemy attacks, stacking 5% per hit up to a cap of 50% (for allies) and  100%(for caliban). If Caliban or his allies do not receive damage for 5 seconds, their Adaptive Armor loses 2% per second eventually reducing back to 0%.

Adaptation (Mod):

 

If Adaptation is equipped, it still works to reduce raw damage from DoTs like Slash, Toxin, etc., which Adaptive Armor cannot mitigate.

 

Adaptation provides up to 90% damage reduction after receiving multiple hits of a damage type. This mod can be stacked with Adaptive Armor for non-DoT damage, providing additional layering for maximum defense.

 

Why This Rework Works:

 

1. Sentient Power Fantasy:

 

The 100% damage reduction cap is perfectly aligned with the developer’s vision of Caliban adapting to all damage types. It fully enhances the Sentient identity, giving Caliban the ultimate adaptation capability.

 

The decay mechanic ensures that Caliban’s adaptation isn’t permanent, requiring players to stay engaged in combat, which adds strategic depth to his playstyle.

 

2. Solves Redundancy:

 

By removing the need for Adaptation, Caliban players will no longer need to rely on an external mod to enhance his passive. He is now self-sufficient, with Adaptive Armor taking on the primary defensive role.

 

Adaptation can still be useful in handling DoT effects, creating a natural synergy without making it mandatory.

 

3. Better Utility and Scalability:

 

Caliban can now scale better in high-level content because he can fully adapt to the most dangerous incoming damage types, making him incredibly resilient in drawn-out encounters.

 

4. Balanced and Fair:

 

The decay ensures balance. Caliban won’t become permanently immune, but he gains powerful defenses that decay over time, encouraging tactical repositioning and engagement.

 

Adaptive Armor still caps at 50% for allies, providing reasonable defense without being overpowered in co-op play.

 

Conclusion:

 

By capping Adaptive Armor at 100% for Caliban, we align with the developer’s goal of fully embracing his Sentient identity. This rework solves redundancy issues, provides a strong thematic fit, and creates layered defense mechanics that work in synergy with existing mods. It also maintains balance through the decay mechanic, rewarding players who adapt their playstyle to keep Caliban in the thick of combat.

 

This rework ensures Caliban feels powerful, adaptable, and true to his Sentient origins, while also scaling well into high-level content without becoming invulnerable.

Now, this vision can become fully realized.

On 2024-09-27 at 4:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

When Caliban enters the field, there’s no defense Caliban can’t adapt to.

 

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

3 minutes ago, Tenno_Aster said:

that was basically my suggestion. The option to have them all up an running, assuming you have the energy and the time to cast the summon. But you might not need or want to use all of them all the time. It'd just be fun to have the option to.

I definitely feel you. I think the best compromise is to have them hace their own timers in groups like the previous summon was for just one Sentient. Having the cycle wheel mech to let players choose exactly which they want out at a time or just tapping to get all 3 version out on their own timers would add great versatility.

[Tenno_Aster]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

I definitely feel you. I think the best compromise is to have them hace their own timers in groups like the previous summon was for just one Sentient. Having the cycle wheel mech to let players choose exactly which they want out at a time or just tapping to get all 3 version out on their own timers would add great versatility.

Yep, I figured that's how the ability was going to work to begin with before I realized you could only have one type at a time. This would have you clicking to multiple times to get all your sentients going, much like you do right now on live to get all three of your conculysts out, but that  effort would feel more earned with the ability wheel.

Summoning one of each with one click just sounds like a less preferable option, but also potentially an augment. I don't see that option being nearly as fun, but it could be very likely to happen.

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

3 minutes ago, Tenno_Aster said:

Yep, I figured that's how the ability was going to work to begin with before I realized you could only have one type at a time. This would have you clicking to multiple times to get all your sentients going, much like you do right now on live to get all three of your conculysts out, but that  effort would feel more earned with the ability wheel.

Summoning one of each with one click just sounds like a less preferable option, but also potentially an augment. I don't see that option being nearly as fun, but it could be very likely to happen.

Yeah i forgot about the augment. They do have to save some sauce for them. I agree with you heavy, its definitely augment worthy. As long as they fix his passive to be soemthing like i suggested above or comparable to the Adaptation mod so we dont need to equip it to get a better effect then the update will be great.

