Impact Vs Puncture Mods (Damage 2.0)

[7grims]

I would really like someone to prove me wrong:

 

Impact mods are useless !

 

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Been testing with the burston prime, either using impact mod and puncture mod, and going into xini and see the difference, to see if it was really worth using impact mods against corpus.

The regular burston and the prime version, come with the same base damage for impact and puncture, by applying impact or puncture, I would increase its stats and see which one was the best mod to use against corpus.

 

The results felt clear, impact was useless, except when killing robotics, yet most robotics are fragile, so for me it doesn't justify using impact mods.

At the end also tried out slash mod, and even on that I was getting better results... but that may be cause the burston as high stats for slash.

 

When I go fight infested I also take my weapons with puncture damage, and yet again i see no downside.

 

 

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To summarize: damage 2.0 feels like a waist of time, you have to keep changing weapons or mod builds to go to this or that mission. And now It seems that even that is worthless, puncture works the best to all.

Puncture is the new armor ignore.

 

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Extra:

Using elements and even combined elements seems also a bit waist of mod slots, if u dont have status chance mod equipped, those elements almost never make the effect. (prove me wrong on this too)

Edited January 5, 2014 by 7grims

[Omega224]

what people don't realize is that unless an enemy has a weakness or a resistance to a damage type it will apply the full amount reguardless of what enemy it is with the exception of grineer armor reducing all damage types except puncture due to it being armor and the puncture mechanic being the only armor ignoring type so yes puncture can be a cure all damage for everything however in extremely high level play it can suffer from not doing extra damage from an enemys weakness against say corpus

[robotmalvado]

Let me try to explain what I think will help you understand, but you need to revisit some threads about it.

 

So Talk about Impact .... 1st lets remind Corpus have Flesh and Shield (red and blue)...  Impact will do -25%dmg to Flesh, but will do +50%dmg to Shield... so lets say that with impact you can take the blue bar out quicker than with red one... OW and that's for Crewmen

As for the robotics I'd still take my chances with Impact ... Puncture seems to have bonus vs them but they have shields too

Yes Ofc Slash will always be good since most enemies are based on flesh

 

Other thing I wish to explain you is something I questioned too... that is "procs/ status chance" are completely separated from the "base dmg"

for example

 

"Status Effects are separate from the actual damage, Magnetic for example does 75% extra damage to shields for every shot, not only when it procs."

 

for corpus  I always go with Magnetic (+dmg to shields) and their blue bar melts even at high lvls but I know if I got to void with magnetic it will probably be useless

 

Also remember if you have a weapon with higher Impact and then add another mod Impact to it will produce greater visual results try to test what I tried to explain (other weapons,  enemies,  lvls, elementals...etc) you will notice it.. if you have any question reply or add me ill gladly talk

[VKhaun]

This is not a problem with Damage 2.0 it's a problem with shields.

 

I don't usually like to speak up because I'm not a stats and numbers guy so I'm afraid I could just be flatly wrong, but my experience has consistently been that shields are a trivial form of defense. Magnetic is totally pointless and Impact is not a worthwhile choice for Corpus as I see it. The shields just melt in front of any damage type.

 

I once tried to experiment comparing Magnetic to Toxic (Toxic ignores shields BTW, hits HP directly.) and accidentally put Viral on my weapon. Did not even notice. Got much better results vs Crewman and about the same as Magnetic against robots. I just don't bother with shield resists anymore. I run Viral + Electric because the big crewman who launch the drones seem to be the HP sponges of the faction. When I recommend this I'm cautious to always tell people to shoot the shield drones down first, but I don't really do that. I just plow the guy in the body and their shields just don't seem to matter.

 

 

EDIT---

Edited for clarity. Reading my own post it sounded like I was just pwning easy enemies with OP weapons.

Edited January 6, 2014 by VKhaun

[KiLLeRZ-PRO_XXX]

even without ststus chance elementals are still useful such as-corrosive deals 75% extra dmg to armor all the time

[7grims]

what people don't realize is that unless an enemy has a weakness or a resistance to a damage type it will apply the full amount reguardless of what enemy it is with the exception of grineer armor reducing all damage types except puncture due to it being armor and the puncture mechanic being the only armor ignoring type so yes puncture can be a cure all damage for everything however in extremely high level play it can suffer from not doing extra damage from an enemys weakness against say corpus

 

yah, i notice that, meaning the quick fix to get on high lvls is just to actually put the mod more suitable for that faction, and bam ur done, for all the majority of the game, puncture is more then enough.

[7grims]

Also remember if you have a weapon with higher Impact and then add another mod Impact to it will produce greater visual results try to test what I tried to explain (other weapons,  enemies,  lvls, elementals...etc) you will notice it.. if you have any question reply or add me ill gladly talk

 

apart from few new details i didnt knew (thanks for that), it doesnt seem that my theory is wrong at all, either way yes, I took in consideration that some weapons are specialized for either impact or puncture. As it would be obvious, a puncture mod in a weapon all based for impact and low puncture wouldn't make a good effect.

Edited January 6, 2014 by 7grims

[7grims]

Magnetic is totally pointless and Impact is not a worthwhile choice for Corpus as I see it. The shields just melt in front of any damage type.

