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EvilKam
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Warning:  This post is over 9000 characters long.  HA!  I never get tired of that joke.  Anyways, here are a list of problems, and my solutions to them, and other people's solutions as well.  I'll have to read Phil's thread completely, I only just saw it the other day, but with 680 upvotes, that's an impressive count.

 

Regardless, These are my contributions to making the game better, as well as epic suggestions from others with credit given to their names.

 

Hey, does anyone know why my spoiler tags are not working correctly?  On my screen, a few of them are not condensing correctly, and I haven't a clue why.

 

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/134890-core-issues-still-unfixed-by-damage-20/?hl=mj12#entry1616875'> Also:  Mad Props to MJ12 for this post.  It's well written, not too sarcastic, and brings up important issues and solutions.

 

Problem #1:  Ye Gods the Grind!

If you buy a new piece of gear, you have to start at Mercury, and murder level 1 mooks slowly, until your new item is geared up enough for some mods, allowing you to grind on 5th level mooks, so that you can equip slightly better mods, so that you can move up to grinding on level 9 mooks, to get the affinity you need to equip the mods you wanted to use in the first place.
 
Solution:  The Affinity Tank:  
 
The original idea came from other posters, HydrostaticShock and Thelonious are the ones I can name off hand.  Essentially, all affinity after rank 30 goes into an overflow "tank" from which you can spend on gear to maximize it as well.  
 
I believe there should be a penalty to this process though.  So let's just say that you only get to keep 10% of that overflow affinity.
 
Stated Criticism:  
This means no-one will ever use their new gear UNTIL it's levelled up, and now you'll just max out all your gear instantly
 
Response:
We don't use new gear much anyways.  We PUG on some survival mission with other high DPS characters and soak up all the group xp, because if you kill 20 guys and gain 2000 affinity, I get 500 affinity to everything and vice versa, so that Lex pistol that I just bought?  I never have to fire a single bullet until my rank 9 gunslinger fits.  (Believe me, Lex freaking sucks without that rank 9 gunslinger, and even then, I hate how slow it is)
 
Final Implementation:
Okay, if we want to ensure that you ARE using your gear in a level, we break up affinity progress bar into 2 chunks.  The first chunk covers 20% of the affinity gain, and can ONLY be filled from missions.  After it is filled, the rest pours into the second chunk.  The second chunk of the bar can be filled from both affinity within missions, AND from your overflow tank.  You can now speed up the leveling time a HUGE margin, without having to kill 15 waves of fodder.
 
I don't believe that grinding is not inherently bad as long as it's controlled.  This allows the grind to be controlled.  Grinding to grind is not fun.  Grinding to achieve power can be rewarding, but the balance has to be worth it.

 
TLDR:  10% of your overflow affinity goes into a tank or pool, and you spend from this to max your gear.  80% of the cost can be paid from your pool, the remaining 20% must come from a mission.
 
Problem #2:  Mod Lock

If you don't care about who is in your group, this may not apply.  Say you are playing with a group of friends who are casual, and you want to work through the levels AS a group of friends, 3 of you today, 2 tomorrow and Thursday, but Saturday evening all 4 of you can join...
 
Starting out as a group of new players is a savage, brutal grind.  You can't unload DPS without epic mods, catalysts, and reactors.  You will probably never see those mods until you see later missions.  You can't get to the later missions without those key mods.
Mods included here are Serration, Redirection for your frame, Vitality, although that seems to be raining down on my like a torrential downpour, had 27 of the worthless things.
 
I'm drawing a comparison to Borderlands.  Here the game is continually scaling your gear with the enemies you encounter.  At no time are you grossly underpowered, unless you are holding on to something outdated for a specialized purpose.  (Anyone else running a level 40 character with a level 16 LAW pistol because of that sick melee bonus?)
 
What we need is a way to ensure that mods scale to fit available tiers of power, as you see more powerful enemies, more powerful mods drop in front of you.  It starts of as a tough challenge, but as you progress and even farm the planets of that tier, you round out your collection, and eventually outgrow that planet.  It is time to move on to bigger threats and more powerful planets, which will offer better mods.
 
Solution:
Mods are currently tied to enemy types.  This is wrong.  Mods SHOULD be tied to PLANETS.  Serration, Vitality, and Redirection should all be on Venus, because I promise that without them, Earth will devour your freaking soul, if they are delayed until Earth, then they need to be something that people will actually see before the two roadblock missions of Lua and Lith.
 
