Noble_Cactus Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) 1%? That is abysmal. I honestly can't see that being justified, or at least it didn't receive any testing. BY keeping this thread alive, we can let the WF team know that this is a community concern. I know plenty of people are unsatisfied with the shotgun proc change that came out of nowhere. Maybe we can bring the old proc rates back, or find a middle ground to yet another "bandaid" fix. Edited February 7, 2014 by Noble_Cactus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Other than "the proc rates are broken", I can't really think of another way to make sense out of the current rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) The status effect rates on a bunch of weapons might as well be zero. I rarely see my Dreton get any status effects or at least not enough to be game changing. If they are planning on keeping the current system, it would likely require changing the status effect chance on a bunch of weapons by giving them a moderate boost. Edited February 7, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidinah Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yeah, this is not bueno. I hope this is not how they intended it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Please remember to up-vote the thread so someone that matters can see this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logicdecker Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I have same issues with my tigris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duk282 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The Detron hardly procs its radiation damage now: so much for being unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 It's funny I never even considered looking at the proc chances for my weapon because usually I one shot everything. However for those few missions that things are still alive. I had begun to wonder why my shotgun's procs aren't ticking. So I went to take a look and to my surprise look at this status chance: 67.5%! This is without any status increasing mods. When I use one it jumps to 77.1%! Yet I personally felt that the 10% jump isn't even worth the 9pts needed to equip a max shotgun savy. So why is it so high? Well the strun wraight has a massively high Status amount as you can see here: So 40% starting status chance. I at first was wondering what was giving it the extra 27.5% and found out that it was Hell's Chamber. It honestly didn't make sense to me why 120% multishot would give it an additional 27.5% Status. You would think with multishot it would double up to 80% Either way my experience with this gun is it doesn't appear to proc at all. Mostly because I one shot everything but it be nice to see the proc symbols to let me know "Hey it's working." When it doesn't kill an enemy in one shot 9 out of 10 times the impact procs and nothing else. You would think with 2 combined elements the others would proc, I surprisingly recall seeing slash proc more than any of my other elements. If there was just a way for me to dictate which ones I want to proc I'd be causing so much more chaos. lol I'll have to try and keep an eye on this more to see how many times it procs per mission and what it procs but I'm 90% sure the enemies just die and no symbol appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm seeing more slash procs more than anything else as well, maybe at a 3 : 1 or 4 : 1 ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythadragon Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) It's funny I never even considered looking at the proc chances for my weapon because usually I one shot everything. However for those few missions that things are still alive. I had begun to wonder why my shotgun's procs aren't ticking. So I went to take a look and to my surprise look at this status chance: 67.5%! This is without any status increasing mods. When I use one it jumps to 77.1%! Yet I personally felt that the 10% jump isn't even worth the 9pts needed to equip a max shotgun savy. So why is it so high? Well the strun wraight has a massively high Status amount as you can see here: So 40% starting status chance. I at first was wondering what was giving it the extra 27.5% and found out that it was Hell's Chamber. It honestly didn't make sense to me why 120% multishot would give it an additional 27.5% Status. You would think with multishot it would double up to 80% Either way my experience with this gun is it doesn't appear to proc at all. Mostly because I one shot everything but it be nice to see the proc symbols to let me know "Hey it's working." When it doesn't kill an enemy in one shot 9 out of 10 times the impact procs and nothing else. You would think with 2 combined elements the others would proc, I surprisingly recall seeing slash proc more than any of my other elements. If there was just a way for me to dictate which ones I want to proc I'd be causing so much more chaos. lol I'll have to try and keep an eye on this more to see how many times it procs per mission and what it procs but I'm 90% sure the enemies just die and no symbol appears. Explanation (probability problem): each pellet has a 0.05 status chance, or 0.95 probability of no status (1-0.05 = 0.95) strun wraith has 10 pellets per shot 0.95^10 = 0.599 probability of no status per volley 1-0.599 = 0.401 probability of at least one status per volley OR 40% due to rounded codex. With hells chamber: each volley has an average of 22 pellets per shot (10 + 10*1.2 = 22) due to 120% multishot 0.95^22 = 0.323 probability of no status per volley 1-0.323 = 0.676 probability of at least one status per volley OR 67.5% due to rounded codex This is off by 0.1%, but lets say there's probably a rounding issue in game calculations. Conclusion: Status chance listed is "chance of at least one status per volley". Edited February 11, 2014 by Pythadragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 -Snipe- They should likely just simplify shotguns and make it all proc or none. Have it only apply de-buff once, but damage calculation for things like gas effect on total damage or number of shots that hit the target. It's currently not working properly because targets can die with only a fraction of the pellets hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pythadragon Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 They should likely just simplify shotguns and make it all proc or none. Have it only apply de-buff once, but damage calculation for things like gas effect on total damage or number of shots that hit the target. It's currently not working properly because targets can die with only a fraction of the