Opinion From A First-Day Player

[zyl0x]

You're right, I did quit. You know why I quit? Because this is a game - a form of entertainment. It is not college, it is not a job, it's not a project I've been working on, it's just a game. I have plenty of other games to spend my time on instead. Other games that are complete, by the way. I'm not being paid to test this game, so if it becomes a chore, I will find something else to spend my time on. XCOM, MechWarrior Online, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress, FTL... I have plenty of other things on which to spend the limited amount of free time I have. I have a house, a job, and other responsibilities and hobbies. And I didn't just quit - I came to the forums to post my feedback, because the game is in beta and this may or may not be the intended reaction that the developers are looking for. I absolutely guarantee a significant majority of your new players are not botherting to do even that.

I'm not sure where all this macho, "quitting is for losers", alpha-male S#&$ is coming from lately, but it is becoming increasingly tiring to see. This is a video game. If the developer is trying to create "Dark Souls Online", then by all means, they have every right to ignore my comment and I will not be offended in the least. But if they're trying to attract a varying and diverse group of players, then they should probably hear something other than the sound of fanboy elitists slurping away at their metaphorical penises.

[Venarge]

Update 7 newbie, chose loki first, solo'd all of mercury, exception being the boss because I forgot to turn on private, no failed missions.

Big thing I've noticed is that new players tend to say "I'VE GOT A KATANA I'M GONNA SLICE PEOPLE" and charge in headfirst, mash away with E when a rifle does waaaaaay more damage at the start (atleast have the deceny to do a charge, way more powerful).

I saw I was squishy, but I also saw I was fast, so what did I do? Run, run a **** ton. toss out Decoy and run in the opposite direction, put as much distance between me and the enemy while pelting them with bullets. Energy drops are generous and at those low levels anything with range can't hit the broad side of a barn, and they don't shoot often, Infected are probably the only thing that don't get any less or more sophisticated with difficulty (they just become bullet sponges) and then all you need is distance and running space, all of which Loki can create. While Excalibur can slice througha horde, Loki can make the entire horde bunch up around a decoy as he picks them off with headshots.

While things can spawn behind you, usually it is acutally just infected you didn't clear out taht are just attractd to the sound of gunfire and finally managed to path their way to you. Even then, I've accomplished some solo infected missions (15 to 25 range)by just flat out running, not killing everyone in the room, just navigating door to door, I'm ****ing Loki, I'm a speedster, excuse me while I cloak (or decoy, decoy serve the same purpose, lasts longer, costs less) , run towards the objective, melee swipe a monster or a cnaister for energy and repeat.

This is actually, quite refreshingly a game that doesn't require you to murder everyone. Stay mobile, you'll live. That simple.

Thats it.

I still cant understand why OP complains about the infected. I mean. The enemy is heading straight forward to you to get in melee range. What could that possibly mean? Yeah, they do a lot of damage in melee.... Its like trying to hunt a bunch of lions with a knife instead of a gun to ensure distance between player and enemy.... And this has nothing to do with being new or something. Thats simple logic. And people dont need a tutorial to jump on a crate to be safe from enemies, logic as well..... Again, not the enemys or the game are the problem here.

[zyl0x]

Thats it.

I still cant understand why OP complains about the infected. I mean. The enemy is heading straight forward to you to get in melee range. What could that possibly mean? Yeah, they do a lot of damage in melee.... Its like trying to hunt a bunch of lions with a knife instead of a gun to ensure distance between player and enemy.... And this has nothing to do with being new or something. Thats simple logic. And people dont need a tutorial to jump on a crate to be safe from enemies, logic as well..... Again, not the enemys or the game are the problem here.

Sorry, I must have missed the part in my post where I said I was melee only. Could you please explain to me the basis of your assumptions? I seem to be getting a lot of replies containing the same kind of idea - that I'm some kind of idiot who has never played a video game before, or that hasn't tried a variety of different tactics.

