An Open Letter From A Pseudo Veteran

[Shifted]

I couldn't care less about a campaign. It's an online game, story shouldn't be a priority. Slap lore into the codex to create a more interesting universe. It's enough.

Focus on making the gameplay fun.

 

Animators could work at remaking the bosses, adding some new types of enemies, and maybe some new movement / combat anims (I know Melee 2.0 is coming, and I'm hyped). That qualifies as animator work, right?

 

The rest of the team?

Expanding tilesets variety and variety within tilesets (yeah, go read that again slowly), giving us more reason to play different types of missions and making them more exciting. Game at the moment has boiled down to grinding survival for xp, void for crafting parts and an occasional alert.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Shifted

[NikolaiLev]

Which has nothing to do with the animation/artist/coding teams.. If anything.. Buff the Tigris, more pellets and more boom!

 

Well, actually, it does.  It means they shouldn't spend their time animating boring weapons.  But this is something the upper people need to do.

 

Shifted has a point.  Animators can be animating new enemies and bosses; modelers and texture artists could be dedicated to making new level assets, while coders can be working on AI.

 

The priorities aren't in order, though.

 

If a few months with no new weapons or warframes provided us with AI 2.0 and a bounty of enemies, mini-bosses and bosses that made the game into a bounty of challenge, then that'd but well worth it to me.  But that doesn't result in short term profit, which seems to be all DE cares for.

Edited January 15, 2014 by NikolaiLev

[Makya]

Well, actually, it does.  It means they shouldn't spend their time animating boring weapons.  But this is something the upper people need to do.

Counting that Stats at their point do not exist.. What defines a boring weapon?

Shifted has a point.  Animators can be animating new enemies and bosses; modelers and texture artists could be dedicated to making new level assets, while coders can be working on AI.

Seeing as they -are- working on AI, the coders are doing as you request. Seeing as they -are- designing new enemies they -are- already doing what you suggest they should be doing.

If a few months with no new weapons or warframes provided us with AI 2.0 and a bounty of enemies, mini-bosses and bosses that made the game into a bounty of challenge, then that'd but well worth it to me. 

So then sit pretty and wait for U12.

But that doesn't result in short term profit, which seems to be all DE cares for.

To me, it is sad you think this.

[NikolaiLev]

Counting that Stats at their point do not exist.. What defines a boring weapon?

Seeing as they -are- working on AI, the coders are doing as you request. Seeing as they -are- designing new enemies they -are- already doing what you suggest they should be doing.

So then sit pretty and wait for U12.

To me, it is sad you think this.

 

The Karak was a fairly lackluster assault rifle, serving only to make more obvious how underpowered the Braton is.  And really, I doubt that modelers are just thrown in a room to blindly make weapon models.  It is (or should be) a holistic process where the leads sit down and say "What would be a cool weapon?"  There are many ideas for cool new weapons, including ones that make use of alt-fire mechanics (Penta was a step in this direction).  The Flak cannon could have (and, imo, should have) been a straight port of the Unreal Tournament flak cannon.  That would've been awesome.

 

I've seen no indication, from livestream or otherwise, that AI is even on their list of priorities.  And the new enemies they're working on have no guarantee to be interesting; the last couple enemies (Detron Crewman, Anti-moa) were pretty dull.

 

Yeah, it's kinda sad that I think that.  Because DE has given me no reason not to believe it, and every reason to do so.  Every one of their decisions, be it focusing on purchaseable content (weapons), a console release (which splits dev team focus and puts limits on what they can implement), and increasing grind rather than mitigating it all tell me they just care about making money.

 

Sure it'd be nice to watch their livestreams and accept at face value they care about their game.  I have no doubt that some of the folks at DE do care about their game beyond a money making venture.  But the people making decisions don't seem to care about making a fun game.  Fun is incidental; profit is what's important.

 

And as we all know, profit numbs the feeling.

[Seanjuju]

I couldn't care less about a campaign. It's an online game, story shouldn't be a priority. Slap lore into the codex to create a more interesting universe. It's enough.

Focus on making the gameplay fun.

 

Animators could work at remaking the bosses, adding some new types of enemies, and maybe some new movement / combat anims (I know Melee 2.0 is coming, and I'm hyped). That qualifies as animator work, right?

 

The rest of the team?

Expanding tilesets variety and variety within tilesets (yeah, go read that again slowly), giving us more reason to play different types of missions and making them more exciting. Game at the moment has boiled down to grinding survival for xp, void for crafting parts and an occasional alert.

Your completely wrong. Story is always a priority for a game aiming beyond eternal mediocrity. Dragon Nest is an example of a game in which a compelling story makes the game much more interesting to play. Planetside2 is an example of a game in which a very large budget is used to produce scale and awe as a replacement for an actual story; a good game but mediocre. 

