Something I'm Sure We Could All Get On Board With Regarding Self Damage

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

now, i understand the need for self damage from some weapons like the penta/ogris/stug and i believe there are ways to hurt yourself with the ignis somehow (though i've never seen it happen yet)  i'd actually... for the sake of solo players and pretty much everybody on the whole... i would love to see it made so that self damage instead of often outright killing you, was remodeled to automatically zero your shields and do a percentage of your health in damage regardless of how hard they actually hit enemies.

 

for example primary weapons cap out at 90% multi-shot so most of the time you wind up with 2 projectile explosives. in their case they should obliterate your shields, knock you down and do 45% of your maximum health in damage per grenade. this way you end up crippling and briefly rendering yourself stunned, but not outright killing you, which solves the problem of solo players failing a mission because of one slip of the trigger.

 

secondary weapons like the stug may be a little more complicated what with the 6-ammo charge. granted with multi-shot it still leaves you with between 2 and 3 projectiles that COULD potentially nail you. in the case of secondary explosives the rate of damage would have to be closer to 30% of your max health per explosion that you've hit yourself with and still retain the knockdown and shield cripple.

 

it would really increase the number of people using these special heavy explosive weapons in solo missions when you don't have to worry that you're going to slip and outright kill yourself if there is at least a SMALL chance that you can get back up, hide and recover a little. also, i'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to destroy yourself entirely, what i'm trying to get across here is that no matter how you mod your weapon, you shouldn't be able to outright kill yourself in one shot, if you make the mistake again, like a third grenade or 4th in the case of secondaries, it would still destroy your shields again and do another 30-45% of your max hp in damage to you, which if you're of course.. at that point or lower, it WILL send you packing.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

Moved to the proper section.

 where even is the proper section? i could not for the life of me figure out where the suggestions part of the forum is...

[koopagon]

i cant fully agree with this due to its not punishing players for not learning the qualities of their weapons and learning how to and how not to use them.

 

if i pick up a grenade launcher in any game, i expect to be able to blow myself up. if i cannot, i feel like the game devs are babying me and slapping my wrist every time i try to commit suicide.

 

is suicide bad? yes.

should i not do it? yes.

should i not be even given the option? no.

 

one character that can greatly benefit from this is trinity. trinity can use blessing then link, blow herself up and then have all of the damage transmitted to nearby enemies. i have seen a few people use this build to great effect.

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

i cant fully agree with this due to its not punishing players for not learning the qualities of their weapons and learning how to and how not to use them.

 

if i pick up a grenade launcher in any game, i expect to be able to blow myself up. if i cannot, i feel like the game devs are babying me and slapping my wrist every time i try to commit suicide.

 

is suicide bad? yes.

should i not do it? yes.

should i not be even given the option? no.

 

one character that can greatly benefit from this is trinity. trinity can use blessing then link, blow herself up and then have all of the damage transmitted to nearby enemies. i have seen a few people use this build to great effect.

 

 

 

 

so for the sake of one warframe we shouldn't make it so you can't one-hit kill yourself with every exploding weapon...

 

 

that i don't agree with at all. it's a trick i'm fairly certain was really an overlooked side-effect of the ability.  also, how does putting you at 10% health with no shields and knocking you down not punish you for screwing up with a weapon? yeah the initial explosion probably nailed everything within 15 feet of you, but outside that you can still get rushed and finished off. if we're smart about it perhaps it should also disable your shields and abilities for 7 seconds.

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

on top of the usual problem of just bouncing it badly off a corner of something, there are also the issues where with weapons like the penta... the shot bounces off allied players and friendly npcs that you have no control over and i've even had them bounce off closing doors between the time it was fired and the time it was detonated that if the door hadn't closed would have been a perfect shot. 

[koopagon]

so for the sake of one warframe we shouldn't make it so you can't one-hit kill yourself with every exploding weapon...

 

 

that i don't agree with at all. it's a trick i'm fairly certain was really an overlooked side-effect of the ability.  also, how does putting you at 10% health with no shields and knocking you down not punish you for screwing up with a weapon? yeah the initial explosion probably nailed everything within 15 feet of you, but outside that you can still get rushed and finished off. if we're smart about it perhaps it should also disable your shields and abilities for 7 seconds.

im not saying it for the sake of one warframe, im saying it for the sake of skill floor and skill ceiling.

 

what im saying is if im not careful with a high explosive, i should lose a resurrection counter for my inadequacy with the weapon and failing to learn it's blast radius if i want to continue the mission. paying a health and shield penalty is rather paltry when you consider people can manufacture thousands of health restores.

 

need to make a close range explosion? spam the key you bound health restores to, detonate explosion in face, continue shooting.