[Venarge]

Sorry, I must have missed the part in my post where I said I was melee only. Could you please explain to me the basis of your assumptions? I seem to be getting a lot of replies containing the same kind of idea - that I'm some kind of idiot who has never played a video game before, or that hasn't tried a variety of different tactics.

"The first few times I died by coming out of a air vent into the first group of enemies, which were some kind of dog-like alien. Killed me immediately"

So there are 2 reasons for this:

1: You tried to melee the enemy

2: You died because you didnt moved to a higher point or just stood at the same point while shooting....

Loki is the fastest frame, besides ash, so it should be nearly impossible for them to reach you that easily....

And even if they did. you are the cloak and duplicate guy. Nothing should harm you in any way

Edited March 26, 2013 by Venarge

[zyl0x]

"The first few times I died by coming out of a air vent into the first group of enemies, which were some kind of dog-like alien. Killed me immediately"

So there are 2 reasons for this:

1: You tried to melee the enemy

2: You died because you didnt moved to a higher point or just stood at the same point while shooting....

Loki is the fastest frame, besides ash, so it should be nearly impossible for them to reach you that easily....

And even if they did. you are the cloak and duplicate guy. Nothing should harm you in any way

No. Wrong.

This is what happened: I entered the mission. Followed the quest marker to a vent blocked by a fan blade. Shot out the fan blade. Went into the vent. Walked through the vent until I reached the end of the vent shaft. The vent shaft ended in a drop. Dropped out of the vent into a group of dogs. Died.

Stop attributing alternate meanings to the words I choose to use. I take a lot of time and effort to choose the right words to convey my thoughts, and it's very annoying to have other people read them and start using, to quote Penny Arcade, this "definition two, bullS#&$".

[Zelmanov]

dropping into a vent full of chargers is unfortunate, and unlucky, considering the random nature of the game with its progressively generated rooms and spawned enemies, it can put you in nigh impossible situations. Though I doubt subsequent tries put you int aht same exact same situation multiple times, and if it did, would you have learned to drop a decoy into the room first, see if any enemies attacked it? or enter the room while cloaked

casting abilities give invincibility frames (thank god) so even if you do get mobbed, cast invis and jump out and run. Without any video of your gameplay / playstyle it is hard to tell.

I applied Left 4 Dead logic when fighting infected, they keep spawning, killing is a means to create breathing room, not anihilate everything in the level.

but Also I'm the type of gamer that plays LOZ 3 heart runs for fun and defaults max difficulty level available for every game . That is not to say I'm a better gamer, I'm saying that I can tolerate getting my &#! handed to me multiple times more (Like I did taking on and clearing Earth right after Venus, sahme on me for thinking I could work from mercury outwards) than a -lot- of other people

Edited March 26, 2013 by Zelmanov

[Venarge]

This is what happened: I entered the mission. Followed the quest marker to a vent blocked by a fan blade. Shot out the fan blade. Went into the vent. Walked through the vent until I reached the end of the vent shaft. The vent shaft ended in a drop. Dropped out of the vent into a group of dogs. Died.

So you jump out of a vent without looking what awaits you at the bottom..... And you still wonder why you died?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Venarge

[SoulEchelon]

You're right, I did quit. You know why I quit? Because this is a game - a form of entertainment. It is not college, it is not a job, it's not a project I've been working on, it's just a game. I have plenty of other games to spend my time on instead. Other games that are complete, by the way. I'm not being paid to test this game, so if it becomes a chore, I will find something else to spend my time on. XCOM, MechWarrior Online, Skyrim, Dwarf Fortress, FTL... I have plenty of other things on which to spend the limited amount of free time I have. I have a house, a job, and other responsibilities and hobbies. And I didn't just quit - I came to the forums to post my feedback, because the game is in beta and this may or may not be the intended reaction that the developers are looking for. I absolutely guarantee a significant majority of your new players are not botherting to do even that.