Mods need to be divided into low tier, mid tier, high tier, and possibly an Epic Tier.  Epic Tier mods are the kinds of wonderful things seen as rewards from Void missions and Nightmare missions.  Shred, Aura Mods, others.  I can't comment too much, as I'm not an End-Game player.

 
TLDR:  Disassociate mods from enemy types.  Associate mods with planets.  Low tier planets offer basic mods that players need.  High Tier planets offer more epic mods to fit the enhanced strength of the enemies.
 
Problem 3:  The loot tables are diluted.
 

This excellent solution is short, from OblivionNecroNinja.  
 
Running a T3 defense mission and you get Slash Dash for Excalibur?  Why is this in the loot table?  Warframe abilities should be put on the market place, available for credits.  Warframe abilities NEED to be available, so that you can play with different power costs and experiment with builds.  Put them on the market, remove them from the loot tables, and quit handing me another freaking Ultimate power for Saryn.  That stupid grineer lady was supposed to drop a Serration.  Instead, I get a Freaking Bullet Attractor?  TWO of them, and sold both!  I HAD TWO!  Not one serration!  #ragequit

 
Problem 4:  
Epic gear players complain that the game is too easy, or that it takes too long to get to the good enemies in a defense mission.
I really wish this was my problem.  Okay the dev's already know my ideas on this, but for completeness:
 

Solution 1:
Add some more levels.  Epic Survival missions with mission nodes that branch further off of the main map.  For example, you could have Appolodorus Alpha, which starts of using enemies 8 levels higher than normal.  Appolodorus Beta, with enemies starting 16 levels higher than normal.  Appolodorus Chi, enemies are 24 levels higher than normal.  We probably wouldn't actually use Appolodorus for this, just using it as an example.
 
Solution 2:
Branch off of existing defense missions in the same way as solution one.  Each node branch will have the effect of skipping 5 waves, or 8 waves, or 12 waves, whatever that happy balance turns out to be.  Now those highly equipped pros can get right to their favorite sweet spot, without having to fight through 30 minutes of cannon fodder just to get to the fun fights
 
Solution 3:
Manic missions.  Here the respawn rates are ramped up.  Enemies will come faster, and in larger groups.  Double speed, or double group size, or both.  Maybe even triple.  This could be implemented the same way that nightmare missions work.

 
Problem 5
Navigation is a pain.  
 

The nav points are sometimes unclear on where you need to ACTUALLY go.  Pros know how to wall climb to get to the destination quickly, if they just knew what door to track down.  New players find themselves running in circles as the nav icon bounces around whenever you get close to it... I know I did.
 
Answer.  Let's just rip off other games, Halo, Crysis, Skyrim, and drop a floating nav point on your hud.  If you're facing the correct door, the nav point is center screen.  If it's distracting, operating the gear menu will also toggle the nav point.

 
Problem 6:  Oi, these menus!
 

The UI lacks consistency.  Exiting the foundry requires you to click at the lower right.  Exiting Arsenal requires you to click at lower left.  Exiting the market is done in the upper right.  Also, while I'm at it, the voting status block covers the names of the market categories, at least at 720p resoluion.
 
Solution:
Drop the market screen down in height 20 pixels.  This clears up the overflow of information.  Next, pick a corner for the "exit this menu" button, and STICK with it.  It turns out that Esc works, but I hadn't thought to try it, and the game certainly never tells you...  Add a popup too?

 
Problem 7:  No Flexibility in frame builds

Essentially, everyone who is lucky enough to find them runs Vitality and Redirection on every warframe.  I had one redirection until 2 days ago, when I passed 80 hours.  Many people run at least one efficiency booster, I think a lot of us choose two.  
 
So, out of our 10 slots, 4 go to powers, leaving 6 to actually use, and 3 of those 6 MUST be Vitality, Redirection, and some sort of power use booster.  As a result, we only get to choose 3 mods for our warframes.  Azamagon had the wonderful idea of making powers be their own separate row, freeing up 4 USABLE spaces for us.  I say his first, simplest idea is the absolute best, and should just be implemented.
 
