Penta Ammo Capacity

[fatpig84]

No it wouldn't, because the problems with the Torid has nothing to do with ammo.

 

Which DE will NOT fix.

 

100% proc rate cannot be given to Torid because people will just stack blast and knock everything down.

But without it's innate gas proc, Torid as a whole is useless.

 

And DE knows it.  So they left it to rot and spend time to adjust other weapons and Damage 2.0 values.

 

At least now I can still get a chuckle for using my multi forma Torid as a direct fire weapon. 

Don't remove my enjoyment.

Edited December 15, 2013 by fatpig84

[Seanjuju]

Another torid user in your thread. Bad luck Brimir.

 

Whatever changes you have in mind for Ogris would have to be different from the torid.

[Brimir]

Well, ideally DE ought to find a way to fix the Torid.

 

Ideally.

[ObviousLee]

as i said before: give the torid and penta their own ammo pool, and give the ogris its own ammo pool, AS WELL AS THE MITER.

 

i firmly believe each weapon should have a specialized ammo pool. its not hard. in this way adjusting the ammo pool OF ONE WEAPON WILL NOT EFFECT ANOTHER.

[Brimir]

You mean like unique ammo pickup/category per weapon? I dunno.. seems like a lot of work.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Stop comparing weapons that NEED mutation to keep shooting, to weapon that has free infinite ammo. Makes no sense at all.

So you want your ammo to remain 540, because you lost to soma in fast paced assault mission? And then you say its me being butthurt.. right.

I cannot snipe with gorgon, because its not ment to snipe. Grenade launchers arent made to be used evrywhere, these are situational weapons, and should be used like ones. Rifles and machine guns are made to assault, so they outperform you there.

You wanna use grenade launcher in exterm? Sure go for it. But its not an efficient way to use it. Too slow, and like you said, enemies are scattered around in there. 

I never asked for this weapon to be made useless, or not fun to use. I just want it to stop having POINTLESSLY HUGE AMMO CAPACITY. You should never be able to just go carelessly shooting around. Doing that should make you out of ammo. QUICKLY.

You want numbers? I dont know, it would need to be tested, so you HAVE to care for ammo, but you dont run out of ammo too quick.

 

 

Somehow we don't achieve anything. I try to make it more clear:

 

1. I didn't "lost" to soma because of ammunition. Your context is completely wrong about that. If you think about it: "Infinite" ammo by your definition couldn't be reason for that. It was because Soma hit all the targets because Pentas projectiles were to slow to reach them in time. After a little thought, Soma might be the primus so maybe it is not comparable.

 

2. You don't seem to understand that it makes no difference if Penta has 540 or just 40 since I never seem to drop below 500. 40 may be the best number because it is possible to run out of ammo but still unlikely. If there is someone who needs more ammo than me, then I'm sorry. Didn't fathom that.

 

3. I brought Synapse up NOT in order to compare it to Penta but to compare it to your Gorgon. Since I used Gorgon and Supra myself for a long time, I know how fast you can run out of ammo. By the time I used them, I didn't have mutation mods. On the other hand I didn't feel to get laughed at by Torid/Ogris.

 

4. Of course 540 ammo capacity is silly. Since we cannot see Tenno carrying ammo at all, then what's the difference? To be honest, like I said before: I really don't care if Penta gets nerved by half or 66% or whatever. You wouldn't see a difference in playstyle at all.

 

5. You really think before shooting with a bow? I do it too with Penta. I always bring my trusted sidearm to the party. The ammo consumption is not the reason though.

Edited December 15, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M

[Seanjuju]

I like this person. They seem to know whats what.

[Brimir]

2. You don't seem to understand that it makes no difference if Penta has 540 or just 40 since I never seem to drop below 500. 40 may be the best number because it is possible to run out of ammo but still unlikely. If there is someone who needs more ammo than me, then I'm sorry. Didn't fathom that.

 

Switch it to Sniper Ammo and bingo. No more 20 grenades all over the place to pick up.

[ObviousLee]

You mean like unique ammo pickup/category per weapon? I dunno.. seems like a lot of work.

i remember growin up being told the right way often isn't the easy way.

 

 

when did the hard right and the easy wrong turn into just the easy?

Edited December 15, 2013 by ObviousLee

[Brimir]

Developers are less prone to implement stuff that takes a lot of work is all I'm sayin'.

