Ash. Ninja. Assassin. Fear Personafied?

[Ttariel]

No thats Necros

 

Ash is Stalkers little brother, all he does is follow other tenno and look at butts.

[SaltyPopsicleZWZ]

Omnislash bladestorm anyone?

If he is a solo warframe, this skill can let him slay boss much faster.

Edited February 19, 2014 by SaltyPopsicleZWZ

[olipops]

I stand behind this with all i am!!!

[The-Ex-Wife]

I was thinking that having ash's bladestorm either you click it to engage all nearby enemies. Or you can hold it down and focus in on one unit and attack it multiple times, say a boss or something like that "But that is too op!!!" Then what is valkyr. She goes invincible and can last well over a minute in that state just smashing one enemy. So no I think it would be quite fair. Running into a room full of bad guys and seeing the boss in the middle and hold down 4 and you go invisible for a short duration just enough time to activate lock on. Then you teleport to your one target and unleash a furry up animated attacks dealing insane damage while the rest of your fellow tenno can wipe out the smaller enemies.
Just my opinion.

[olipops]

yes yes yes single target blade storm. 1000 cuts to the face.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I'm a huge Ash fan, honestly... But he does need some work. What kinda sucks is that imho both Ash and Loki are flawed in their own rights... Heck, I would prefer a frame that combines the best parts of Ash and Loki together than two frames that have varying problems.

 

Shuriken is pretty meh, but I saw some builds that focused on it, so I'll give it the benefits of the doubt. Supposedly it's one of the biggest DPS per cast cost skill in the whole game if you mod it right, so I'll say it probably needs less work that other skills. That said, with a Despair or Hikou as a secondary, it kinda renders Shuriken irrelevant to me, as i'd rather keep my energy for other skills. I would actually prefer to have Loki's decoy in place of Shuriken, as it's imho more useful and it fits better with the deception/ninja theme.

 

Smoke Screen is great. Sure, even fully modded it's 10 seconds shorter than Loki's , but it costs way less. With 30% efficiency equipped, the casting costs drops to 25 energy, that's basically one single energy globe, and those drop all the time. In nightmare mode, even with the energy degeneration condition, Ash is viable due to that. Heck, I personally equip Rage on Ash and the minute my shield goes down in nightmare solo runs, I get my energy back and i'm back to being invisible all the time. Add Equilbrium and you'll be restoring your HP pool off energy drops too. No contest, Ash is a god when it comes to solo play basically. The 20 seconds of invisibility is more than enough , and you get the very useful smoke bomb effect that interrupts enemies and makes you immune to knockdowns and interrupts when casting, making it a great panic button. What's especially great about Ash is that he's a pretty tanky frame even without his invisibility. He has a huge HP pool and somewhat decent shield... And he's basically invisible all of the time with a small window every 20 seconds when he can get hit before he casts again. Add Energy Syphon to the equation and you'll be restoring 12 Energy per cast, bringing down the ability to cost to like nothing. What's great with Ash's stealth is that he doesn't need to wear an ugly hat for efficiency, plus he doesn't even have to have flow equipped, as the cost of his core abilities is low enough that you're fine without it...

 

Ash's teleport is imho better than Loki's, although you can do less advanced tactics. Still, i'd rather be able to teleport to objects and to other players for a revive than switching with an enemy... That said, after you get a taste of Nova's teleport, both seem crude and they imho need to make it a "teleport to objects/enemies/area skill. Retain the existing functions, but also give you a teleport to the cursor feature akin to Nova. Teleporting to enemies can get you killed, at least add a smoke bomb effect once you teleport of alleviate that issue.