 

I could nitpick more on the fact he doesnt have his own floating movement animations but thats more bearable than the current passive.

[Zykk]

Some of these changes look like they will become 'cycled' abilities.
Please make all icons on every cycled ability (on every frame) color-coded for visual accessibility.

Titania is still lacking this while Vauban and Ivara have it.

The colors of the icons help me to see what I am doing. Not having the colors means I cycle endlessly through the 4 blurs and makes me want to stop playing.

[Battalyst]

Caliban's rework has certainly improved his standing as a member of the Warframe cast, but he's definitely still got a handful of problems.

My first and most major concern about Caliban's kit here is the removal of the armor-strip zone on his 4, as most others here have discussed. It was, like, his thing. I'd like if you could revert that, please.

Next, Lethal Progeny sounds nice on paper, but I can tell by way of sniffing the air that it's not as good as it sounds. Conculysts are about to be useless when it comes to just about anything: They may deal Tau damage, but it's meaningless given that they can only do a maximum of 10,000 damage per hit, which is about the amount of damage a secondary deals per-hit before stacking at high-level content. They are unaffected by Warframe Mods, meaning that they do not benefit from Strength to increase their damage and have become a functionally useless part of his kit. They no longer provide any service.

The Ortholysts are awesome as primers, but the big issue here is that every Tau status lasts 8 seconds individually. They don't inherit status duration like Heat Status does, meaning that it would take all three Ortholysts on a single target to keep it primed for more than a few seconds. They might spread a little bit of status vulnerability around the battlefield, but that's not very strong when nearly every other frame can look in the general direction of an enemy, activate their first ability, and eradicate them from the map. Please consider making Tau status function like Heat, where it inherits duration. This alone would make Ortholysts worth using.

The Summulyst is my favorite Sentient enemy, and I fear that he's been punched in the throat. The main issue here is how the Shield Recharge function works: It only seems to recharge shields at an extremely slow rate around the Summulyst. While I appreciate the team-defensive value of the Summulyst here, it seems like little more than a pretty thing to lob out onto the field. The reasons are thus:

• The Choralysts do not move away from the Summulyst in the given clips. This isn't an issue against the Infested given their few ranged forms of attack, but this is incredibly bad when you're up against anyone ranged. It draws hitscan attacks towards itself and will drink projectiles like a fine wine, eating deadly AoEs from Leech Eximus units and soaking up errant shots until it collapses.
• The Summulyst does not appear to defend itself. I like that it makes a whole bunch of little guys, but they don't do anything besides scurry around and get holes punched in them (or, well, bigger ones than Sentients normally have!). It has two cannons; Can it not fire them? At the very least, could the spawned Choralysts have a weak, short-ranged attack dealing Puncture status to reduce the damage to themselves or the Summulyst?
• It's useless outside of missions with a stationary objective. Why would you use this summon if you're doing anything on the move? I understand that it's meant to help draw fire, but Conculysts are too slow to actually deal damage when not performing their Tornado attack and Ortholysts fire non-hitscan projectiles. Which, speed brings me to my next point:

All summons from Lethal Progeny are slow, slow, slow. Conculysts are notorious for never doing anything when not performing their tornado attack because they seem to have to come to a complete stop within one meter of their target to perform their melee attack. Their spin attack, being more common, may solve this issue, but Conculysts are apparently unable to have their damage increased, so they're now even worse than they were to begin with. 1,000 * 10 isn't that much in high-level content, meaning that Lethal Progeny, while Caliban's most interesting ability, may end up being replaced with a Helminth like Roar or Nourish.

Ortholysts sound like my favorite so far, which alarms me because I already know that I won't be using anything other than them. They sound like they'll absolutely dominate the field because they increase the damage of the team despite their meager increase to Status Chance. They fire projectiles with travel time, though, and it's NPC against NPC, so I hope they have homing shots or something.

Summulysts just seem useless but pretty.