I'd LIKE to see one power slot activated at Affinity 1, and the extra power slots activate at Affinity 5, 10, and 15, making it FEEL like you are ACTUALLY leveling up as you play, and reaching 15 Affinity is very very easy, even in solo play.

 
Problem 8:  The solo game cannot compete with Multiplayer rewards.  OR... You try multiplayer with a 1700 ping time!
 

 Tried running Apollodorus last night with a friend.  It was really hard for me to keep up with him.  Enemies constantly teleporting around the map due to my lag, it is very very hard to target an enemy who isn't really there.  Plus, he's a member of the master race.  At any rate, the ability to face different directions meant we could stay in a room and slaughter mooks, collecting a constant stream of oxygen, and we survived twice as long as I can solo it.  Whenever I try to solo, I can't seem to find enough enemies to feed myself with O2 drops.  If I had internet that didn't suck... wow.  Got a pistol ammo mutation before extracting.  First ever.

 
If I stick close to him, and it's hard, he loves running off to melee shred guys like crazy, and he's very good at maneuvering, far better than I'll ever be, and he disappears off of my map all the time, I can soak up affinity from his kills and vice versa, meaning I can use my frame powers and awesomely modded Braton to actually HELP a clan member, and vice versa.  yeah, like I'm REALLY going to pull out that Rank 20 Vasto!  Why, so I can watch more reload animations, and get stabbed more?
 
Solution:
I've given this a lot of thought... and I don't have a great solution.  I wanted to decrease the enemy spawn rates for solo play, but that will kill you in a survival.  But something has to compensate for the solo disadvantages.  The best thing I can think of is a 2-prong solution.
 
First, double the rewards for solo play.  Double credit drop value, mod drop rates, and oxygen drops.  Affinity bonuses should be, time and a half maybe?  The affinity tank idea would help mitigate that however.
 
Next, when you click on a mission, you have multiple options for respawn rates, and it will be arranged much like you can select the option to run a mission in normal mode or Nightmare mode.
 
Choice A, for 1  player, time between respawns multiplied by 4  Titled "Slow 4x"
Choice B, for 2 players, time between respawns multiplied by 3 Titled "Slow 3x"
Choice C, for 3 players, time between respawns multiplied by 2 Titled "Slow 2x"
Choice D, for 4 players, time between respawns is normal, titled "Normal Respawns.
Choice E, for a challenge, time between respawns are 80% normal , and enemies come in larger groups, 20% more enemies?
Choice F, for a bigger challenge, time between respawns is 50% of normal, and 1.5x the enemies
Choice G, Epic challenges.  Respawns happen in only 20% of the normal time, and double the number of enemies.
 
 If you are solo, you can click on all of the choices.
2 players can pick B through G.
3 Players can pick C through G
4 Players can pick D through G.
 
We got something like 19 mods from that Apollodorus run, something that I have NEVER come close to seeing ever before, and it's virtually impossible for me to accomplish in solo play.  Well, I'll play with tactics and see, but, the game scales poorly to solo mode.

 
Problem 9:  Login Rewards?  More like Login TAUNTS

 Kyria had an epic idea on how to make login rewards more worth it.  Quoting my favorites:

*Free Rush Job in Foundry.  Note: Tell me that wouldn't be epic.
*3 hour affinity boosts
*Fusion Cores.  Note:  HECK YES! WHO DOESN'T NEED FUSION CORES?  Tell me you wouldn't love to login and see a rare fusion.
 
I'd also like to see:
Extra Revives
Health Boosters
A Free Transmute:  Let's face it, they are monstrous credit sinks.  And you NEVER have enough credits until you are at end game, farming for reactors, catalysts, and forma.

 
Problem 10:  Mods are not optional, even critical ones.

 Why do we need Serration?  Our guns are essentially very weak.  No mod should be a requirement, yet they are.  We need to be able to boost our warframe's power, and our weapons' power.  So, I say that for every affinity rank, up to 30, we gain upgrade points.

 
Resetting a weapon's rank by polarizing a slot neither negates upgrade points spent, nor allows you to acquire more, strictly a one-time thing.
 
One upgrade point can increase any of the base 3 damage stats to the next integer., increase mag size by 5%, fire rate by 3%, increase critical chance by 0.5%, or critical damage increased by 0.025x.
Instead of using forma to polarize a mod slot, we can also use a forma to add a single upgrade point to our upgrade total.
 
