Ash Overhaul

[IHWIP]

Ash has seemed to have fallen by the wayside next to everybody else getting buffed and I feel like the devs haven't touched him a long time and he needs some rework. What we have now:

#1 - Shuriken. Yay, throws some heavy hitting darts. Compare this to say...Mag who can clear entire groups of enemies with her #1. Kinda weak.

 

#2 - Smoke Screen. This isn't half bad. Shortened duration Invisibility with added stagger.

 

#3 - Teleport. Jump to the enemy with a stagger. Kinda blah but cheap and makes him mobile.

 

#4 - Blade Storm. Well...it works good solo at least. It makes him invulnerable so you can regain your shields. Ah...decent damage. Only hits enemies that are targeted and the targeting is excruciatingly limited.

 

How I would fix him:

 

#1 - Shuriken. I like that Ash can throw this and not disrupt stealth, the problem is that it costs a ridiculous amount of energy for its effectiveness and there is a delay in how fast you can throw them. I would make the energy cost to 5, make it only throw one dart, reduce the damage and then remove the delay between throws. He could have a rapid fire #1 which would make him unique. Making them auto-target and ricochet but not seek would add an additional element to it as well.

 

#2 - Smoke Screen. This doesn't need too much of a change. I would like to see the stagger effected by range and duration mods. Some vision obscurement wouldn't hurt. He's dropping a smoke bomb. Shouldn't there be...ya know...smoke?

 

#3 - Teleport. This has to be the weakest #3 next to Super Jump. For 25 energy this should do more. How about he does a short, 1-hit Blade Storm on his target? Also...this staggers your allies if you are fighting alongside Corpus or Grineer. Bug? I would also like to see this usable without a target. Perhaps he could teleport to the targeted wall and hold on for a few seconds (effected by duration mods) and allow you to snipe from above etc?

 

#4 - Blade Storm. I love this ability but really...it is so slow that by the time you start it, half the targets are already dead. So why not make it faster? This is supposed to be a Blade Storm, not a Blade Parade! Here is how I would do it:

You target your Blade Storm target and at this point Ash teleports not just to that target but to several other targets at once, appearing in multiple places at once and attacking as he currently does but in parallel with multiple versions of himself. Also, he continues until he the power wears off based on duration or until the area is clear. The viewpoint of the player would not change and instead would be watching from a distance until Ash reappeared.

 

That is my idea on how to make Ash useful again. The end. LOL

[JackBeloved]

#3 - Teleport. This has to be the weakest #3 next to Super Jump. For 25 energy this should do more. How about he does a short, 1-hit Blade Storm on his target? Also...this staggers your allies if you are fighting alongside Corpus or Grineer. Bug? I would also like to see this usable without a target. Perhaps he could teleport to the targeted wall and hold on for a few seconds (effected by duration mods) and allow you to snipe from above etc?

 

#4 - Blade Storm... You target your Blade Storm target and at this point Ash teleports not just to that target but to several other targets at once, appearing in multiple places at once and attacking as he currently does but in parallel with multiple versions of himself. Also, he continues until he the power wears off based on duration or until the area is clear. The viewpoint of the player would not change and instead would be watching from a distance until Ash reappeared.

 

Yes, please!

[RMSGM]

+1

 

Imho i would give his #2 the ability to cloak other Tenno too, at least he would have a skill that also buffs others as many frames can already do, his cloak doesn´t last as long as Loki either so i think something like this would be great.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Shuriken sounds interesting. Can't argue with Smokescreen. I'd like to see Teleport free-targetable. Don't like the idea of it being a "mini" Blade Storm. Make the stagger attached to it affected by duration, and small AOE.

 

But, for the love of... anything, really, don't go with that same old "Blade Storm hits multiple targets at once" crap. Sure, it speeds things up. Sure, it brings Blade Storm closer in line with other powerful ultimates. I'm not arguing with the viability of the change. HOWEVER, it essentially turns Blade Storm into the exact same "Press 4, do massive burst damage" ult that has been slapped on any number of other Warframes. It's boring.

Instead, go a head an increase the animation and transition speed to reduce the down time a bit, and make it so that enemies in the area are aggroed to Ash during the ability. They start shooting into the air wildly, trying to track a fast-moving and (though they don't know it,) invulnerable target. Shortens the time Blade Storm takes to complete. Gives it an arguably very useful team support utility: it kills stuff, which is great, but it also gives the other three players space to breathe, regen shields, kill some enemies, or revive a downed teammate. Avoids shoving the ability into another stenciled template.

 

Edit: Forgot to add in that the aggro effect will make sure that Blade Storm doesn't completely fall off when it starts doing negligible damage to excessively powerful enemies. Endless Content viability, yay!
 

Edited February 16, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[EdBazokatone]

+1

 

Imho i would give his #2 the ability to cloak other Tenno too, at least he would have a skill that also buffs others as many frames can already do, his cloak doesn´t last as long as Loki either so i think something like this would be great.

 

Every ash rework post I suggest this one to Smoke Screen.. he needs to bring something to the table when it comes to team play, since this is a co-op game.

Is the perfect skill to have team play capabilities and would be perfect for Stealth 2.0

[Scar.Heart]

1. That's incorrect. Shuriken does, in fact, alert enemies. It doesn't have a massive 3D noise (apparently), but it's there.

