Morec0 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Agreed, I LOVE the kind of depth this adds to both the Orokin and the Tenno. And to all of those who say anything along the lines of "desperate time call for desperate measures": THEY WERE CHILDREN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilKam Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I read the lore and took it for what it was. "We didn't...that would be a breach of protocol." Those 'children' weren't there because the Orokin put them there (and you're assuming those officials in charge in that room are Orokin and not humanoids, no one said Orokin had to govern every little thing personally), they were made manifest there. How or why, we won't know until later, when Scott invents more canon. This comment sums it all up. Only one person is named in Ember's entry. We don't know what military organization these characters belonged to. We don't know who any of them are. They could be Orokin. They could be Corpus, hell, for all the info we've been given, they could have been French. So far nothing states that other organizations never existed. Taken as a whole, we don't even know if this story fit into the timeline when the Orokin empire was even an interplanetary power. All we know from Ember's lore entry is this: A ship went missing, and it belonged to some unknown and unidentified group. That ship went into another dimension, but was later located by a search team from said unknown group. Unknown Group maintains a policy of quarantine regarding potential dimensional finds. When found, that ship contained children, and at least one team member was burned, likely because of breaking quarantine. Leaders of that group publicly maintain that children are not put on starships. Kaleen, after admitting to breaking quarantine, was led out of the briefing room. As punishment for breaking quarantine? We don't know what happened. I believe she was forced to play Daikatana. Edited February 9, 2014 by EvilKam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoenix Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Well argued, and good point, EvilKam - we don't know if the people Kaleen was talking to are the Orokin or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krjal Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Good summary of the 'facts' we've got so far, EvilKam. I'm assuming, personally, that Kaleen and the organisation of the Old Woman were Orokin for the moment. The Orokin were a whole civilisation and I think that although we see them as being nigh-on all-powerful a few thousand years down the track they still would've had foot soldiers and administrators like Kaleen. She was just unfortunate enough to have to answer to her superiors after getting caught up in something she maybe would've rather avoided. Speaking of Kaleen, she has a great strength of character expressing her concern in the face of the Old Woman, for the children after getting burnt so badly (possibly by one of the children) just in discovering them. I think I mean to say that if the Tenno are the betrayers as some like to name them then it might just be the Orokin oligarchy they were... upset with. Edited February 9, 2014 by Krjal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilKam Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Realized I missed a point or two. Updated my post with the following edits: Kaleen, after admitting to breaking quarantine, was led out of the briefing room. As punishment for breaking quarantine? We don't know what happened. I believe she was forced to play Daikatana. And Oriklein, that's just like... your opinion, man. Upvote for Big Lebowski reference. Edited February 9, 2014 by EvilKam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventSign Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sometimes I feel like I enjoy talking about the story more than actually playing the game...it really makes you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriKlein Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I didn't mis-comprehend, OriKlein. But it's ok, I wish you luck searching for a forest that better suits your sense of practical fun. I need not search. I have the game, I play it, it is practical and fun. There are also some forums around here which make for interesting leisure. Adding eloquence to "that dont count cuz I say so" doesn't make your case, when your arguments against exploring the implications of the lore officially released thus far is "it dont count lol." Your assertions are false. It doesn't count because, defacto, DE (Scott) says so. I am irrelevant to the equation. Whatever I say is equal to whatever you, or anyone else except DE, say and both are as invalid since, and that is also exactly the point, it is not what DE say. You cannot explore the implications because you have not been given sufficient material to draw conclusions or establish circumstances out of. All you can do is speculate in a large vacuum that will be later filled with material by the official author, likely completely eradicating anything you attempt to quasi-establish. And Oriklein, that's just like... your opinion, man. As stated above, it is not. And you shouldn't drink, drive and smoke in a car without working windows, dude. Abide. I believe she was forced to play Daikatana. John Romero has made her his...and she was forced to... Best Regards, Edited February 9, 2014 by OriKlein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I wonder if the way they are releasing this information in the codex is the lost memories of the Tenno are returning and are returning in the order that the author wishes. Such as Excalibur being the first to remember and now Ember being the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboticApplesWithLasers Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 you guys say the ones who stayed sane are tenno, I'm sorry but the tenno don;t seem sane to me. Yes they can function, but only as killing machines who feel nothing of there countless murders. they are silent with the exception of banshee and Valkyr, these traits show no evidence of sanity, the tenno are Inhuman they don't behave like us and they don't see a need to. they follow orders from a mysterious woman without questioning it. Humans Think more