If needed, hard limits can be placed on the maximum power attainable through upgrade points, once any base damage stat reaches maybe 35 damage, you can upgrade it no further, and if the weapon by default has a base higher than 35 for one of those stats, you can only improve them by 5 or 10 more.  Sorry Brakk, you may only be pushed so far.

 
Problem 11:  You're drunk, Lotus

 Lotus spits out these random announcements.  There is little logic to them.

"Stay out of fire".  Really Lotus?  Are you going to tell us to chew our vegetables too?

"Beware of Ice, your shields..."  Yeah.  Gotcha.  I noticed it ten minutes ago when I started this mission. 

 

Tie her messages to enemy spawns and actual events.  Make sure that the environment messages are capped at one announcement, immediately after landing, and if applicable, after mandadory assasination/rescue briefs.  If another enemy group spawns, THEN, and ONLY THEN, play the cool audio of Rebecca telling us about the incoming forces.

 
This thread welcomes comments, criticism, and perspective from others.
I will continually update content in this post as I find more epic ideas on the forums, and of course, when I think of my own great ideas.
Edited by EvilKam
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Good Point Archistopheles.

 

Blanket Announcement:  If you have an improvement to an idea posted here, and I think it's good, I will very gladly tell everyone about your awesome new idea.

 

I just hate knowing that no matter what I do, at least half of my xp are completely wasted.  If the chips are down, and I have to use my Braton, ALL my xp are wasted.
 

Edit:

Begrudgingly?  Alright.  I'll rise to that challenge.  What are your reservations or dislikes about the idea?  Maybe I can solve those as well, and with feedback from players like yourself, cooperatively "invent" that better solution.

Edited by EvilKam
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Some feedback:

 

#1 - That sounds like a REALLY good idea, no matter how it is implemented. This tank could maybe have a quite high mastery rank requirement, so you at least have to work for your first few stuff. After that, yeah, the grinding gets dull and thus the tank would be awesome.

#2 - I dunno about this. The essense is good, but I dunno if that is the best way to fix it. So, yes, higher levels should have better rewards. But it could be done in different ways, such as the first time you complete a node, you get X mod. Higher level nodes = Better mods. *shrugs* Something would be nice at least

#3 - Oh, that would be a FANTASTIC change! I'm 100% in for removing all ability mods from enemies and adding them as purchasable items in the market for credits!

#4 - Heh, I wish I had that problem too. Another way to add those more difficult versions of the nodes could be that when you unlock nodes, that you can then play them in increasing difficulties/waves/manic modes (chosen when you select the node). So no need to expand the map or anything. But alas a nice basic idea for those superhardcore players :)

#5 - Eh, I dunno, they are only slightly confusing at first, then you start to "understand" how it operates (well... most of the time >_>). It just needs some cleaning up, that's all (imo).

#6 - Yeah the UI still needs to be cleared up a lot. I heard they got a new guy who was gonna clean up their UI a lot, so let's cross our fingers that the UI guy is thorough :)

#7 - Woo! That's me :D Well, I'm glad you liked my suggestion for this, even though you preferred the "fast and simple" version more :P I'd prefer the advanced one more, but yeah, even the simpler one would be a great step in the right direction.

#8 - Hmmm I can't really say much about this since I solo 99.9% of the time and I've done just fine doing so. Yeah I know multiplayer gives better rewards for less effort, but I guess I've just gotten used to the higher amounts of difficulties and lower rates of rewards :P If the rewards would be increased for solo players somehow, I sure wouldn't complain though! :D

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Regarding affinity... How about overflow affinity is not stored, but instead is immediately consumed at a 10% efficiency rate. No weapon with a saved *mastery* of at least 15 can accept overflow affinity (no using overflow for forma).

 

I love the idea of buying ability mods for credits, but I feel like players should outright just be given the basic mods at the beginning as part of the tutorial to teach them how to equip critical things like Redirection or Vitality.

 

Difficulty issues can't be solved by ramping up enemy numbers.  That'll just increase reliance on pressing 4 and the Ogris.  We don't need that.

Edited by Volt_Cruelerz
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Hey a REPLY!  And here I thought this post was doomed to languish in obscurity despite me mentioning it.

