Maps Are Confusing And Too Easy To Get Lost In

[TheRedCrumpet]

I've been playing Warframe for a few days now, along with a couple of friends and missions often grind to a halt because there is no hint of where to go next. Often its a missed orange door or a small vent that you can't do much more to make stand out, but its an issue I think needs addressing before it drives too many people away.

I would suggest 3 things but I'm not sure which would work best.

1 : Something on the HUD to tell you what direction to head in. If it was always there it would suck, but maybe if you've made no progress for 5 minutes it'll pop up for 10 seconds and the support lady would tell you to head that way.

The problem is this would annoy some people who wanted to explore for loot.

2 : Enemies don't spawn in cleared areas. That way you could use enemies as bread crumb trails, but this could make back tracking bland and wouldn't work in every mission. Also if you missed an elevator you wouldn't have a trail.

3 : Make the mini map useful. Instead of being in the corner and completely unreadable, make it so you can full screen it with some kind of system recording your movement for the last minute or two. It doesn't tell you exactly where to go but you can see where you've been and figure it out from there. As it is the mini map is just confusing and doesn't tell you anything useful.

I think 3 is the proper solution but I would like to see some suggestions.

[Notso]

Dude, how could you possibly get lost on such linear maps?

*confounded

[zikkim]

Dude, how could you possibly get lost on such linear maps?

*confounded

+1

[Gamerboy1420]

Dude, how could you possibly get lost on such linear maps?

*confounded

+2

[Renathy]

How can you get lose AND with a mini-map.

It's perfect readable and understandable.

Edit: Oh, yeah. He only joined yesterday.

No wonder.

Edited March 14, 2013 by JRMC

[Pave]

Oh, it's certain there's going to be a map feature eventually.

But, getting lost in the current state certainly makes me rather interest in too.

Sure, the asteroid/Grineer-mining areas can be a bit tricky until start practicing the "basic rule of exploration in video games" (search everything from everywhere, and when needed hit it to find it).

Vents are "easily" noticed with stucked fans (I.E. Hit/Shoot them to possibly unlock new secret areas/progress). And exploration is a must thing in this game if you want to get the best paycheck from missions (I.E. Go anywhere else than the mission/objective marker first to get extra exp & loot, unless you're in a timed or defence mission).

So yeah, exploration is the key. You'll just "unfortunately" have to learn this valuable talent. Fortunately this far from the "pixel"-accurate or downright convoluded "lucky", non-obvious exploration issue (I'm looking at you Metroid and various point-and-click and other adventure-games).

Edited March 14, 2013 by Pave

[Maeka]

Dude, how could you possibly get lost on such linear maps?

*confounded

Yeah...the mini map is pretty clear and there's a big yellow icon pointing you the way you need to go. Not sure how it's confusing.

[TheRedCrumpet]

Oh, it's certain there's going to be a map feature eventually.

But, getting lost in the current state certainly makes me rather interest in too.

Sure, the asteroid/Grineer-mining areas can be a bit tricky until start practicing the "basic rule of exploration in video games" (search everything from everywhere, and when needed hit it to find it).

Vents are "easily" noticed with stucked fans (I.E. Hit/Shoot them to possibly unlock new secret areas/progress). And exploration is a must thing in this game if you want to get the best paycheck from missions (I.E. Go anywhere else than the mission/objective marker first to get extra exp & loot, unless you're in a timed or defence mission).

So yeah, exploration is the key. You'll just "unfortunately" have to learn this valuable talent. Fortunately this far from the "pixel"-accurate or downright convoluded "lucky", non-obvious exploration issue (I'm looking at you Metroid and various point-and-click and other adventure-games).

Could you be more patronising please? I think you're not quite being as big a jerk as you could be.

The early maps are full of box rooms with multiple exits where enemies spawn from multiple directions, it is very easy to miss a door or get caught down a side path. Just because you know the way around doesn't mean new players do.

[JHarlequin]

I would suggest 3 things but I'm not sure which would work best.

1 : Something on the HUD to tell you what direction to head in. If it was always there it would suck, but maybe if you've made no progress for 5 minutes it'll pop up for 10 seconds and the support lady would tell you to head that way.

The problem is this would annoy some people who wanted to explore for loot.

2 : Enemies don't spawn in cleared areas. That way you could use enemies as bread crumb trails, but this could make back tracking bland and wouldn't work in every mission. Also if you missed an elevator you wouldn't have a trail.