I'm not sure where all this macho, "quitting is for losers", alpha-male S#&$ is coming from lately, but it is becoming increasingly tiring to see. This is a video game. If the developer is trying to create "Dark Souls Online", then by all means, they have every right to ignore my comment and I will not be offended in the least. But if they're trying to attract a varying and diverse group of players, then they should probably hear something other than the sound of fanboy elitists slurping away at their metaphorical penises.

You came to this forum. You whined about how hard this game was after losing ONCE in a mission that wasn't supposed to be soloed with a frame that's mainly SUPPORT and not DIRECT DAMAGE. There is no machismo going on here. There is no "alpha male" going on here. I'm just telling it like it is, and you can't handle it. Go play those other games, if you can't handle losing just once in this one.

As a very wise man once said - If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. So either stay and stand the heat, or get out and let us enjoy our "incomplete" game (btw, it's open beta. This is the first iteration of this game - it didn't come from overseas. Of course it's incomplete.)

Edit: Lmao. Didn't look before you leaped, and you blamed the game. *rolls eyes*

Edited March 26, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[zyl0x]

Maybe it is odd, or unlikely to happen on the first two or three rounds, but it did. As I said however, that is not what made me stop playing, so you should be able to infer that I got past that obstacle. Despite what a lot of the other posters have been implying and assuming about my playstyle, I did change my tactics up quite frequently, in a desperate attempt to get through the level.

For one thing, you have been the first person to tell me that the infected spawn non-stop throughout the entire level. If I had been told that in-game, I probably would have saved a lot of time by not trying to syphon-off smaller groups from rooms and killing them on my own terms. What's the point of doing that if by the time you get back, those creatures have re-spawned, right?

I tried a lot of different tactics - melee-only, sneaking past groups, distracting and dividing, running-and-gunning, sniping from higher ground... I tried all of those. It seems that this just makes me a bad person for some reason? The worst part about all of this is that I get wildly inconsistent advice from the posters in this topic, and also across other topics in the forums.

Some people say you should just run through the whole mission (which I tried by the way - didn't work.) But then other people say that running through the whole thing is stupid.

Others say you should stand on a rock, or do some other kind of terrain exploit (which I have other problems with.) Obviously other people disagree with that tactic, especially since an upgrade to enemy AI and behavior would make such a tactic obsolete.

Still others say you should just kite the enemies around, running-and-gunning (which I also tried - ran out of ammunition since the enemies don't drop enough bullets for the gun I am using). But then other players say it's a waste of time to run around, and that you should be stealthing and meleeing them since you get an invisibility damage bonus. Even more players then say that trying to melee the infected is a stupid idea.

Do you see my problem here?

Do you think maybe this might be causing some confusion for people, especially new players, and extra-especially players who do not have native-level experience with the English language?

[zyl0x]

You came to this forum. You whined about how hard this game was after losing ONCE in a mission that wasn't supposed to be soloed with a frame that's mainly SUPPORT and not DIRECT DAMAGE. There is no machismo going on here. There is no "alpha male" going on here. I'm just telling it like it is, and you can't handle it. Go play those other games, if you can't handle losing just once in this one.

As a very wise man once said - If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. So either stay and stand the heat, or get out and let us enjoy our "incomplete" game (btw, it's open beta. This is the first iteration of this game - it didn't come from overseas. Of course it's incomplete.)

Edit: Lmao. Didn't look before you leaped, and you blamed the game. *rolls eyes*

My only response left to you, SoulEchelon, is that you're an A******. I have nothing more to say to you, and I have no more interest in reading any more of your posts. Time to just move on to the next thread and give this one a rest.

[SoulEchelon]

Maybe it is odd, or unlikely to happen on the first two or three rounds, but it did. As I said however, that is not what made me stop playing, so you should be able to infer that I got past that obstacle. Despite what a lot of the other posters have been implying and assuming about my playstyle, I did change my tactics up quite frequently, in a desperate attempt to get through the level.

For one thing, you have been the first person to tell me that the infected spawn non-stop throughout the entire level. If I had been told that in-game, I probably would have saved a lot of time by not trying to syphon-off smaller groups from rooms and killing them on my own terms. What's the point of doing that if by the time you get back, those creatures have re-spawned, right?