than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeejayPwny Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Snip And you need not trample upon what others enjoy. There is no harm that can come from simple speculation. You are right in claiming we have little information, but we have more than ample amounts for the purpose of speculating. It isn't about being right or wrong, it's about having fun looking at the information we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 you guys say the ones who stayed sane are tenno, I'm sorry but the tenno don;t seem sane to me. Yes they can function, but only as killing machines who feel nothing of there countless murders. they are silent with the exception of banshee and Valkyr, these traits show no evidence of sanity, the tenno are Inhuman they don't behave like us and they don't see a need to. they follow orders from a mysterious woman without questioning it. Humans Think more than this You haven't been outdoors have you? You haven't seen this generation growing up on youtube have you? You haven't met those guys that hang out on the corner for weeks have you? You haven't gone to Texas have you? Yea.... we totally be like the Tenno if it wasn't for the government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) you guys say the ones who stayed sane are tenno, I'm sorry but the tenno don;t seem sane to me. Yes they can function, but only as killing machines who feel nothing of there countless murders. they are silent with the exception of banshee and Valkyr, these traits show no evidence of sanity, the tenno are Inhuman they don't behave like us and they don't see a need to. they follow orders from a mysterious woman without questioning it. Humans Think more than this Except they've demonstrated the ability to work together (see the first Warframe trailer to the clearest example of this, and any other trailer for further example) and they also have demonstrated compassion for their own - "The Profit" trailer shows them going to rescue the captive Mag. Teamwork and Compassion, in my opinion, completely debunks them as being "inhuman" as well as puts cracks in the idea that they aren't sane. You haven't been outdoors have you? You haven't seen this generation growing up on youtube have you? You haven't met those guys that hang out on the corner for weeks have you? You haven't gone to Texas have you? Yea.... we totally be like the Tenno if it wasn't for the government... That's going a bit far, I think. What people are willing to say and do on the internet and what a few nutcases in certain parts of the world do doesn't speak for everyone. While I'm not saying that without government those people that WOULD be malicious wouldn't be even more rampant in their acts if we didn't have a government, I don't believe humans, without an overseeing force, would be sociopathic homicidal monsters 24/7. Edited February 9, 2014 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Have to admit after I read that lore I immediately questioned what the Orokin actually were, stood for, and were willing to do. I think I agree but we need more info on the Sentients' near wiping out humanity first. Just for some perspective. edit. Just a note, I believe the Orokin created and modified the technocyte virus to drive off (and maybe kill off) the Sentients and the Golem (Lephantis) was a weaponised form of the TCV specifically to do that. It also seems that our 'frames are created using the TCV, another form of weaponising a crazy nano virus. I think they were prepared to go to any lengths. Also, nano viruses never end well. Lets hope reality learns from these future histories :p sentient adj.adjective Having sense perception; conscious. Experiencing sensation or feeling. They talk about in excal's codex about the sentients using the orokin's tech against them no matter how advanced. Who is to say that the "Sentients" are even alive. they could be advanced AI that gained self awareness as no technology seemed to work against them but a semi organic virus does. Also on your part about nano virus never ending well. It is not a matter of if it will happen, it is a matter of when it will happen. Humanity is a slave to its baser instincts, the drive to control and dominate. History has shown time and again humanities willingness to kill itself. In my opinion, we are not as advanced as we would like to believe lol. Just hope it doesn't happen in our life time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrisonStewart Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) But I like fighting hordes of monsters with ninja reflexes :c Edited February 9, 2014 by GarrisonStewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hashinshin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 So in writing people typically repeat concepts if they mean to foreshadow with them. Considering we're being called betrayers at every turn I think it's pretty clear that the Lotus is a renegade Corpus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 So in writing people typically repeat concepts if they mean to foreshadow with them. Considering we're being called betrayers at every turn I think it's pretty clear that the Lotus is a renegade Corpus. or she is a sentient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hashinshin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 or she is a sentient Either or. The point is that at some point in the future we're going to get the startling realization that the Lotus isn't a good person and that that scoundrel Darvo is actually the good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaresin Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Either or. The point is that at some point in the future we're going to get the startling realization that the Lotus isn't a good person and that that scoundrel Darvo is actually the good one. Well if she is a sentient (I'm betting they are a self aware AI hence the immunity to all orokin tech), the first answer that would help decide if they were indeed good or bad would be what truly caused the war? A fight to self identity or a fight to break free of the iron grasp of the orokin empire? If the tenno betrayed the orokin and are now on a mission for balance, could the orokin have been upsetting the balance by conquering other