3 : Make the mini map useful. Instead of being in the corner and completely unreadable, make it so you can full screen it with some kind of system recording your movement for the last minute or two. It doesn't tell you exactly where to go but you can see where you've been and figure it out from there. As it is the mini map is just confusing and doesn't tell you anything useful.

You haven't gone completely crazy with your comments other then the unqouted "before it drives people away" statement and your "the mini map is just confusing" statement. Still these points just aren't as prominent as you might think.

Point 1, the more directions players are given, the less competent they must be. There are many games out there that pretty much make a path glow constantly so you will never get lost and if you are playing a game, then you probably don't need that much direction. Other games make sure there is always a mark on the screen so you just move it to be in front of you, which is still a bit much. A compass though might be okay, but what is it supposed to lead to, just the objective which might lead you into walls, or to the next doorway closer to your objective. More importantly, lots of players have already been playing and didn't need this feature and weren't bothered by it for even a second.

Point 2. Enemies as breadcrumbs just won't work after the early levels. You will find out soon enough that on some levels, you will want to stop killing enemies. Round about the third time you kill more then 200 enemies in one level, you would hate yourself for every saying that there should be enemy breadcrumbs. Besides it kind of breaks the feel of the game. Why would the enemies be there? Are they seriously just strolling back and forth between the objective and you? Why would they be coming from the objective to you instead of just fortifying their position and locking off the ship.

Point 3. This is your best point though most people are just fine with the mini-map as it is. It might seem small for some people, and not the best in terms of a mini-map, but it does actually work. Except for the rare glitches, the mini-map does work. It shows you the objectives, and you just have to keep moving towards the dots to get to your objective. It shows you the next doorway between you and an objective and once you get close enough, it will move the point to the doorway in the next room. If you move away from your objective, it will still adjust the waypoint for you so you always know what is next.

Quite simply, the mini-map works for everyone. Being confused by it will go away if you pay attention for just a few matches. Settings to adjust the size might be nice for some people, but a full sized map should probably be an extremely low priority. Most players currently do fine with the map as it is.

[DolgVlaPet]

Dude, how could you possibly get lost on such linear maps?

*confounded

+3. I think they should be bigger and with alternative routes, that would be way more fun while playing in group, 2 guys to the left, 2 to the right.

[Gamerboy1420]

You haven't gone completely crazy with your comments other then the unqouted "before it drives people away" statement and your "the mini map is just confusing" statement. Still these points just aren't as prominent as you might think.

Point 1, the more directions players are given, the less competent they must be. There are many games out there that pretty much make a path glow constantly so you will never get lost and if you are playing a game, then you probably don't need that much direction. Other games make sure there is always a mark on the screen so you just move it to be in front of you, which is still a bit much. A compass though might be okay, but what is it supposed to lead to, just the objective which might lead you into walls, or to the next doorway closer to your objective. More importantly, lots of players have already been playing and didn't need this feature and weren't bothered by it for even a second.

Point 2. Enemies as breadcrumbs just won't work after the early levels. You will find out soon enough that on some levels, you will want to stop killing enemies. Round about the third time you kill more then 200 enemies in one level, you would hate yourself for every saying that there should be enemy breadcrumbs. Besides it kind of breaks the feel of the game. Why would the enemies be there? Are they seriously just strolling back and forth between the objective and you? Why would they be coming from the objective to you instead of just fortifying their position and locking off the ship.

Point 3. This is your best point though most people are just fine with the mini-map as it is. It might seem small for some people, and not the best in terms of a mini-map, but it does actually work. Except for the rare glitches, the mini-map does work. It shows you the objectives, and you just have to keep moving towards the dots to get to your objective. It shows you the next doorway between you and an objective and once you get close enough, it will move the point to the doorway in the next room. If you move away from your objective, it will still adjust the waypoint for you so you always know what is next.

Quite simply, the mini-map works for everyone. Being confused by it will go away if you pay attention for just a few matches. Settings to adjust the size might be nice for some people, but a full sized map should probably be an extremely low priority. Most players currently do fine with the map as it is.

Simply put : map is fine as it is. jst LOOK & FOLLOW!

[Gaiters]

The maps are randomized, it will be easier to get around when you get a feel for them, but nobody actually knows where to go without the minimap( /!\ icon), unless it's a defence mission.

There is nothing wrong with getting lost in a PVE, I was actually going to post somthing about how the mini map makes the game w+m1(or w+shift+ctl-space+m1) with no effort required. But It might just be me.