Besides allowing Conculyst damage to be increased by Warframe Mods, I also request this: Remove the casting animation from Lethal Progeny, reduce its energy consumption to 1/3rd, and make it spawn only one Sentient ally per cast (so a quick triple-tap just spawns all three of one type). However, it should instead be set so that Caliban is not constrained by only being able to spawn three of each type: Imagine the small warband Caliban could lead around! A simple fix to the Summulyst to make up for this would be to reduce the amount of Choralysts it can have active by 2 for each other Sentient type active: One Conculyst and a Summulyst only spawns four Choralysts, two Ortholysts and a Summulyst only makes two, and just one Summulyst makes all six.

Finally, Caliban's passive is... Not great. Allow it to stack a bit with Adaptation (at the very least, like, 95% or something)! It's worse than a single mod! Maybe make his own Adaptation remember that last two or three damage types he's taken?

+ Edit: Oh, dear. The Conculysts deal absolutely zero damage in the clip shown: They're dealing 1.1k per hit. Their damage doesn't even register on the health bar of the Heavy Gunners they're attacking. What's the point of Lethal Progeny, actually? I'm bummed out.
That should be all. I appreciate the effort put into this rework, nonetheless!

Edited 33 minutes ago by Battalyst
Added stat clarifications.

[sXeth]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Wrong. Let’s break down why Caliban’s passive, Adaptive Armor, is far less useful than Adaptation in both design and practical application.

 

1. Arcane Guardian vs. Armor Synergy: First off, comparing Arcane Guardian to Caliban’s passive doesn’t make sense because Arcane Guardian stacks with all armor sources. It's an additive buff to base armor, which directly scales damage reduction based on Warframe armor stats. When combined with other armor-boosting abilities like Iron Skin, Grendel's passives, or mods like Steel Fiber, it creates exponential value by enhancing base armor.

 

Caliban’s passive, on the other hand, works on a damage-type-specific resistance system, which is a completely different mechanic. While Adaptive Armor does stack with other forms of damage reduction, it does not stack with Adaptation. It doesn’t boost base armor or provide raw damage reduction across all sources, which makes its effectiveness more limited in comparison to Arcane Guardian’s synergy.

 

2. Decay and Proc Mechanics: Adaptive Armor decays by 2% per second after 5 seconds of not taking the specific damage type. It only gains 5% resistance per proc, and it procs on the highest damage type dealt to the player or ally at that moment. This means that if you're taking Impact damage at the max 50% cap, and then you get hit by Toxin damage, your resistance will swap to Toxin, and you won’t benefit from the Impact resistance 5% gain anymore until the damage priority changes via decay.

 

Furthermore, if you are hit by Toxin and it starts dealing a DoT (damage-over-time), your Adaptive Armor will decay by 2% per second, allowing the DoT to deal increasingly more damage. This rapid decay means that as the Toxin DoT progresses, the damage you take will ramp up, as you lose that 2% resistance every second during the DoT.

 

3. Adaptation vs. Adaptive Armor – Uptime Comparison:

Adaptation: Each hit you take gives you a 10% damage reduction against that specific damage type, stacking up to 90% damage reduction over time. Adaptation lasts 20 seconds without any decay, and DoTs like Slash or Toxin refresh this duration per tick. This makes Adaptation incredibly consistent, even when taking status damage from multiple damage types at once. It's rare to drop below 70-90% DR on any significant damage type with Adaptation, even in high-level missions.

 

Adaptive Armor: In a realistic mission scenario, maintaining even 20-30% resistance is difficult because of the fast decay rate and the 5% proc limit. Since it procs only on the highest damage type, other types get no resistance unless they're currently the strongest damage. Additionally, status effects like Toxin will cause Adaptive Armor to decay during their damage-over-time duration, leaving you increasingly vulnerable. This makes Adaptive Armor significantly less effective, especially against multiple damage types.

 

4. Teamwide Passive Doesn’t Help Much: The “teamwide” benefit of Adaptive Armor sounds good, but it’s not practical. For one, the 50% resistance cap for allies is lower, meaning even at max stacks, they don’t get the full benefit. Additionally, most players in Warframe are constantly moving at high speeds, making it difficult to remain in affinity range to receive the benefit consistently. Add to that the fact that Adaptation is always better for individual players, offering up to 90% DR that can stack with all other forms of damage reduction, including Warframe abilities, mods, and arcanes. This makes the teamwide benefit largely irrelevant in practice, as most players would rather run their own defensive mods like Adaptation or Vitality to ensure consistent defense.