 

I anticipate the release of a game like Destiny among other AAA titles will have a huge impact on warframe. Now is the time for Warfame to break away from every other shooter in a much more pronounced way. I think DE understands how quickly they need to scale warframe and Lore needs to be a very large part of that. "Just another shooter" isn't going to cut it. A huge expansion to the melee system is a small but good step. A solid base needs to be established quickly so that content has more to utilize. There is no more room for flaws in any of warframe's systems. This year will be very important.     

[NikolaiLev]

Your completely wrong. Story is always a priority for a game aiming beyond eternal mediocrity. Dragon Nest is an example of a game in which a compelling story makes the game much more interesting to play. Planetside2 is an example of a game in which a very large budget is used to produce scale and awe as a replacement for an actual story; a good game but mediocre. 

 

I anticipate the release of a game like Destiny among other AAA titles will have a huge impact on warframe. Now is the time for Warfame to break away from every other shooter in a much more pronounced way. I think DE understands how quickly they need to scale warframe and Lore needs to be a very large part of that. "Just another shooter" isn't going to cut it. A huge expansion to the melee system is a small but good step. A solid base needs to be established quickly so that content has more to utilize. There is no more room for flaws in any of warframe's systems. This year will be very important.     

 

That's really just an opinion.  I could care less about a game's story; I play it for gameplay.  If I wanted a good story I'd read a book.

 

Planetside 2 was bad because it's grindy as hell.  Not that Warframe is any better.

[Shifted]

Your

You're*, if anything.

 

Secondly, Destiny isn't coming to PC's AFAIR.

 

Let's compare warframe to games that are similar in terms of what the game is about (loot) (admitted by Steve during last livestream, if you need confirmation) - Borderlands and Diablo (throw in most online games in there as well):

 

Both have some kind of a story, but both aren't holding the story as their main focus. The story in those is just a background for what the game is about: loot and progression.

 

Now lets see what keeps a player in a game. Good gameplay or good story?

If story is good a player will play through it once or twice, a few more times TOPS, by then knowing pretty much everything, and move on.

Good gameplay in a loot based game will keep the player in for a loong while, trying out different builds and playstyles every time.

 

I'm not saying story should be completely disregarded. Just don't hold it as a main focus, not in an online, coop, RNG loot game.

[Seanjuju]

That's really just an opinion.  I could care less about a game's story; I play it for gameplay.  If I wanted a good story I'd read a book.

 

Planetside 2 was bad because it's grindy as hell.  Not that Warframe is any better.

Story and gameplay and progression go hand-in-hand. I don't really understand what you mean. I'll think on it.

 

 

You're*, if anything.

 

Secondly, Destiny isn't coming to PC's AFAIR.

 

Let's compare warframe to games that are similar in terms of what the game is about (loot) (admitted by Steve during last livestream, if you need confirmation) - Borderlands and Diablo (throw in most online games in there as well):

 

Both have some kind of a story, but both aren't holding the story as their main focus. The story in those is just a background for what the game is about: loot and progression.

 

Now lets see what keeps a player in a game. Good gameplay or good story?

If story is good a player will play through it once or twice, a few more times TOPS, by then knowing pretty much everything, and move on.

Good gameplay in a loot based game will keep the player in for a loong while, trying out different builds and playstyles every time.

 

I'm not saying story should be completely disregarded. Just don't hold it as a main focus, not in an online, coop, RNG loot game.

Dragon Nest.

 

Anyway, good gameplay requires direction in this game. Warframe is not a sandbox. Repetitive gameplay is only enjoyable until its not. A game with a good story has quality. Warframe needs story and gameplay to be competitive.

[Makya]

The Karak was a fairly lackluster assault rifle, serving only to make more obvious how underpowered the Braton is.

You are talking stats, which is something that is not within that division. Take that up with the division who focuses on balancing stats. To you it is lackluster, to me it was very nice. The Drakgoon is a meh, unique shotgun that I doubt I will toy with very much and the UT one I looked up seemed the same, the alt fire to me looked boring to use for my frames.

 

I've seen no indication, from livestream or otherwise, that AI is even on their list of priorities.

So you missed how they were talking about making a new AI system for melee, new units who specialize in dynamic Melee combat as well as more complexities with unit interaction and tactics?

 

increasing grind rather than mitigating it all

Its a online game, there is going to be grind, its the only thing that keeps people playing beyond the basic 50-120 hours it takes to bite into and chew through all of the content a game can offer. If your issue is RNG grind, they could side step that and put in a grind that is guaranteed to take weeks to gain the desired goal like most F2P/MMO games. This will likely anger more people than it pleases.

 

And as we all know, profit numbs the feeling.

For you it may numb the feeling of fun, for me it does not. If they are trying to milk money from me, they are doing a rather piss job at it from offering many items free from doing their events, more from just watching their mini event battles and listening to when they are streaming to know when additional game wide free items are offered for completing missions. I have bought plat, when I was given a discount on it, and still have a rather large section of it still from the small buy, mostly spending it on choice buys of potatoes for items I plan to use for long term, never for just the new flavor items. If they wished to increase profits they really need to look into their books at not what brings in money but what does not, which is a large section of their Market and study 'why'. Many of the area's have absurd prices for the items that if lowered would increase sales, and in short order increase profits on a regular basis and not a spurt.

