An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[Vandoore]

Just read nuggets mega thread and got through the last few pages of this thread. 

and my thoughts, my questions (sorry its bit mixed around this is being typed as it comes)

 

DE, What are you doing? Seriously have you sat down lately and looked at what you have? Do you have any idea of where you want to go, how you want this game to finish? Will this game continually be in development?

 

 

You are releasing new content in the forms of weapons and warframes, and for what purpose? You have at best a flimsy base for new content to stand on yet you are trying to release something every week to...? appease the general player base? keep people preoccupied while you try to fix things? Why?

 

I would much rather you focus on fixing the issues that plague the game before you look at releasing more content. The UI, glitches, crashes, Codex, market place, The void, even lore, and this is something that is echoed throughout the player base. 

I look at Mass effect 3 MP, they had a really solid base and then added too it. New maps, game types, weapons, players. And I think, why can't you do the same? 

 

Where is this game going? Some communication in this area would be really appreciative, a road map, or a general list of what is being looked at. Don't know what I mean look here -> http://www.lofigames.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=295&Itemid=71

 

That is a road map for an indie game called Kenshi, it's being made by one or two people and an audio artist, and while it has a much smaller player base then warframe I honestly think it's a happier player base because it can see what is happening, now, in 6 months, in 12.

 

We, the players, could look and see, oh they're focusing on melee for now. But I see that the void drop rates are in the 2 month list. Okay I can wait a bit.

 

Right now all i see is, everything is being worked on all at once and will be completed at roughly the same time. Or, at least until something new pops up, then that will take priority for a bit and then we will get a new shiny thing. It's frustrating at best not knowing what is happening to a game I really like.

 

 

I have enjoyed this game for a while, but the grind and worthless content is getting, well boring, As I said before I'd rather grind on a game that gave satisfying rewards. 

Edited January 15, 2014 by Vandoore

[MidgetSasquatch]

Wow 27 pages (so far) of very nearly all +1's

 

That, sir, is TOTALLY FREAKING AMAZING

 

Kudos (oh and another +1)

[Deathstroke2000]

/signed. Good points made in the OP.

 

+1

Edited January 15, 2014 by Deathstroke2000

[Bakercompany86]

 

DE, What are you doing? Seriously have you sat down lately and looked at what you have? Do you have any idea of where you want to go, how you want this game to finish? Will this game continually be in development?

 

 

This is the question.  The one big question (well, it's a few questions, but all with the same direction).

 

I seriously don't think that DE had any idea how popular Warframe was going to be.  I don't think they were prepared for it.

 

Maybe their logic was to make a F2P 3rd person shooter that would have a couple hundred thousand people play it and they'd give them cool Space Ninja's and a handful of missions to repeat day in and day out.

 

Now what they have is a massive playerbase who are demanding more from their game.

 

And I'll say what I've been saying, I don't think DE has the content writers they need.  People to put all of this into an actual structure, complete with lore and a story.

 

Instead of taking care of the above issue, they keep adding more (which is still good), and changing things they don't necessarily need to change before they actually address the one big glaring issue (which is lack of content).

 

They.  Need.  Writers.  Good ones too.

 

With a good amount of lore and a solid storyline to back all of this up, we could actually have the path to endgame that we all so desire.

[Kaian-a-coel]

It's pretty much the reverse that should happen. The best solution for DE is to open wide and let us know on a weekly basis what they are doing, give us a roadmap, AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DECRYPT THE DROP TABLES.

[Deathstroke2000]

They're closer to doors shut than the middle of the road, they mention something and 90% of the time they never mention it again (i.e. the grappling hook or jump/jet packs. Last we heard about them was the grappling hook simply won't be done because valkyr has it).

 

And it's not the release of info that gets DE called lairs, it's saying one thing ("We know RNG is a problem"), then doing the exact opposite of that (the detron i.e)

 

Then you don't watch the livestreams, or you purposefully ignore anything wrong in them. They either give bullS#&$ answers ("Soon, around the corner, etc") or simply avoid the question (i.e. the 45 seconds or so (tops) they mentioned the detron).

 

"Fun" fact, the last dev workshop was over a month (33 days to be exact) since their last "weekly" dev workshop post.

Honestly man, I think these answers are due to the Staff themselves not knowing EXACTLY how long it would take for the changes/content to be ready in form of updates lol.

 

A sort of different way of saying " ready when it's ready", IMHO.

[DarkenedThimble]

It's pretty much the reverse that should happen. The best solution for DE is to open wide and let us know on a weekly basis what they are doing, give us a roadmap, AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DECRYPT THE DROP TABLES.