I tried a lot of different tactics - melee-only, sneaking past groups, distracting and dividing, running-and-gunning, sniping from higher ground... I tried all of those. It seems that this just makes me a bad person for some reason? The worst part about all of this is that I get wildly inconsistent advice from the posters in this topic, and also across other topics in the forums.

Some people say you should just run through the whole mission (which I tried by the way - didn't work.) But then other people say that running through the whole thing is stupid.

Others say you should stand on a rock, or do some other kind of terrain exploit (which I have other problems with.) Obviously other people disagree with that tactic, especially since an upgrade to enemy AI and behavior would make such a tactic obsolete.

Still others say you should just kite the enemies around, running-and-gunning (which I also tried - ran out of ammunition since the enemies don't drop enough bullets for the gun I am using). But then other players say it's a waste of time to run around, and that you should be stealthing and meleeing them since you get an invisibility damage bonus. Even more players then say that trying to melee the infected is a stupid idea.

Do you see my problem here?

Do you think maybe this might be causing some confusion for people, especially new players, and extra-especially players who do not have native-level experience with the English language?

Why didn't you just say that in the first place? Your first post and subsequent posts had you whining about the game being hard and you quitting over one mission. If you had come to this forum with a more open mind, then maybe me and quite a few others wouldn't be rolling their eyes at you.

And you completely disreguarded one tip many people have told you to do: Go through that mission with a -group-. It's simple. Just keep the big blue button at the top on "Online" and click the node. Either you'll get popped into a current game there, or it'll start the game and you can wait until others join. With the new influx of other newcomers, it won't take long.

Edit: Direct insults can be reported. First and final warning.

Edited March 26, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Zelmanov]

If anything the variance in approaches is an indicator of how many playstyles are supported. I personally can't imagine sitting still for a moment in a game like this, every time I try I get turned into swiss cheese, but otehr people can stand on rocks and kll everyone. the thing aout running around is that it sacrifices drops for level completion, if you want drops, you should kill everything that moves.but if you want the level completed, run, especially against infected since they are too slow for Loki.

And these are all -solo- options anyway. you can run it in a group easily, especally since everyone and their mother is farming Venus and Mercury for low level mods due to the stats reset.

And your plan to slowly siphon them off, it works just if you kill too slowly more spawn on top of your head before you can make any valid progress. I ignored anything with theword "Ancient" in it when I solo'd those missions because they eat too many bullets to be wothwhile.

I dunno about you but I grew up with absurdly paced shooters like quake, team fortres, Tribes. I just find it hard to imagine that someone who claims competency, and a penchant for more "out there games" (dwarf fortress is too much for me) could ahve so much trouble on the mercury missions, You seemed to have handled the Grineer just fine.

I can probably agree that this game gives a very bad first impression of your relative power level to your surroundings. They build you up as one of the last few self proclaimed bad***** of the universe and then have your behind handed to you promptly afterwards, but this game seems to reward the quick thinking and the flexible, and I mean that in the sense that at low levels, there is rarely a good time where "Melee only" is a good idea, all your mobility, weapons and abilities are to work in synergy with eachother.

sometimes while dropping a decoy, for example, I'd use that moment to run in and charge slash some people down for the sake of saving ammo. my "Kite and keep distance strategy" fluidly became a "misdirect and stab" strat.

What loki lacks in instant "I win" buttons like RHino's charge/stompe or excaliburs slash dash etc etc is that Loki should never, ever ever be in an engagement that he did not choose for himself. That means turning a ranged shoot off into a melee or a stationary siege into a run and gun around the room. It is the reason why I chose him, because I assume I'd get killed with any of the other warframes if I didn't ahve te option to disappaear at will and lick my wounds. To be honest, if you are steadfast in soloing these levels, either because you beleive you should or just to prove a point about how unfiendly the game is, try a different warframe, start the tutorial over and choose volt or excalibur, the time lost is nothing major.