[Shifted]

Dragon Nest.

 

Anyway, good gameplay requires direction in this game. Warframe is not a sandbox. Repetitive gameplay is only enjoyable until its not. A game with a good story has quality. Warframe needs story and gameplay to be competitive.

I'm sorry but I'm not getting any information out of this post.

 

And I wouldn't touch this Dragon Nest game with a stick, the art style is disqualifying it for me instantly.

 

To recap what I meant in my posts:

Warframe needs to expand on it's gameplay features, currently it's not offering much diversity, and new weapons (that aren't that much different anyway) aren't cutting it.

I personally don't care for story, and if you qualify the new Sargas Ruk voiceovers as a part of what "story" in warframe would be, then let me inform you that it forced me to mute all "transmissions" in audio settings.

Yeah, it gets annoying when you hear the same lines hundreds of times.

So thanks, I'll pass on the story.

 

Unless it's DE's plan to rotate its playerbase by annoying "veterans" /sarcasm

 

I think I've spent my thoughts on the matter in this thread.

[arch111]

Ok, we all know the game needs context and a story that ties it all together.

I think alot of you are getting the idea of Campaign backwards.

This is not a single pl RPG or action brawler. The kind of campaign we need are as follows.

A new weapon is discovered. It is an infested sidearm.

First Lotus sends us ln a data recovery mission to find out more.

The data points to a miniboss at a certain Node.

Playing the mission lets us face mobs with the new weapon.

we get intel and Lore though the mission.

At the end we get a deception/ exterminate combo with a boss and escape with the bp of the new weapon.

After it is available in the Market or can be found in game.

See CELLS for a better idea of this system.

My point here is, even small things can build the story and Lore.

That and npcs that are more then just the title of a mission.

Diplomat found. Intriguing, who is it and where is he off to?

Just add a small element of Lore into the mission and that alone adds to the World.

Add four models for capture. Give them names.

You know that kind of thing.

[NikolaiLev]

Ok, we all know the game needs context and a story that ties it all together.

I think alot of you are getting the idea of Campaign backwards.

This is not a single pl RPG or action brawler. The kind of campaign we need are as follows.

A new weapon is discovered. It is an infested sidearm.

First Lotus sends us ln a data recovery mission to find out more.

The data points to a miniboss at a certain Node.

Playing the mission lets us face mobs with the new weapon.

we get intel and Lore though the mission.

At the end we get a deception/ exterminate combo with a boss and escape with the bp of the new weapon.

After it is available in the Market or can be found in game.

See CELLS for a better idea of this system.

My point here is, even small things can build the story and Lore.

That and npcs that are more then just the title of a mission.

Diplomat found. Intriguing, who is it and where is he off to?

Just add a small element of Lore into the mission and that alone adds to the World.

Add four models for capture. Give them names.

You know that kind of thing.

 

I still don't agree.  I'd far rather they address the excessive grind, improve the AI, and implement more interesting game modes than what we have now.

[Anunymau5]

I still don't agree.  I'd far rather they address the excessive grind, improve the AI, and implement more interesting game modes than what we have now.

I suppose you're right but I honestly don't mind the garbage AI if I at least know why im fighting the garbage AI. Because when I starte, we were fighting them because they were bad and at one point had a bunch of deathstars (formorian) except now we are fighting them to uphold the balance or something. 

[arch111]

I still don't agree.  I'd far rather they address the excessive grind, improve the AI, and implement more interesting game modes than what we have now.

Would love that to. But lets be honest, it will take a long time to do.

In the mean time, they need us playing. Cells is not that hard to put together.

Besides, events is all the story we have so far.

[NikolaiLev]

Would love that to. But lets be honest, it will take a long time to do.

In the mean time, they need us playing. Cells is not that hard to put together.

Besides, events is all the story we have so far.

 

It would not take a long time to mitigate the ridiculous amount of grind in the game.  It'd be as simple as adjusting drop rates, introducing pseudo-random distribution, and removing pointless mechanics that introduce grind (i.e. forma level reset).

[7grims]

Yes I am talking about RNG. Now RNG isn't always bad, many games happen to use RNG quite well. For instance: the Borderlands games, Darksiders II, The Diablo Games, and to some extent, The Elder Scrolls/Fallout Series. Except the reason why it works so well in these other games is because the RNG is not the game. The RNG is just one iota of a much larger experience. So if it does break, we can ignore it because it's not a glaring problem. Except when the RNG in a game is broken (Such as Warframe) it can lead to frustration, anger (whether it be at the Devs or the Game), and an inclination to stop playing. 

 

So true, so right, so in the spot.

I have described the problem of RNG many times, and yet I like how clear you make it.