races in their dominion of the galaxy? So many questions....so many different ways it could go. Its like reading the old goosebumps books that let you pick how the book ends depending on your decision. (I always had an odd ending the first time). Edited February 9, 2014 by Zaresin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuFi0 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Lotus is Kaleen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nainsidh Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 - The Orokin empire, which included humans, had a long and rigid tradition of using mind control tech to keep the populace stable and not notice how servile they are. Yep, its called "television"... ;) As for the "Sentients", the name alone implies that them being sentient is the defining characteristic of that race, and its highly unusual. You don't name a hostile race like that without a very good reason. So they are sentient, capable of subverting and using everything the Orokin develop to fight them, and were obviously winning the war. Superhightech was apparently useless against them, as only the Tenno, armed "the old way, with gun and blade", where able to beat them back. Hmmmmm... Am i the only one who thinks about Stargate Replicators now? The advanced humanoid versions were definitely sentient, they pretty much assimilated everything the Asgard came up with to fight them, advanced energy weapons were useless, and the most effective weapons to fight them turned out to be Earths primitive slugthrowers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelso Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Today is the first time I started to read the Lore, and it's awesome! I really want to know more about the Tenno and Orokin era. I also hope to see more Lore about all the different Warframes, How they became. Edited February 9, 2014 by Kelso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlove108 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 That's going a bit far, I think. What people are willing to say and do on the internet and what a few nutcases in certain parts of the world do doesn't speak for everyone. While I'm not saying that without government those people that WOULD be malicious wouldn't be even more rampant in their acts if we didn't have a government, I don't believe humans, without an overseeing force, would be sociopathic homicidal monsters 24/7. No.. I am not going far. Just take a look at all the 3rd world countries and you can see the true nature of mankind. Take a look back to the Middle Ages and how life was then. How they ruthelessly torture people and killed others over things so trivial. How wars were so easily fought. We as a people have come a long way but not far enough to believe that we'll never revert back into such beings. With a free liscense to kill all enemies and in any fashion you please, you don't think that humans would become the same thing? That we don't have the capacity to be like the Tenno? All in their gore and glory? What about mercenaries in the real world? Do you think they are emotionless killing machines without the ability to think? No.. mercenaries in the real world think and are very smart in how they do their jobs because it's how they stay alive to keep doing their jobs. There's no such thing as a mindless killing machine because it wouldn't be killing for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ground.Zero Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 And you need not trample upon what others enjoy. There is no harm that can come from simple speculation. You are right in claiming we have little information, but we have more than ample amounts for the purpose of speculating. It isn't about being right or wrong, it's about having fun looking at the information we have. This guy knows what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) -Read Ember´s Codex entry -Come back to this thread -? -PROFIT So idk about you guys,but I think a blood filled revolution/uprising IS apropriate considering they put us into "conduits" and make us fight a horrible,almost unbeatable enemy when we were children. The Orokin seemed like huge jerkbags, but I doubt they had proto-Tenno children fight initially. The Ember kids were probably further tests to see how to make new Tenno. Excal was the first, after all, and I doubt a bunch of terrified children would make effective soldiers against an enemy apparently as facestompingly deadly as the Sentients. Also,this is just speculation on my end,but I would guess the "Warframe-ification" is a pretty painfull and probably IREVERTIBLE process In the sense that the wearer bonds to the suit? I don't think so, given the new cryopod dudes and the fact that we can research new frames. Also Valkyr. It's probably irreversible in the sense that once you've been touched by the void, you probably won't ever be the same though. Either or. The point is that at some point in the future we're going to get the startling realization that the Lotus isn't a good person and that that scoundrel Darvo is actually the good one. Hey, we already know Darbro is the good one. As punishment for breaking quarantine? We don't know what happened. I believe she was forced to play Daikatana. Those monsters. Orokin confirmed for ultimate evil. Edited February 9, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvernik Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) I think drawing in from hayden tenno and creating excalibur was a huge first step for the orokin in their struggle, so they tried "replicating what happened to excalibur" but this time with children so they could be trained and refined into more powerful warriors, so they send ships back into the void with children infected with the TCV so see if they could get more than 1 survivor and if they did maybe more "variations" wold also come out. SO "Tenno" where ripped away from their families, thrown onto a ship, infected with a virus and sent into the void. Expendable science experiments that if ultimately successful be given weapons and sent to slaughter. I don't know about you guys but if it was me I'd want some sweet revenge.. Edited February 9, 2014 by marvernik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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