[Kobalt]

Hello zyl0c,

This is quite the interesting thread you have going here. I'll say that I do agree with you in the sense that the game has no real lead-in to the nature of each of the factions. Like you've noted yourself though this game is a work in progress...That aside, a lot of people have played this game through and had a very different experience than you did. I'm thinking that maybe this just wasn't your game!

I believe that the attitude of your responses are what triggered the "toxic" replies you got. If you look back to the beginning of the thread, you'll find that you got one negative reply followed by several tips and offers to help. Your responses to several of these were dismissive at best. You then proceeded to make negative generalization about a community from the representation of a fraction of it's tennant's...Mind you that a good chunk of them were positive or offering help. What kind of response did you expect to something so inflammatory?

You did after all make this post on a forum board. You could've just sent DE an e-mail if you didn't want to hear back from other players. This is a coop game, if you didn't/don't intend on cooperating with people, why did you pick it up? You knew the game was in beta, have you ever beta tested a game before? I only ask because it doesn't seem like you have and I don't mean that in an insulting way. The tone of what you have written shows your frustration, but not in a very constructive manner. Beta testing is about making improvements and giving good constructive, actionable feedback. This reads a lot more like a complaint/rallying cry to cause discord.

Though you didn't ask, I will give you one piece of advice! If you really want to be heard, and it sounds like you do...Rewrite this in a contructive manner. Play the game a littler bit more, just enough to understand what it is you need to to get through the mission you got stuck at. Go over your original experience again, then ask yourself as a new player what would they have had to do to make it so that you never would've been so frustrated [iE: maybe some indication that you were being stunned or a lead-in stage with less mobs to allow you to pick up thier properties]. Then write out a suggestion as to how they could improve on the game so that a player like yourself wouldn't be turned away by the experience.

Realistically, you do understand that this is a beta and that by playing it you have agreed to sample/test their game...Paid or not. You obviously came here and had an opinion about something you saw as a problem. If you came to sample and found the game lacking, then like I said earlier maybe this isn't the game for you. There are some players who will agree with you, but you can be certain that this game has hundreds of active players who do enjoy the game. The tone of responses is insulting to people who do enjoy the game and don't see the problem that you do.

Hopefully this helps!

Edited March 26, 2013 by Kobalt

[zyl0x]

I did not choose to solo that mission for any particular reason. My very first match on the very first mission was public, because that was the default and I had no reason to change it. The netcode was absolutely atrocious, and I spent most of the time trying to figure out where the enemies were really at. Wasn't difficult by any stretch of the imagination - just very annoying. Unfortunately, that game ended in a "host timed out", and so did my other two attempts, so I went solo. After failing at the infected mission ten or so times, I tried going back to public, but people would join, run ahead into the infected, run back, and disconnect. I had no way of telling whether the disconnects were intentional or not, but after about twenty minutes of that, I had no real choice of running solo or not - it's the only mode that would work. That's why I came here to report the issue. Without a chat or lobby system, it seems ridiculous for people to keep telling me to run with a group. There's no way for me to form one except with random people, who are unreliable at worst, and just unable to stay connected at best.

[zyl0x]

You know what? Maybe you're all right - this game isn't for me. Too bad since the play style, character designs, and general feel of the game all appeal to me. A lot of you seem to think that it's just "too hard" for me, and maybe that's the case too. Just wanted someone official to see it and take note. As I've uninstalled the game, and apparently can't seem to make a thought that isn't inflammatory in some way, I suppose I'll gracefully bow out of the discussion as well.

All the luck to those of you who are enjoying the game just the way it is.

[RawGritz]

Without a chat or lobby system, it seems ridiculous for people to keep telling me to run with a group. There's no way for me to form one except with random people, who are unreliable at worst, and just unable to stay connected at best.

I know he said he left but WTF?!?! No way to group up? That's one of the reason you left as well. A little UI exploration would have gone a long way for the OP.

I agree there should be a better series of starter challenges that don't require revive if failed. And an obstacle course challenge to teach basice mobility and parkour-style movement mechanics. A NPC tenno showing you the ropes could also help folks immediately see how cool things CAN be.