Why did they encrypt the drop tables to begin with? Wasn't it because people were datamining them?

Why would DE be afraid of datamining? And on a related note, why did DE so promptly disable the StalkerHunter program that was floating around to try and spawn Harvester? 

These seems like sketchy things for a company to do. 

[Bakercompany86]

Why did they encrypt the drop tables to begin with? Wasn't it because people were datamining them?

Why would DE be afraid of datamining? And on a related note, why did DE so promptly disable the StalkerHunter program that was floating around to try and spawn Harvester? 

These seems like sketchy things for a company to do. 

 

I don't see how anything good can come from the encryption of the drop tables.  To me, it seems like a pure method to hide stealth changes to things.

 

 

In a game where *everything* is based on RNG, we at least need the ability to figure out where stuff drops and at what rate.

 

Otherwise we have literally zero direction.  No path to follow once the star chart is completed.  No goals.

[Bazools]

This is the question.  The one big question (well, it's a few questions, but all with the same direction).

 

I seriously don't think that DE had any idea how popular Warframe was going to be.  I don't think they were prepared for it.

 

Maybe their logic was to make a F2P 3rd person shooter that would have a couple hundred thousand people play it and they'd give them cool Space Ninja's and a handful of missions to repeat day in and day out.

 

Now what they have is a massive playerbase who are demanding more from their game.

 

And I'll say what I've been saying, I don't think DE has the content writers they need.  People to put all of this into an actual structure, complete with lore and a story.

 

Instead of taking care of the above issue, they keep adding more (which is still good), and changing things they don't necessarily need to change before they actually address the one big glaring issue (which is lack of content).

 

They.  Need.  Writers.  Good ones too.

 

With a good amount of lore and a solid storyline to back all of this up, we could actually have the path to endgame that we all so desire.

Precisely. Regarding the whole lore, endgame and future of the game issue imo what the Devs are missing is a good "old-fashioned" script so they can have an actual roadmap they can rely on for a sucessful and continued development of the game itself, not only that but also to provide better managment of the team's resources, departments (conceptual artists, animators, programmers) and time in order to achieve a better workflow and work pipeline.

[Xatorr]

+1 , My 2 cents.

[Kaian-a-coel]

Good writers? They don't even need to hire them, they have hundreds of people ready to write lore and scenarios for them, and for free! Heck, a lot of us would pay for it even.

[Bazools]

Good writers? They don't even need to hire them, they have hundreds of people ready to write lore and scenarios for them, and for free! Heck, a lot of us would pay for it even.

True. :)

[f3llyn]

Why did they encrypt the drop tables to begin with? Wasn't it because people were datamining them?

Why would DE be afraid of datamining? And on a related note, why did DE so promptly disable the StalkerHunter program that was floating around to try and spawn Harvester? 

These seems like sketchy things for a company to do. 

 

Because people were data mining the drop tables and there was an incident where DE was saying one thing was happening but it was found out that what they said was pretty much a complete lie. And I guess they didn't like being called out on that very much so they encrypted the data files.

Edited January 15, 2014 by f3llyn

[Bakercompany86]

Good writers? They don't even need to hire them, they have hundreds of people ready to write lore and scenarios for them, and for free! Heck, a lot of us would pay for it even.

 

Not a horrible idea really.

 

 

Let the community come up with ideas, and pick out what you want.  They won't even require payment, I bet.

 

Out of the gobs and gobs of players, I bet there are some AAA writers among us.  I'd put money on it.

 

And I don't think any of us would think any less of DE if they did something like that, which is what I fear they're afraid of.

 

I don't think DE wants their reputation as a developer tarnished by reaching out to the community for ideas, even if we're ALL screaming for it.

 

 

 

But hell, Warframe isn't even an original concept.  A huge chunk of it was pulled right out of a game that DE released 6 years ago.

 

If you didn't know any better, you'd think you were looking at Warframe in this picture.

 

http://einfogames.com/news/files/2012/11/darksector-03.jpg

 

 

EDIT:  What I meant to say is, the studio is being really stubborn in lieu of their reputation (in my opinion).  And I think that's why not one single amazing idea from the community has made it into the game.

 

Other than stupidly obvious stuff like Loki's sentinel going invisible with him as opposed to being obliterated when he does.

 

But they have ignored every single idea (from what I can tell) from the community, and instead gone entirely different directions and changed things we've never even complained about.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Bakercompany86

[bakaxy]

If I would have written something like this it would have been another rant about the problems plaguing this game, which become worse and worse with every single update.