 

Finally , Bladestorm, the one skill most people find problematic. Yes, it looks cool , but it's so slow and it doesn't even kill medium level enemies in one cast... Plus my chain always gets broken as other players kill my highlighted targets, leaving me with an empty energy pool and nothing to show for it. I pretty much never use it, especially when I can use smoke screen and kill 20 enemies in a couple seconds with Galatine/Dual Ichors anyway. Why pay huge energy for scattered , slow kills that barely work most of the time ? Hence why it needs a rework. This is especially true because as of now, Ash simply lacks a crowd control skill. Pretty much all other classes have one that works to a varying degree... But with Ash, once the cryopod gets stormed , you're stuck going invisible and running in circles killing as many people using melee, not exactly efficient. In contrast, Radial Disarm isn't a damage dealing powerhouse, but it can turn a situation where a pod or player is surrounded into a bunch of enemies flailing around. Basically, I would make it so that instead of killing each enemies one by one, all enemies die simultaneously, with numerous ashes appearing on other player's screen... And buff the dmg so it can kill or at least stun high level enemies.

 

Basically, to me the best frame would have Ash's looks and helmets, Ash's durability, Ash's Smoke Screen, but with Loki's Duration, Loki's Decoy, Nova's Teleport and either Radial Disarm or a Reworked Blade Storm that can be used as crowd control.

 

But in the meanwhile, i'll continue to use Ash, even though I admit i'm running it with only Smoke Screen equipped most of the time. I Especially love the Embolist on him, as it alleviates alot of problems melee characters have , as you retain full mobility, the ability to hit multiple targets, to hit flyers , enemies behind cover and cameras, it can also act as a crowd control. Overall,it might be strange to use a pistol essentially as a crowd control/melee weapon, but at least it's not restricted by animation times, it's spammable on the run and you'll be hitting and killing enemies much faster than even with Fang Prime or Dual Ichors... You need pistol ammo mutation for it to last you a whole level , but if you combine it with a nice melee weapon , it should do you fine. And in the end, it's a great way to make up for Ash's lack of crowd control. Just go invisible and bug spray everyone as you slide and jump all over the place basically... And any frame that can solo for 40 minutes easy in most conditions deserves a mention, it's by far my goto frame for solo Void and NM runs. I know Loki purists will go all "Loki Master Race" on me on that one, but he's way too squishy and in the long run, I'd rather cast my Smoke Screen three times every minute vs two times, not wear an ugly hammerhead hat for efficiency , not have energy problems due to higher ability cost but mostly, I want to be able to take some shots from high-end enemies once my invisibility runs out...

 

And really , I love the fact Ash doesn't rely on crowd control cheapshots like most other classes. He actually has to work for his kills, not press a button to instantly clear 40 enemies from the map like Rhino, Nova, Mag , Saryn, and so on do. It's more satifying to master clearing a whole map using only guns and melee while invisible than rely on a "win" button that clears rooms, but it does give him a bad rep as being a bad class for team play and such. That said, nobody complains in the end when everyone is down but me and I clear the cryopod and revive everyone while invisible... Sure, he's not the best fit for Defense, but for other modes, even survival, he's more than capable to hold his own and contribute tremendously, especially if you gear him up with the proper gear that takes advantage of his mobility and invisibility.

Edited February 22, 2014 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Stealth Cobra, you sir, are exactly, absolutely, correct. +1000. You nailed it like a pile driver falling on a thumb tack. That is the best description of what is in my head and what Ash is/needs to be that I have seen yet! Kudos! 

[Jinmori]

2) The second suggestion, and the one I would personally prefer, would be taking a page out of Valkyr's abilities. Let Blade Storm, for a set durration, allow you to use Ash's personal hidden blades. These blades would be leathaly sharp, and tainted by a toxic venom, ensuring that bleeding and viral procs would be easily atained via using the blades. This will help chip at the health of higher leveled enemies as the bleed and viral procs would having a sustained health drop. The great part about this ability, is it would mix in with the others. As these would be a custom melee weapon, and Ash, being the Ninja/Stealth frame, Assassination using these would also provide benifit to the player. Using these would allow Assassinations of MUCH higher damage output to be done on unalerted enemies (even if the alarm has been triggered, so long as they aren't alert to anyone else, doing their routine AI walking around, etc). This would mean combinations of Teleport and/or Smoke Screen would highly increase the damage of both the melee aspect and Assassination aspect of this Ult. As a team utility, this would mean that Ash could directly target high threat enemies, and either Assassinate them, and/or melee them procing bleeds/virals to decrease at their health. After all, Ash's effects are supposed to be felt on the battlefield by all? Right Tenno?