 

Let’s Talk Numbers:

Adaptation offers 90% DR after 10 hits from a damage type, and this DR remains active for 20 seconds after taking that damage. In comparison, Adaptive Armor might get you to 50% resistance, but that starts decaying after just 5 seconds, dropping to 0% within 25 seconds without refreshing.

 

With Adaptation, you take only 10% of the damage from the strongest damage type in a mission, while Caliban’s passive leaves you taking 50-70% of the damage on average due to its quick decay and lack of status proc interaction.

 

Let’s assume you’re taking 1,000 points of Impact damage in a high-level mission:

 

Adaptation at 90% DR: You would take only 100 damage.

 

Adaptive Armor at 30% resistance (a common real-world scenario due to decay): You’re still taking 700 damage, making Adaptation 7x more effective.

 

Even if you managed to maintain Caliban’s passive at 50% resistance for a brief window, you’d still be taking 500 damage, 5x more than you would with Adaptation. The math speaks for itself.

 

Conclusion:

Adaptive Armor is simply inferior to Adaptation in both uptime and effectiveness. It’s clunky to manage, decays too fast to provide reliable defense, and doesn’t protect against status procs. The synergy between Adaptation and other damage reduction tools (like Arcane Guardian, Warframe abilities, and armor mods) makes it a clear winner in nearly every situation.

 

For Caliban’s passive to be useful, it needs to shift away from competing with Adaptation for raw damage reduction and instead offer something unique, like status resistance or immunity. Without a rework, Adaptive Armor is a cosmetic addition, offering little real-world benefit to Caliban or his allies.

Never did compare Arcane Guardian to Calibans passive so idk where you got that from. Also thats not what exponential means,  but that’s all a side tangent. If you’d rather stick to mods then yeah Excaliburs passive is unsurprisingly weaker then Primed Pressure Point. Equinox is weaker then Equilibrium. I’d have to double check on  Mirage vs whatever the relevant parkour speed mod is. Ash is only slightly over 20% of a Elementalist mod (and only for Slash). Saryn is 1/4 of a status duration mod. 

Anyhow, counterpoint.

Its a passive, Adaptation is an entire mod slot and kind of a pricey one at 12 capacity. Adaptation is probably more generally better (although Caliban notably does big area CC with his 2 and one of the summons is specifically getting a taunt/decoy upgrade, so you should be receiving very little damage coming in of any kind. But you’re comparing a 0 investment freebie with a 12 capacity mod slot.

It is quite simply not meant to compete with Adaptation. It fills in a nice minor boost to survivability for anyone not running Adaptation (to which there are many reasons you might not, mod space being the obvious front runner).

Edited 20 minutes ago by sXeth

[sXeth]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

Because overall, it's been buffed. Before, targets that were immune to the pull or simply don't enter the field, which can be difficult to see, made it less effective.

 

To compensate, you now fire up to four Fusion Strikes at once(with your Conculysts), similar to Nidus's first and third ability combo. This allows you to hit multiple targets within 30 meters of you or your Conculysts in an arc, pincering enemies in the targeted direction. Additionally, the damage scales exponentially with each enemy, as they now explode with a 10-meter radius around them, dealing Tau damage.

The field is 30m wide (at base) and goes through walls. If the enemy isn’t in it when the laser finishes then someone is forcibly pulling them away.. As far as “not entering it” that would simply be down to strategic placement.

 Hitting with the lasers for the strip is a complete downgrade. Immediately having issues with vertical hitboxes. They also don’t hit enemies behind each other (you can hop in simulacrum and test, back enemies will still have full health currently while every enemy in the simulacrum spawn gets stripped). The summons are effectively a non contributor as you have to switch to that specific enemy (with additional energy costs on an already demanding frame) and rely on uncontrolled AI positioning (Do I even need to go there?)

Speaking of energy economy, even if you should manage to actually hit all your targets with defence strip, you now have to recast your ultimate on every new wave, whereas (duration being variable) you would likely get 2-4 waves stripped per cast. 
 

As damage goes, levels will matter, but its easy math to figure out stripping 90% armor DR wipes more eHP dealing x3 damage.