[JHarlequin]

The maps are randomized, it will be easier to get around when you get a feel for them, but nobody actually knows where to go without the minimap( /!\ icon), unless it's a defence mission.

There is nothing wrong with getting lost in a PVE, I was actually going to post somthing about how the mini map makes the game w+m1(or w+shift+ctl-space+m1) with no effort required. But It might just be me.

Actually, every once in a while there is a minor issue. Either the connect glitch or some other glitch that bugs your mini map, or sometimes when the "complex/ship" has rooms that get too close to other rooms, sometimes the objective ends up displaying for the wrong room. It can make it difficult, but if you just wander, you will find your way out, unless you don't know how to not walk back along your own path. A player that gets familiar with the layout of each room can probably get through faster during these rare glitches, but they still don't need a compass or visible waypoint marker other then what is displayed on their mini-map.

[Mak_Gohae]

The waypoint indicator on the map doesnt tell height so there are cases where it can send you to places that lead to nowhere and you have to just run around and look for the place to go up or down to get to the right floor. This just happened to me in an alert mission yesterday, i knew that we had to find a place to go up or down but you dont know until you reach a dead end and then you have to figure it out.

[Altale]

I don't even...

[valkrein]

well the minimap should be updated with elevation thing. for beginners it is confusing when there is a room that have two doors in the first and the second floor and the waypoint is in the end of those doors

[Jezex]

Could you be more patronising please? I think you're not quite being as big a jerk as you could be.

The early maps are full of box rooms with multiple exits where enemies spawn from multiple directions, it is very easy to miss a door or get caught down a side path. Just because you know the way around doesn't mean new players do.

Way to bite at the hand of the only guy in this thread to hand out an olive branch.

I started 2 days ago, while I do admit getting lost in my first mission as I overlooked an open vent whilst standing, wondering why the door won't open, the beginning rooms are easy as it comes to navigate. When you do come accross 'dead ends', obstacles and scenery in that vicinity have scuffmarks which indicate that you should use them (wall run, climb some scree, whatever).

I did want to feel for your OP, but your attitude makes that rather difficult.

Safe travels.

[Laki]

well the minimap should be updated with elevation thing. for beginners it is confusing when there is a room that have two doors in the first and the second floor and the waypoint is in the end of those doors

Agreed. The only time I get temporarily lost is when the waypoint is above or below me, and the minimap doesn't have an indicator to show that it's not on my current level. Kind of annoying. Not gamebreaking, but it would be a nice quality of life improvement.

[Damione]

My friend and I started yesterday, were pretty veteran "gamers" and generally "powergame", and I must say that we were both emberassed when we were stuck for 45 minutes in the first level.... We almost quit the level from frustration. We "assumed' the "!" mark on the minimap would lead us to the end distination, except that sometimes we would get to the "!" and it would teleport to a random direction giving it the illusion that it was broken (or we misread the minimap que), looking back on it, it was probably an elevation issue (a passage being on level one, while you take an alternative route on floor two etc. Either that or the marker really was bugged... Not sure. SUGGESTION: maybe have the "!" look different (different color maybe?) When the doorway you need to reach is either below or above you?

[Eternum]

Sometimes the map's indicator bugs and show you the wrong way.

[JHarlequin]

Two bugs I have heard of and seen are when the map sort of freezes up and stays in one particular room. You could go anywhere and the minimap will turn when you turn, but it won't move, and the other bug is when the rooms basically end up overlapping or getting close enough at some point. When this happens, the waypoint will not point to an exit and will likely appear as if it is not attached to any part of the map or might be right in the middle of a room where no objective is. It's pretty rare and sometimes difficult to work with, but usually, just make sure to keep moving along rooms and remember which rooms you have been through. If you remember the rooms for just a short while and get far enough away, the waypoint will start showing you the correct path.

Other bugs that I have heard of are often just explained by the fact that it was leading to one of the few doorways where there is a door a level higher then another door. You just have to notice that when you run most of the way into the next room, the objective will turn around and go back behind you to the previous room.

The top two are bugs and need some work of course. The door on top of a door takes a bit extra experience and recognition, though it could be helped with the suggestion that there could be a varied waypoint color if you are above aor below the objective.

[UnderYourBed]

Most common things that get Tennos lost:

-Vent entrances

-Vertically parallel pathways. A pathway below and a pathway above; which one, mini-map?

-The huge room with the moving conveyor in asteroid bases.

You get used to it after a few runs, mostly from learning from your mistakes.