[CosyPigeon]

I think this thread would suggest that this game could really use a more in depth tutorial. It would be helpfull to new players if, during the opening tutorial with lotus, they got shown a variety of enemies (not just Grineer) so that they could make a more informed decision about what sort of starter warframe they should pick, it would also help if they had the starter warframes stat's available (rather than just vague descriptions) so that people can see the more basic advantages of each frame rather than just the abilites (a new player isn't going to know that loki has low hp and sheild but high movement speed and energy for example).

Hopefully such a thing will be implemented in the future.

[FateZero]

I do like how Vindictus set up their character selection and skills. When you click on a skill it shows a video of the skill in action and when you are at the character selection screen, it shows a video that gives an overview about the weapons the character uses and what that character specializes in.

Maybe show the three starter frames and when you click on it, it will have a video (be it DE made or Fan Made) that showcases it's skills and has commentary about the frame, in addition to the default description of the frame. I mean if it is too much work for DE, I'm sure they could host a contest or something for players to make a video showcase about the starter frames, DE would just have to embed or implement it into the game, but that's a good step in a solid tutorial, in my opinion.

[zyraconne]

I know he said he left but WTF?!?! No way to group up? That's one of the reason you left as well. A little UI exploration would have gone a long way for the OP.

To be fair, I think there was a bug where someone wouldn't be able to see any kind of chat at all. Not in the lobby, not in-game.

And I agree there's a lack of tutorials. Especially regarding movement. I was running a low-level planet, and a newbie joined. It was on the mines, and when we came to the place where you need to wallrun, he simply couldn't. I tried typing in chat, but he either had the bug or didn't understand English. I tried showing how to do it repeatedly, but he couldn't seem to replicate. So I decided to just rush to the machine, bust it, and returned to him before finishing off the level. I just hope that guy decided to look for information in the forums or somewhere else, or tried doing it on his own, instead of... well, not learning (I don't think they show how to do it in-game).

[Ellare.Mezzo]

>>I play Dwarf Fortress regularly.

>>What I do not enjoy is sudden an unexpected difficulty increase.

>>I had no idea there were even a race <...> until I started being slaughtered by them.

I lold. OP, take your trollercoaster with you and get out. And I was trying to reply that thread, lol

[Zyfe3rX]

Dont they say clearly "LOKI FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS" ?

as far as i know, LOKI is amazing if you got decent weapons and tactics !

[Splosions]

I was warned early on that if it said infested, you better know what you are doing, or bring someone that does. Infested are relentless mass swarming zergs comprised of pure malice and hatred. I think the only thing worse would be a creeper in minecraft.

[RawGritz]

I think this thread would suggest that this game could really use a more in depth tutorial. It would be helpfull to new players if, during the opening tutorial with lotus, they got shown a variety of enemies (not just Grineer) so that they could make a more informed decision about what sort of starter warframe they should pick, it would also help if they had the starter warframes stat's available (rather than just vague descriptions) so that people can see the more basic advantages of each frame rather than just the abilites (a new player isn't going to know that loki has low hp and sheild but high movement speed and energy for example).

Hopefully such a thing will be implemented in the future.

Yup +1

More details are definitely needed. It says nothing about each frame's speed.

[Spiffmeister]

Loki is arguably the best soloing frame in the game. Yes the game is short of tutorials (perhaps the community need to start doing some tutorial videos?).

[Dwei-]

You know what? Maybe you're all right - this game isn't for me. Too bad since the play style, character designs, and general feel of the game all appeal to me. A lot of you seem to think that it's just "too hard" for me, and maybe that's the case too. Just wanted someone official to see it and take note. As I've uninstalled the game, and apparently can't seem to make a thought that isn't inflammatory in some way, I suppose I'll gracefully bow out of the discussion as well.

All the luck to those of you who are enjoying the game just the way it is.

Thank you, I believe its time for most of us Warframe players to continue to test and help the developers develop this relatively raw game.