 

its like if you threw a grenade under your chair, fully expecting for it to explode and all you would have to worry about is maybe having to spend a month at the doctor's office to make sure all the splinters were successfully removed from your legs so you can get into that marathon race.

 

 

if i cannot master my own weapon, why should i be asking for an unnecessary nerf to it's skill floor and in turn cheapen the weapon just to allow more people to use it in solo games?

[pepsi-tan]

Only way I'd agree is if the self damage negation came in form of a mod, which would have to be a rare 10, or corrupted that also reduced something dramatically.

[DCypherThis13]

Another way to fix this is a minimum arming distance. I would think that 6-7.5 meters would be good enough. I don't have Torid, so I can't speak on that one. However, if Ogris and Penta won't go BOOM inside of that distance, you can't kill yourself or any one else for that matter. This would render this type of weapon useless in close quarters, but it would also solve the suicide issue.

 

I can't even begin to count the number of times that I've accidentally killed myself with Penta when a grenade bounces back and lands on top of a crate just 2 meters from me, where I can't see it.

[koopagon]

Another way to fix this is a minimum arming distance. I would think that 6-7.5 meters would be good enough. I don't have Torid, so I can't speak on that one. However, if Ogris and Penta won't go BOOM inside of that distance, you can't kill yourself or any one else for that matter. This would render this type of weapon useless in close quarters, but it would also solve the suicide issue.

 

I can't even begin to count the number of times that I've accidentally killed myself with Penta when a grenade bounces back and lands on top of a crate just 2 meters from me, where I can't see it.

what exactly are we fixing though? i personally dont see anything wrong with the weapon or the fact you can kill yourself with it.

 

and really, i cant see this as anything more than a bandaid approach to a "problem" thats pretty common sense. shoot explosive, it explodes. explosions hurt, don't detonate near yourself.

 

i cannot agree to dumbing down a weapon because its not usable by everyone.

 

 

Only way I'd agree is if the self damage negation came in form of a mod, which would have to be a rare 10, or corrupted that also reduced something dramatically.

this is the only possible way i would agree to "solve" what i see as a non-issue, using up precious mod points so you don't kill yourself.

 

also as a bonus, i tried blowing my rhino up for fun...

 

Edited January 28, 2014 by koopagon

[DCypherThis13]

I can't even begin to count the number of times that I've accidentally killed myself with Penta when a grenade bounces back and lands on top of a crate just 2 meters from me, where I can't see it.

This^

 

what exactly are we fixing though?

Tenno and enemies that jump out of nowhere... And the occasional invisible wall. I use cover a lot and from time to time another player will jump out right in front of me just as I let a rocket go.

 

A bad bounce on Penta that results in a grenade landing right next to you. They're pretty easy to miss if there's no energy trail or the room is well lit.

 

The arming distance would help reduce the fatality rate and keep them balanced. They won't go BOOM if you're too close. What's the point of killing everything in the room if everything includes you? Penta and Ogris are ranged CC weapons. As a result, there should be a minimum effective range.

[koopagon]

 

Tenno and enemies that jump out of nowhere... And the occasional invisible wall. I use cover a lot and from time to time another player will jump out right in front of me just as I let a rocket go.

 

A bad bounce on Penta that results in a grenade landing right next to you. They're pretty easy to miss if there's no energy trail or the room is well lit.

 

The arming distance would help reduce the fatality rate and keep them balanced. They won't go BOOM if you're too close. What's the point of killing everything in the room if everything includes you? Penta and Ogris are ranged CC weapons. As a result, there should be a minimum effective range.

again, i don't see a need to fix your mistake of not paying attention to the grenade or failing to make sure the grenade always lands near or hits your target and not yourself.

 

this is straight up babying you. if you're not paying attention enough to know the grenade is not where it is supposed to be and even if you do and arent abandoning cover or switching to your secondary, it is 110% your own fault you died.

 

if you cant see the trails, then you should pick an energy color that is more visible to yourself. if the lights are making it so you cant see, you either should switch to your secondary or change your video settings to make sure you can see them. i cannot agree with nerfing game mechanics because people are suiciding due to video settings or randoms in your game.

 

the penta has a remote detonation trigger, if you're detonating it and not realizing where it is it is all your fault and not the game's.

Edited January 28, 2014 by koopagon

[MushrooMars]

I'd much rather the projectile is made more visible. A dedicated GUI element (little grenade indicators like in poop-brown FPSes) that show where your armed projectiles are. This is mostly for the Penta, but the Stug and Ogris would also be good to have this on. Or just give Penta grenades a particle emitter, or at the bare bottom just make the glow effect brighter.