Innate silence would be lovely.

 

2. Smoke bomb needs a better overhaul. The stagger is nigh useless in stealth, and not too useful in open combat unless you've just been knocked down and need a quick escape.

I stick with my previous statements on Smoke Bomb; Let's leave it be until the other skills are properly reworked.

 

3. Something like this?:

Teleport

Ash teleports 25/45/45/50 meters to an enemy target and strikes them, dealing 300/450/600/750 damage. Living targets recieve a 1/1/2/3 second stun. [innate Silence] [stun] [Effected by Power Strength and similar mods]

- Teleport deals Impact/Puncture/Slash damage

 

- Upon teleporting behind his selected target, Ash draws the blades from his arms and strikes the enemy. A small, 1-2 second animation plays out (similar to those of Bladestorm).

 

- Successfully killing the target with Teleport will not alert any enemies.

 

- An unsuccessful attempt at killing the target will yield a 1/1/2/3 second stun, giving Ash the opportunity to perform a melee stealth attack (or use of silenced guns). [Not effected by mods] (target will be alert if still alive after stun recovery) (Stunned enemy will have colored linging, decided by the Energy palette your Ash has equipped)

 

- An unsuccessful attempt on killing the target will alert enemies within a 10 meter radius on all mod levels. [Not effected by mods]

 

- Stun works on all armored units. Stealth Attack retains all current limitations.

 

- Stealth attack does not apply to bosses. Stun does not effect heavy bosses. (Phorid, J3 Golem, Kela)

 

- Ash cannot teleport to Allies

 

- You do not gain the stealth attack opportunity on alert enemies, only stun.

Original Post

 

4. I don't care much for Bladestorm. Some threads ago, a user cooked up the idea of having 3-4 clone Ash's summoned on activation of Bladestorm, allowing Ash to kill so many at a time, while still retaining invulnerability during animation for shield recovery and whatnot. I liked that one.

[Nox-Lamina]

Somehow I don't agree with the suggestions for the group smoke bomb. Given that I see the cloak to be something unique to Ash and Loki Frames and having to be added to others via Shade, which is why all  3 methods look different. Maybe since there is smoke, enemies should be blinded for a bit, like a legit smokescreen.

 

I wouldn't want to turn shuriken into a spam-spam-spam and encourage you to spam ability for uniqueness. I think we could look at shock and give shuriken a bleed proc that has a great proc chance and will do some good DoT bleed damage. And re-instate the stun.

 

3 and 4 are fine (bravo)

[Pundit]

#3 - Teleport. This has to be the weakest #3 next to Super Jump. For 25 energy this should do more. How about he does a short, 1-hit Blade Storm on his target? Also...this staggers your allies if you are fighting alongside Corpus or Grineer. Bug? I would also like to see this usable without a target. Perhaps he could teleport to the targeted wall and hold on for a few seconds (effected by duration mods) and allow you to snipe from above etc?

 

#4 - Blade Storm. I love this ability but really...it is so slow that by the time you start it, half the targets are already dead. So why not make it faster? This is supposed to be a Blade Storm, not a Blade Parade! Here is how I would do it:

You target your Blade Storm target and at this point Ash teleports not just to that target but to several other targets at once, appearing in multiple places at once and attacking as he currently does but in parallel with multiple versions of himself. Also, he continues until he the power wears off based on duration or until the area is clear. The viewpoint of the player would not change and instead would be watching from a distance until Ash reappeared.

 

- I disagree with Shuriken, seeing as pretty much every frames #1 skill is pretty meh, but still okay, it should stay that way. Also, Shuriken is a bit underrated seeing as you can use it while firing most (maybe all, haven't tested) weapons, simply adding dps for a decent energy cost. Which is a lot better than other frames.

 

 

- I like the idea of Teleport being useable without a target, just not sure how to make it seem "legit" but something along the lines of your idea seems like it could work.

 

 

- As for Blade Storm I like the idea of having multiple "copy's" of Ash appear at once and each attack one of the marked targets, maybe they could appear as a smoky version of Ash to fit the theme. Another idea would be to instead just have one smoky copy of Ash do a much faster version of Blade Storm and let Ash carry on with his business, making it more along the lines of other frames abilities in terms of effectiveness.

 

Just my two cents.

[KageNoShini]

i just wish bladestorm was actually a storm of blades, like you just bring out 100 swords or something and machinegun them out, manually aiming of course, though that seems so out of place for this game, or for ash at least.

[Hrodgrim]

Let's all converge into one Ash topic.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/168784-ash-ninja-assassin-fear-personafied/

This fellow also had some really great ideas.

[Darkmoone1]

Yeah a Ash rework isn't really needed, but it would be greatly appreciated.

 

I felt like they only tapped a small amount in what they can do for Ash. His abilities can be greatly expanded upon.

[IHWIP]

What if instead of a single attack upon teleporting during blade storm there was radial damage? That way enemies can get hit multiple times and it really IS a storm of blades. Maybe he could do some more spinning animations while attacking and such to show off that he is teleporting, hitting multiple enemies, then teleporting, hitting more multiplies etc etc.