 

Especially after encrypting the data, so we can't look into the drop tables anymore, was a *@##$y move from DE.

 

So I thank you for writing such a calm post collstro.

 

+1 

[--collstro--]

If I would have written something like this it would have been another rant about the problems plaguing this game, which become worse and worse with every single update.

 

Especially after encrypting the data, so we can't look into the drop tables anymore, was a *@##$y move from DE.

 

So I thank you for writing such a calm post collstro.

 

+1 

 

I thank you and everyone else for all the support. Hopefully something that benefits us all will come of this.

[skynexus]

did anybody mention the story yet? warframe atm makes no sense to me all we do is rob and pillage the galaxy and the dojo oh man.....the dojo really needs some work done on it there's like nothing to do in there other than make clan weapons and plant some tree's i mean if we are decorating stuff we should really get our own rooms that would be sweet also some fun activities other than that parkour simulation like a bow contest and other competitive fun activities that wouldn't  make the dojo a wasteland 

[se05239]

I thank you and everyone else for all the support. Hopefully something that benefits us all will come of this.

 

DE isn't exactly know to listen to their community and even less on their founders.. but this thread might still make something happen.

That I hope, and wish.

[Bakercompany86]

I've sent a message to DERebecca with a link to this thread.

 

In the past, she's been quite excellent about getting requested material to the Devs attention.  We even managed to get her to bring it up on a livestream (a post in the past).

 

I firmly believe she will do the same again.

[Blatantfool]

I've sent a message to DERebecca with a link to this thread.

 

In the past, she's been quite excellent about getting requested material to the Devs attention.  We even managed to get her to bring it up on a livestream (a post in the past).

 

I firmly believe she will do the same again.

 

 She knows all about it. I've been bringing it up quite a lot.

[Bazools]

 She knows all about it. I've been bringing it up quite a lot.

There we go. Awesome news!

[NoirProxy]

I think the deadness of the game kind of tells you where Warframe is slowly going at the moment. It isn't like DE don't have a track record of making bad decisions. I believe it has to do with the boost in initial success and in a way they never knew what to really do with the game.

 

What is rather funny is that they are still playing catch up with the seam splitting amount of bugs and problems with the game that they still feel it right to release more content than fixes AND charge for them even when not finished. Kogake I'm looking at you.

 

In a way I think DE are silently developing the game now for the Xbox One in hopes of milking a little more cash but that is yet to be seen. After the release of PS4 it was evident that they didn't give a damn about the platform and this evidence was solidified with their constant talk and praise of the potential of also moving the product over to the X1.

 

I mean seriously after the release their talks about the platform halted to non-existance and from what I and others have seen of Warframe on the PS4 it has been a collosal failure when it comes to up to date support.

 

While I do enjoy playing the game for 15 minute sessions before getting a little bored I will say that we played nicely into their hands when it came to giving them money for 70% of the content, which is indeed just weapons, skins, and frames. I truely commend those that were able to refrain from spending a dime. *salute*

Edited January 15, 2014 by NoirProxy

[Bakercompany86]

 She knows all about it. I've been bringing it up quite a lot.

 

Awesome!!!!

[afmos]

If I would have written something like this it would have been another rant about the problems plaguing this game, which become worse and worse with every single update.

 

Especially after encrypting the data, so we can't look into the drop tables anymore, was a *@##$y move from DE.

 

So I thank you for writing such a calm post collstro.

 

+1 

 

The encrypted drop tables bother me a lot as well.  I suppose that could have been done to stop people from using hex editors to alter the drop rates. That said, there should be a way to prevent hacking as well as keep things transparent.

 

The problem with drop rates is much deeper than a table saying XYZ drops 10% of the time. One obvious issue is that, certain enemies are very rare. Even with a 100% drop rate, a mod dropping on a rare enemy may drop less often than a mod dropping 10% of the time on a common enemy.  A less obvious issue is that DE's random number generator(s) is/are pretty no uniform in their distribution of random numbers. What that translates to is there are sweet spots in the random numbers that will skew the drop rates in the table. There was a post by Steve I think showing graphs of the before and after random number generator.  Even the after graph clearly had clusters.

[Deservate]

I absolutely hate it when people "represent" people that havent got the possibility so say a word. You can pretty much call me a veteran and while I still agree with most of the arguments, a title like "A letter to DE from x amount of veterans" would be much better. Please. Dont do it again.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Deservate