 

Incoming word walls, spoiler tagged to at least KIND of limit the drudgery of reading it all.

 

Affinity Tank:

My warframe hit Affinity 30 before my MK1 Braton hit 30, I was still Mastery 2.  The frame was the first thing I maxxed out, and at that moment, I felt this tragic sinking sensation.  This essentially meant that I would be operating under a 50% experience penalty for a very long time to come.  So, I would imagine that other players get the same kind of experience.

 

That was... 45 hours of gameplay ago?  That's what's happening right now, we are being penalized for having max affinity gear, which happens VERY early.  The Affinity tank alleviates that penalty, and it has to hit before Mastery 3. It becomes needed very soon, unless we just want to pad out the gameplay with more pointless grinding.

 

I have... Vasto and Lex, and ye gods, the Lex is... I don't want to grind it.  It's too time consuming.  The Vasto is also time consuming, but at LEAST it has a reload rate and a firing speed, so it's less drudgery.  My Braton is fairly epic.  Not mind-wrenchingly epic, but it clears up to level 17ish enemies without too much hassle.  Nightmare easts me for lunch, 10 pt. serration, shred, and split chamber, catalyst, STILL TAKES AN ENTIRE CLIP TO KILL A NIGHTMARE CORPUS ON VENUS.  IT'S LIKE STARTING OVER.

 

You think I'm going to pull out my freaking SIDEARM?  Not on your LIFE.  I'm slaughtered using a Braton that shoots through DOORS.  Jupiter smacks me in the face every time I try to make it through that defense level... ugh... just can't face all the enemies on wave 5, too many directions to shoot, even though it only takes a few bullets to kill them, I can only engage one direction at a time...

 

Basically, I have a choice, bring my only good gun and gain nothing except a handfull of credits and a couple of mods, or bring my crappy guns and die, gaining no credits, no mods, and fostering a general sense of failure as a human being.

 

I don't mind the fact that a grind exists.  I can deal with repetition, as long as the rewards feel worth it.  As it stands, I bum-rush M.Prime, because it's fast and easy, and there's no real point in trying something higher level if I can just race and collect my 1k.  If the Affinity tank existed, I'd at least CONSIDER farming other levels for mods and credits both.

TLDR:  There is no spoon.

 

Mods:

My suggestion may not be perfect, but man, you can't solo through Earth without redirection and serration.  Well, okay, maybe YOU can do it, but I can not.  I'm running through Mars, Saturn, and well, hit a stopping point again in Jupiter, but... I haven't seen a serration drop ONCE in gameplay.  I have TWO, and only thanks to the trading system.  100 hours, and TWO Redirections drop for my frame.  I've seen easily a DOZEN for my SENTINEL, except I don't HAVE a Sentinel, so WHO CARES?

 

Serration USED to drop potentially as early as Mercury if you could survive Apollodorus, otherwise they could be found in Venus.  With the level rebalance, Scorpions no longer appear until Mars.  I NEEDED A SERRATION BEFORE I GOT TO EARTH. (deep breath Cameron, deep breath, it's okay)

 

Maybe activate a special alert mission on Terminus when you reach Tolstoj, to trigger a mission with the specific reward.  I don't know, that just feels like it cheapens the thrill of finding one.  I want it to be available, but not feel spoon fed.

TLDR:  In multiplayer, Unless I'm playing a character named Grimlock, not allowed to start every sentence with the phrase "Me Grimlock..."

 

Navigation:

I spent 20 minutes yesterday on a Grineer Map staring at a wall, running around, looking for something to climb on, randomly going up and down stairs, wondering what the hell I was supposed to do, because according to the map, I was supposed to go through this wall.  Lies.  I had to go through a door probably 50 meters to the left of the wall to get to a hallway that doesn't appear on the map, even when you are IN the hallway, you're just sort of in an empty spot between 2 map segments that CLEARLY DO NOT CONNECT AT ALL BECAUSE THE MAP SHOWS THAT THERE IS NO CONNECTION THERE, and then the nav point teleported suddenly in front of me.