The drawback of using high explosives as a bloody space ninja is that you are using HIGH EXPLOSIVES. If you think this is bad as a Rhino (I'm assuming you like Rhino, OP, by your Avatar), try using a maxed out Penta with Lolki. Being on the very edge of the explosion radius will instantly incap you. If the Penta didn't have its self damage component, it would be literally the best weapon in the entire game. Heck, even with self damage it already is. 500 something DPS, with reloads, I think I calculated, not including procs or crits, generous explosion radius which can be increased by firestorm, can get headshots both from projectile bounce AND projectile explosion. Oh yeah, and the Penta's functional lack of an ammo economy.

"Bufff the Pentaaaaaa...." Said nobody ever.

[Paradox52525]

I think the self-damage you should stay as-is. Weapons like the Penta and Ogris get tons of free extra damage by virtue of the fact that they are naturally AoE.  They need a severe drawback to balance that out.  Yes, it sucks if you blow yourself up because a door closed, or someone ran in front of you, but you can almost always avoid these situations with better planning or situational awareness.  If they happen sometimes by chance... that's the price you pay and the risk you take for using an explosive weapon. 

[crisisavatar]

No, just no. If you want to use a weapon that 1 shots rooms you have to at least be somewhat competent to use it. 

 

Not to mention that you used grenades on your post, if you're hitting yourself with penta, well that's just good old Darwin doing his thing. 

Edited January 30, 2014 by crisisavatar

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

again, i don't see a need to fix your mistake of not paying attention to the grenade or failing to make sure the grenade always lands near or hits your target and not yourself.

 

this is straight up babying you. if you're not paying attention enough to know the grenade is not where it is supposed to be and even if you do and arent abandoning cover or switching to your secondary, it is 110% your own fault you died.

 

if you cant see the trails, then you should pick an energy color that is more visible to yourself. if the lights are making it so you cant see, you either should switch to your secondary or change your video settings to make sure you can see them. i cannot agree with nerfing game mechanics because people are suiciding due to video settings or randoms in your game.

 

the penta has a remote detonation trigger, if you're detonating it and not realizing where it is it is all your fault and not the game's.

there are mistakes that are a result of not paying attention, then there are mistakes that are a result of you timing your click knowing that if that friendly unit that walked/ran out in front of you didn't do that, everything would have been perfect.  there are times when yes, it's obviously your fault. you bounced it off a large box, you bounced it off frost's bubble, hell you might have even shot it and waited too long to detonate it when it bounced back off a mob's face and back into yours. but there are other situations where you just get killed for stupid reasons, such as one or both of the grenades arcing off the occasional invisible object (i've had this happen on about 3 occasions where there seemed to be an invisible block in front of a reactor on defense)  i've died as a result of it bouncing off of volt's speedy &#! on what would otherwise have been a perfect shot and i've as mentioned earlier. seen it bounce off a door that closed mid fire-arc. i have also seen the grenades with penta sometimes go invisible or bounce through walls. there's a reason i've set their color to neon green (nothing in the game seems to camouflage the bright green from saturated classic)  but the fact remains that there are a number of situations where you nail yourself with the edge of the blast or directly in the face for reasons that are either no fault of your own because another player happened to be running by or because some buggy invisible crap bounced a grenade that had no right to even exist in the first place.   honestly that your video on youtube proves you can survive reasonably well with only one warframe and then there's trinity's ability only points out that it needs balancing to affect every frame equally. if you nail yourself, yes you should be punished, that's why i basically set the bar at automatically knocking you down, killing your shields and mathing it out so you wind up with 10% health with no shields and on your &#!. you get time to recover, but not much.

on an aside, you get 4 revives a day, which i will say is actually kinda generous. were it up to me, i'd up the bleedout time considerably and cut revives to 1 a day. from what i see the only thing that modifies that is platinum resetting it for you. from that aspect, all i see is a money grab for stupid people. which if you look at some of the store packages, like mods and credits, i think if they dropped the cost of those things, they'd see a steady massive increase in their purchasing. seriously though 5 bucks for a rare core and a couple potentially rare cores? save yourself the hassle, get a week long credit booster for less, buy R5 mods from players 3 at a time.

[Phantasmo]

No. You take the brainless gun, you take your chances.

It's an inherent part of those guns balance.

[noneuklid]

I do find it kind of annoying when teammates run in front of my shot.  However, I have largely learned to stop detonating the grenade when it doesn't go to the place I want.  (I do still occasionally twitch-click both buttons at once.  Which is pretty annoying.  And I've learned that no matter how good it is at killing Corpus, I can't solo with it when I'm tired.)

 

As others have said, the risk is part of the cost of admission.

 

A hilarious, curse-spewing cost.