 

thank you, another contributer for my theory :) will i ever be proven wrong? xD

[7grims]

even without ststus chance elementals are still useful such as-corrosive deals 75% extra dmg to armor all the time

 

Thank you, another user noted that too, its new info for me :)

[VKhaun]

thank you, another contributer for my theory :) will i ever be proven wrong? xD

 

About puncture being the new armor ignore? No I don't agree with that at all. The +75%'s in the elemental section of the damage chart are the goals for 'armor ignore' because they allow you to get similar damage performance with fewer slots used. Your new armor ignore is meeting your damage expectations in as few mods as possible, so that you can bring a bigger magazine, more punch-through, reload faster or apply status effects more.

 

Maybe on melee or shotguns where you have the extra puncture mod you could make a case, but Puncture is also only +30% on rifles. A +30% puncture damage mod will never replace the damage of a +90% element properly chosen for the target. Even talking shields.

Edited January 6, 2014 by VKhaun

[7grims]

Maybe on melee or shotguns where you have the extra puncture mod you could make a case, but Puncture is also only +30% on rifles. A +30% puncture damage mod will never replace the damage of a +90% element properly chosen for the target. Even talking shields.

 

Ok, this time you'r mixing arguments, I know I also mention 2 above, but consider the weapon without elements, and consider how much each damage type (impact,punture, slash) is affecting each enemy or all together.

 

And nowdays puncture mod, is very effective, as long as u also have a gun with good puncture stats. Making it suitable for the most and biggest part of enemies existent.

Edited January 6, 2014 by 7grims

[VKhaun]

Ok, this time you'r mixing arguments, I know I also mention 2 above, but consider the weapon without elements, and consider how much each damage type (impact,punture, slash) is affecting each enemy or all together.

 

And nowdays puncture mod, is very effective, as long as u also have a gun with good puncture stats. Making it suitable for the most and biggest part of enemies existent.

 

I'm mixing arguments because you're not defining your point well enough. I was already rank 13 when Damage 2.0 hit, I know what armor ignore used to be. There's no way you can call puncture the 'new armor ignore'. Not in any way shape or form. A 30-60% increase to less than half your base damage, is not comperable to a 90% increase of your total base damage. Not in any way shape or form.

 

You're just exaggerating the benefits of one type of physical damage relative to other physical damage types. That's a point that can be argued forever, but doesn't really have a consequence. The biggest numbers on the physical portion of the chart are only +or- 50%, and the 50% differences are on the most useless surface types. Ferrite, on squishy or easily headshotted Grineer. Shields mentioned above. Infested Flesh, only used for crawlers and runners that actually kill themselves lol. The only eyesore on the whole physical section is -50% to alloy on slash, but again, Grineer give you easy and effective headshots.

 

To get meaningful numbers at 50 and 75% against meaningful HP sponge resists like Alloy, Corpus Flesh, Robotic, and Fossilized/Sinew you are talking elemental mods not physical damage. Base damage isn't terribly relevant, except with avoiding using inaccurate slash weapons against heavy Grineer or I guess not wanting slash at all against high level heavy Grineer unless it's a really OP weapon. The weapon's operation compared to the target's behavior (example: infested swarming = big mag fast reload.) is far more important than base damage type.

 

Again, melee have +90% and are more often used on common and aggressive light targets. You might have an argument to make there for puncture vs Grineer, but that's now down to a niche and not 'the new armor ignore'. 

Edited January 6, 2014 by VKhaun

[7grims]

I know what armor ignore used to be. There's no way you can call puncture the 'new armor ignore'. Not in any way shape or form. A 30-60% increase to less than half your base damage, is not comperable to a 90% increase of your total base damage. Not in any way shape or form. 

 

Yes, that's true, I meant that as in red is the new black, a fashion thing, or expression.

Yes, puncture doesn't have the magic numbers that armor ignore used to have, but I knew eventually someone would find the loop hole in this new damage system, and make it worthless.

In a way, by puncture being so much effective, it feels like its more then enough, and the best build to play all content in the game. Except a few instances were in fact a build with impact or slash is better.

[Sniperoth]

A +30% puncture damage mod will never replace the damage of a +90% element properly chosen for the target. Even talking shields.

 

@OP you're right. Puncture seems to be the best damage type currently. But VKhaun isn't wrong either. With damage 2.0, element plays a bigger role than type when it comes to dealing damage. I think that's what he's trying to say.

 

Elements aside, puncture wins.There's no argument there. But at the end of the day, a player isn't just concerned about which damage type would maximize his damage output. He'll be more concerned about what mod (type or elemental) he can slot in his weapon to maximize his dps.

 

When you start looking at your gun and it's limited mod slots, elemental mods take higher priority simply because their added % damage is higher compared to damage type mods. If I have enough mod slots to equip the elements I want AND a puncture type, I'd definitely slot in a puncture mod. But faced with the choice of slotting an element OR damage type, I'd pick the element in a heartbeat.

[Definitegj]

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Extra:

Using elements and even combined elements seems also a bit waist of mod slots, if u dont have status chance mod equipped, those elements almost never make the effect. (prove me wrong on this too)

Elemental damage is present 100% of the times, only its bonus effect depend on status chance. Impact, Puncture and Slash are all useless in the face of elements.

[7grims]

Impact, Puncture and Slash are all useless in the face of elements.

 

wow, nicely said, I think i started this argument with the point of which damage type is better. But now I see even that doesn't matter, the true new secret to win might just be elements.