pellets hitting. If targets are dying with only a fraction of the pellets hitting that just means the shotgun is doing so much damage that status chance doesn't matter.. Having it be by pellet makes things more consistent for the user. I'd rather expect at least one status (like blast knockdown) 2/3rds of the time every volley (if every pellet hits, of course) rather than all pellets having a status only 5% of the time. Not sure how damage calculations for gas effect and the like work, so I can't comment on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) -Snipe- The target dying matters with gas, blast, and I think the electrocution effects. Also, it loses any of its CC effect that might be gained from shooting into a group due to how abysmal the chance are for each pellet. I forgot the exact number, but the damage done is based off a percentage of the displayed hit value (head shots matter). Edited February 8, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 If targets are dying with only a fraction of the pellets hitting that just means the shotgun is doing so much damage that status chance doesn't matter.. Having it be by pellet makes things more consistent for the user. I'd rather expect at least one status (like blast knockdown) 2/3rds of the time every volley (if every pellet hits, of course) rather than all pellets having a status only 5% of the time. Not sure how damage calculations for gas effect and the like work, so I can't comment on that. That's the other confusing thing. I saw in another thread where a dev (I forget who) mentioned that crits won't tick if the shots do enough damage to kill an enemy. Regardless how high you get the crit chance. This creates the illusion that your mod setup isn't working which honestly I feel is a bad way of doing it. Even if the enemy dies I'd love to see the procs and crits show up. I'd love to see the high damage numbers that the full volley of my shotgun does even if it was on a lvl 1 grineer unit. To see like twenty 500s pop up around them is just so awesome and gives you that sense of power that you would expect from modding up your weapons so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidinah Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I do not like this status change. I like having access to the literal coolest part of Damage 2.0. DE's stance should not be "Yeah, we have this new proc system that is super cool. But guess what? A whole weapon group that you enjoy is not allowed to do the new cool stuff! If you like shotguns you should get out!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delephantz Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think the damage display for shotgun types should be borderlands style, (Damage per pellet) x (Number of pellets per shot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaidinah Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I think the damage display for shotgun types should be borderlands style, (Damage per pellet) x (Number of pellets per shot) I like that idea! But perhaps keep the total on the side in parentheses? Edited February 9, 2014 by Kaidinah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think the damage display for shotgun types should be borderlands style, (Damage per pellet) x (Number of pellets per shot) Not a bad idea. I don't know why it's not like that already, to be honest. It makes the damage values much more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAimbot Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 You... you just contradicted yourself in two sentences. The thing is, proc rate on the Drak is unnaturally low right now. Like, really, really low. Not even physical procs occur more than once every three missions or so. I didn't bother trying the Detron today, though I do need to get rid of that Lv22 Strun that's been rotting in my inventory for a while now. Dunno how it performed proc-wise before, though. I didn't contradict myself. What I meant was that the Status chance before was not what DE intended (or they changed their mind about how it should work; not important), and as a result of this change the Status chance is lower than before. If that's a problem, they should leave the change in and increase the Status chance, not revert the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I just would love to see more things proc instead of impact. Can we get that at least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think the damage display for shotgun types should be borderlands style, (Damage per pellet) x (Number of pellets per shot) I like that idea! But perhaps keep the total on the side in parentheses? I can dig this. We could really use just better representation of the weapon stats in general. Anyway, I think I saw 2 toxic procs today from 1 volley! Hooray... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I didn't contradict myself. What I meant was that the Status chance before was not what DE intended (or they changed their mind about how it should work; not important), and as a result of this change the Status chance is lower than before. If that's a problem, they should leave the change in and increase the Status chance, not revert the change. Oh, I see. For some reason I read your post like three times and it didn't register in my mind. S'all good now. Then again, I suppose it doesn't matter how other shotguns perform when we have the Phage running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Phage #2 weapon in the game after Burston Prime. Honestly this change along with having a lot of shotguns falling off in effectiveness right when a new one is released just screams of serious power creep. The fact that the fastest way to get Phage is with plat just leaves a very sour taste in my mouth, almost makes it seem like this was deliberate in order to make the phage even more appealing. Because it clearly needed to be more appealing than it already was at first glance. I'm really hoping this isn't the case but boy does it sure look that way. It has more than 2X the sustained DPS of Boar Prime. Edited February 9, 2014 by jinsaotomex4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Took my Viral/Fire Sobek through a T3 exterminate today and didn't see a single proc even though the menu lists it as sixty-something percent. Something *is* seriously wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsaotomex4 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Poor Sobek, was a TTK beast too despite the terrible reload speed and it definitely made me enjoy shotguns in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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