[Seanjuju]

I'd argue the sniper ammo pool is broken. No weapon that uses the sniper ammo pool has decent ammo efficiency.

[Brimir]

I'd argue the sniper ammo pool is broken. No weapon that uses the sniper ammo pool has decent ammo efficiency.

 

As I've said, it is because the game has switch them around - weapons that need good ammo efficiency because they are exclusively single-target are put in Sniper Ammo, while weapons that don't need it because they are AoE are put in Rifle Ammo.

[Seanjuju]

The single target weapons will keep one-shotting far beyond the point when ogris stops one-hitting. In late game, ogris would be in the same boat as snipers.  

[Brimir]

But that's an issue of end-game still suffering from silly scaling, not ammo inequality.

[ObviousLee]

But that's an issue of end-game still suffering from silly scaling, not ammo inequality.

regardless of scaling "issues" in endgame content, viable solutions have been made available to those who seek the challenge.

 

@seanjuju: what changes would you offer as a solution as a whole? im not seeing a lot of support for each weapons being broken up by logical ammo pools here.

[Shikazure]

regardless of scaling "issues" in endgame content, viable solutions have been made available to those who seek the challenge.

 

@seanjuju: what changes would you offer as a solution as a whole? im not seeing a lot of support for each weapons being broken up by logical ammo pools here.

there is also alot of support for turning sniper into specialist ammo type and tossing the torrid, ogris and penta in that pool as well 

[ObviousLee]

there is also alot of support for turning sniper into specialist ammo type and tossing the torrid, ogris and penta in that pool as well 

true, but ANY changes made to that pool will effect more weapons than needed.

 

if the torid, and penta are given their own ammo pools, along with generic assault rifles theirs, the miter it's very own because of the uniqueness of the rounds it fires, the embolist, etc, all their very own specific ammo pools, all weapon adjustments then could essentially be standalone changes.

 

and IF there is a 100% reason why certain weapons MUST share certain ammo pools, it limits any changes from an across-the-board-change to small-neighborhood-or-indivisual housing-change.

 

there is no reason to simply move from one ammo pool to another, when it is entirely possible to CREATE new ammo pools that do justice to the weapons we use, instead of a generic "add new random weapon to random pool because yea".

[Shikazure]

true, but ANY changes made to that pool will effect more weapons than needed.

 

if the torid, and penta are given their own ammo pools, along with generic assault rifles theirs, the miter it's very own because of the uniqueness of the rounds it fires, the embolist, etc, all their very own specific ammo pools, all weapon adjustments then could essentially be standalone changes.

 

and IF there is a 100% reason why certain weapons MUST share certain ammo pools, it limits any changes from an across-the-board-change to small-neighborhood-or-indivisual housing-change.

 

there is no reason to simply move from one ammo pool to another, when it is entirely possible to CREATE new ammo pools that do justice to the weapons we use, instead of a generic "add new random weapon to random pool because yea".

may be no reason to but also no reason not to if sniper ammo get changed to a specialist that that means more than just snipers and bows run off of it and this also fixes the infinite ammo for explosive weapons even though you still have a ton of ammo you will be able to realisticly run out in prolonged missions. this maybe a good short term fix but isnt the whole reason this topic exists because the penta and ogris have a infinite ammo efficancy that they can spam all day and never worry about ammo

[ObviousLee]

may be no reason to but also no reason not to if sniper ammo get changed to a specialist that that means more than just snipers and bows run off of it and this also fixes the infinite ammo for explosive weapons even though you still have a ton of ammo you will be able to realisticly run out in prolonged missions. this maybe a good short term fix but isnt the whole reason this topic exists because the penta and ogris have a infinite ammo efficancy that they can spam all day and never worry about ammo

yes. i know that. i've been contributing quite a bit to this thread, so i think i am aware of its nature and purpose.

 

you still aren't seeing the issue at its core. the generic ammo types are insufficient. period. by generalizing ammo pools as seen within warframe, it has lead to the situation at hand: insufficient ammo(bad ammo economy) for some weapons in a particular ammo pool while providing INFINITE AMMO for other weapons, of the same ammo pool.

 

this. is. the. problem.

 

 

creating SPECIALIZED, new ammo pools, is the solution.

 

ogris: rockets 20-40

 

Torid & penta: grenades

 

assault rifles: rifle ammo

 

smg's: smg ammo

 

Sniper rifles: sniper ammo

 

Bows: Arrows

 

miter: saw blades

 

synapse: biochem rounds

 

embolist: infested sacks

 

assorted shotguns+brakk, bronco series: shotgun shells

 

Flux rifle: plasma rod(supplemental energy based fuel cell here)

 

Dera: Ion rod

 

Supra: ion rod.