 

I want that. 

Also the fact that they've put a lot of work in the animation of the power shouldn't keep DE from changing it, it's what game designers do, when it's not working, it's not working, you have to replace it. And this would be absolutely awesome.

 

As for the teleport i suggested in my own feedback thread to make the teleport do the ult attack, but only on one target.

This way the teleport is worth it's energy cost and is actually usefull to take out big target like heavy grineers, the animation of the ult doesn't go to waste and everyone is happy, both players and devs. Tadam.

 

Anyway, best feedbacks/suggestions on Ash i've seen on the forum. 

Please guys listen to us ash's fan. Pleaaaaaase.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Jinmori

[Shuuro]

Thank you everyone for your feedback so far. For those that have much love for the Animations of BladeStorm, I didn't exactly have in mind to have them completely scrapped. In fact, I had in my mind that these animations could even be used as the new Assassinations of the Dual Assassin blade Ult I have suggested. In my mind. I have an Image of Ash Rushing through a door, seeing enemies down below him, free target teleporting down to them 'causing an AoE stun effect, and quickly dispatching them through melee or Ult Assassination/Melee.

 

I can understand that people might have a really bad impression of how the Ult would work if it was designed after Valkyrs, but just think for a moment. What if it was done, 'right'? An Ash that moves around the field with Lethal Blades at his wrists, able to combo/counter effectively thanks to melee 2.0? Getting into melee range wouldn't be difficult thanks to the aided abilities of Stealth and Teleport. Ash should be able to really take in the role of High Risk High Reward pay off, being in constant danger, but in turn have his damage output and maneuverability high enough to keep him in and out of combat.

 

Some might think stealth would negate this high risk aspect, but stealth is not damage invulnerability, it helps us avoid detection. There are many instances where, if stealth runs out and we're still in the midst of battle surrounded by enemies, things wont go well for us if we get knocked down or crowed controlled by a heavy, lancer or anything else with the ability to stun us. I've had similar instances happen when I used Valkyrs ult, and she has invulnerability during her ult, Ash, will not. Ash will need the aid of teleport and stealth to keep him going.

 

Again, thank you everyone for your feedback so far. It makes me happy to see I'm not the only one that wishes Ash to be much more than he is right now.

[autarchist]

Yes to more ninja Ash! Fitting for Ash Wednesday!

Shuriken:

 Make the Shuriken's stagger/stun. Add a 25%(ish) damage increase/armor decrease (one or the other). The debuff will not stack on the tartget. This will ensure that skill will somewhat scale.

I like debuff idea that's been kicked around! (would suggest Weaken/slow) Also, I like the idea of a cloud of them in Ninja Scroll shuriken barrage style so its not just a fancy kunai. This could be a killer damage thing.

Smoke Screen: The only thing I would add to this is the possibility of a group stealth in a rather small AoE area around the caster, smaller than Warcry or Rhino's Roar. Other skills do this better unintentionally anyways.

This would be really neat & I saw it mentioned before. For a different buff, the smoke could fill an area and stagger all for a couple seconds to clear space for your newly invisible frame (and ALLIES) to kill or escape the bobbleheads /^_/^

Teleport: Let this become free aim, Nova can already perform a 'spamable' free aim teleport that EVERYONE in the team can use, I don't see why Ash, shouldn't be able to. Add in a small AoE area stun at the target location, as well as giving Ash a 3 second (NOT effeted by mods) increase in melee damage.

OR What if it STEALTHED you instantly behind target (regardless of alert level)? Free sneak attack & will improve when stealth improves for emergent effects. ++ninja!

 

Bladestorm is great as is, I think- but its not a pure damage thing. Use to regain shield while invulnerable (great if allies kill stuff too so you can live) OR use to take cover, target group, and return right to your cover spot after! Plus, it looks ninja as all heck! It does take time, so press again to cancel was best idea I saw so far!

 

Also, McKentucky(sp) - Those ideas are great too!