Inside my brain goes "I NEED CREDITS YOU SPHINCTERHATS!  YOU ARE SLOWING DOWN MY CREDIT FLOW.  I KNEW I SHOULD HAVE DONE M. PRIME AGAIN"

 

Also, I NEED TO FOLLOW THE MAP.  THAT'S HOW NAVIGATION WORKS.  YOU NAVIGATE WITH A MAP.  IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR DESTINATION YOU WILL PROBABLY NEVER FIND IT.  I am not Moses in the desert, and I do not have 40 years to find a door.  Your missing hallways are not helping.  (deep breath Cameron, deep breath)  Okay, okay, I'm fine now.  

TLDR:  It's an infinite number of monkeys.

 

Power Slots:

I gave your system a lot of thought, and ultimately, I think it takes away choice, having separate pools of points that don't interlock.  I WILL gladly install a weaker version of, or leave out completely, a power on my warframe if some great general mod eclipses my use for that Power.  Radial Javelin?  I never use it, Yeah I know, it's all SUPER EPIC when it's maxxed out.  Fine, in a few months when I have a rampaging crapton of both money and cores, I'll look at it.  It's on the to do list, right after "organize sock drawer".  Super Jump?  WHY GOD WHY?  So, FREE MOD POINTS!.  

Your simpler system would still allow me to undertweak anything I want, in exchange for "overfueling" other mods, OR, I can Max out ALL my class mods if my frame mods feel unnecessary (a theoretical possibility) maybe in the world of "I have forma to burn baby!"

 

If you gain enough ability points through levelling... well, okay, I guess that's not a bad way to do it either.  My instinct was to say "wait, I can underlevel my powers and gain more mod points for other things, but then, those powers won't consume normal mod points at all, so you'd still have your 30 at 30... Okay, That works as well.  I still like the idea that all other mods will come out of the same normal pool, as we're freeing up 4 mod slots.  Adding even more slots again after that will probably just overpower the high end frames.  

 

But, then I guess we should tweak high end enemies for them.  It makes sense from a design perspective to focus on the low end first, and then just dial the final planet enemies to taste from that point, but, don't want to anger the pros.

 

Hmmm, maybe I'm ready to sign on to your more complex idea, but, not quite yet.  I think opening up the 4 power slots should be tested first, then we can adjust to taste

TLDR:  Yes, it's 42, but no-one actually knows what the QUESTION is.

 

 

Balancing solo: No Spoiler here, it's short

Getting a gift of mods has helped my solo woes a lot... and I was happy with it finally, too.  Well, until last night when I looked at that epic, mind blowing screen full of loot, and mod after mod after mod... I accomplished in a half hour in Apollodorus, more than I probably would have doing 2 hours of solo anything, PLUS I gained affinity for my OTHER gear, my shiny new Zoren axes and my Vasto.  Heck, I even USED MY POWERS, other than Blind. [/notaspoiler]

 

Edit:  EvilKam TLDR Summaries.  Worth every penny you paid for them.

Edited by EvilKam
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  • 1 month later...

Something you might look at: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/66119-harmony-skill-based-rewards-for-high-level-frames/?hl=affinity

 

Silly idea for implementation of higher-end junk: high-level survival/defense would have a chance of rewarding a BP to craft a gear item that increases the base level of enemies (or whatever it ends up being). To avoid trolling, the lowest level additive present would take precedence. To allow people to play on the level additive they wish, the symbol for a person's level choice might have a number showing what they want to add to the base level, and others could click it to assent to the level jump. Of course, these items would be reusable. I'm gonna say it would be best if alerts weren't affected by these items. (Also, for great silliness, allow REALLY high level survival/defense to grant negative level increasers, so you can fight level 1 Ambulas for great lolz.)

 

As far as your mod-related discourse: my position is that gear itself should level its stats, and mods should be customization rather than essential (Try playing a half-hour of survival without any base damage mods on any party members' weapons, then tell me they aren't essential. And Pentas don't count. :P). This means my rank 30 Soma is almost as good as your Rank 30 Soma, since your increased Forma use really just allows for more customization. This means low- and high- end players are closer in power-level, and can cooperate more meaningfully.

Basically, the idea is that all mods should be only marginally useful, or have drawbacks. Maybe Serration would only add recoil instead of going the way of Heavy Caliber (or something like decreased RoF), but there should not be a mod that significantly increases the usefulness of a weapon in ANY situation. The only drawback to Serration currently is that you can't brag about having done X or Y without it.

 

 

Anyways, that's my disorganized and late two cents.

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  • 3 months later...

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