 

you see? the only tru time consuming thing, would be the texture mapping for the new icons nedded for the new ammo drops, and implementing them efficiently into the loot tables without mucking them up more so, and i believe someone mentioned a solution to that issue in an earlier post.

 

this is not hard work guys. we as a player base should(note i do not say must, for i command no one) as a whole take a stance that the easy way, is not the right way. if Digital Extremes wishes to make a game worthy of a massive fanbase and following, then they need to converse with the player base more, respond with feedback TO the feedback, and start making smarter decisions regarding choices they make in regards to sensible choices.

[ValhaHazred]

As someone who really, really likes the Penta, it's high ammo count does seem pretty silly. I still think it, Ogris and maybe Torid should use shotgun ammo.

It's a much lower cap, but the pickups occur a bit more. The only issue is that that might disqualify them from rifle mods. I'm not really sure how that works.

Edited December 15, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[ObviousLee]

As someone who really, really likes the Penta, it's high ammo count does seem pretty silly. I still think it, Ogris and maybe Torid should use shotgun ammo.

It's a much lower cap, but the pickups occur a bit more. The only issue is that that might disqualify them from rifle mods. I'm not really sure how that works.

....shotgun ammo.............you for real?

[Shikazure]

yes. i know that. i've been contributing quite a bit to this thread, so i think i am aware of its nature and purpose.

 

you still aren't seeing the issue at its core. the generic ammo types are insufficient. period. by generalizing ammo pools as seen within warframe, it has lead to the situation at hand: insufficient ammo(bad ammo economy) for some weapons in a particular ammo pool while providing INFINITE AMMO for other weapons, of the same ammo pool.

 

this. is. the. problem.

 

 

creating SPECIALIZED, new ammo pools, is the solution.

 

ogris: rockets 20-40

 

Torid & penta: grenades

 

assault rifles: rifle ammo

 

smg's: smg ammo

 

Sniper rifles: sniper ammo

 

Bows: Arrows

 

miter: saw blades

 

synapse: biochem rounds

 

embolist: infested sacks

 

assorted shotguns+brakk, bronco series: shotgun shells

 

Flux rifle: plasma rod(supplemental energy based fuel cell here)

 

Dera: Ion rod

 

Supra: ion rod.

 

you see? the only tru time consuming thing, would be the texture mapping for the new icons nedded for the new ammo drops, and implementing them efficiently into the loot tables without mucking them up more so, and i believe someone mentioned a solution to that issue in an earlier post.

 

this is not hard work guys. we as a player base should(note i do not say must, for i command no one) as a whole take a stance that the easy way, is not the right way. if Digital Extremes wishes to make a game worthy of a massive fanbase and following, then they need to converse with the player base more, respond with feedback TO the feedback, and start making smarter decisions regarding choices they make in regards to sensible choices.

that would not work that would just dilute ammo type drops just means less ammo you can actually pick up so if you run out of ammo you wont be getting a full mag worth of ammo anytime soon.

 

this is the exact problem in the voids too much loot being added but no new missions. making the loot tables more diluted the chance of getting what you need becomes less as you add more

Edited December 15, 2013 by Shikazure

[ObviousLee]

that would not work that would just dilute ammo type drops just means less ammo you can actually pick up so if you run out of ammo you wont be getting a full mag worth of ammo anytime soon.

 

this is the exact problem in the voids too much loot being added but no new missions. making the loot tables more diluted the chance of getting what you need becomes less as you add more

you seem to think that these ammo types would be simply additions. they are replacements. and if a synchronic protocol can be matched weapon to weapon, the ONLY ammo you would be picking up is the ammo for the weapon you are USING, as someone mentioned previously in this thread.

[Shikazure]

you seem to think that these ammo types would be simply additions. they are replacements. and if a synchronic protocol can be matched weapon to weapon, the ONLY ammo you would be picking up is the ammo for the weapon you are USING, as someone mentioned previously in this thread.

seems like too much uneeded effort

[ObviousLee]

seems like too much uneeded effort

again, laziness doesn't change anything.

 

you may not be prepared to commit to a challenge, but that doesn't mean the rest of us are.

Edited December 15, 2013 by ObviousLee