Digital Extremes Could Deliver So Much More

[Zakmonster]

Again, that doesn't fix the price, or justify it. Saying "Just don't buy it then!" Has never been a valid solution in WF.

 

I don't understand. How is it not a valid solution?

 

I didn't pay a single cent to get the Jat Kittag. Yet, I have it. My friend was too lazy to grind, so he bought the Jat Kittag with platinum. He also has it. He had it 3 days before I did, but did that somehow make him better than me?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I don't understand. How is it not a valid solution?

Most companies actively monitor and change pricing to find a good spot, DE does not.

 

Proof? The market prices haven't been changed in roughly a year, and the skana costs 150 plat, dual skana costs 140 plat. A research mat (i.e. mutagen sample) is 15 plat each.

 

Simply ignoring something is not a solution in WF.

 

I didn't pay a single cent to get the Jat Kittag. Yet, I have it. My friend was too lazy to grind, so he bought the Jat Kittag with platinum. He also has it. He had it 3 days before I did, but did that somehow make him better than me?

I'm not saying buying it with plat makes someone better than someone else, I never said, and never will, so don't try and say I did.

Edited February 21, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Zakmonster]

Most companies actively monitor and change pricing to find a good spot, DE does not.

 

Proof? The market prices haven't been changed in roughly a year, and the skana costs 150 plat, dual skana costs 140 plat. A research mat (i.e. mutagen sample) is 15 plat each.

 

Simply ignoring something is not a solution in WF.

 

I'm not saying buying it with plat makes someone better than someone else, I never said, and never will, so don't try and say I did.

 

Fair enough. A company might adjust their prices in order to get more customers to buy their products.

 

Yet DE hasn't bothered to change anything over the past year, despite massive discrepancies in pricing evident in the market. This means that they don't care about money (unlikely), or they're seeing that their current pricing model is making them enough money (more likely).

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Fair enough. A company might adjust their prices in order to get more customers to buy their products.

 

Yet DE hasn't bothered to change anything over the past year, despite massive discrepancies in pricing evident in the market. This means that they don't care about money (unlikely), or they're seeing that their current pricing model is making them enough money (more likely).

No, it's because they don't make money when people buy something with plat, they make money when people buy the plat. Don't spin this into "DE loves us, so they don't care about money!" DE is a business, business care about money.

[Zakmonster]

No, it's because they don't make money when people buy something with plat, they make money when people buy the plat. Don't spin this into "DE loves us, so they don't care about money!" DE is a business, business care about money.

 

I wasn't trying to say that. I was saying that DE doesn't care to make things cheaper because enough people are buying their stuff, despite the pricing. Either way, they think they're making enough money and that's good enough for them, I guess?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I wasn't trying to say that. I was saying that DE doesn't care to make things cheaper because enough people are buying their stuff, despite the pricing. Either way, they think they're making enough money and that's good enough for them, I guess?

Ah, my bad, overreacted and didn't finish fully reading, but yeah, they're content to sit on their laurels since their current pricing is making them enough money.

[Zakmonster]

I mean, look at it this way.

 

You're a new player. You see the Cernos and the Nova on the market and want to have it. You decide to sink some money into the game, to buy those two things with platinum, and you don't even know they're overpriced because you've literally only played this game for 3 days.

 

$20 later, you have a Nova, which you're having fun with, but this Cernos thing kinda sucks (cos it does Impact damage and you're still fighting Grineer, but you don't know anything about Damage 2.0). But this game has no refunds and DE already has your money. Too bad, sucker, go read the wiki next time before making purchases.

[zombisa]

The truth is that it's kinda getting boring.

 

Tile sets look and feel the same, although not that big of a problem.

Missions are pretty much the same, Capture/Rescue/Sabotage is all about running to an objective and then back.

Enemies are too similar and use the same basic tactics, their AI is not that great, except the Hyena Pack and maybe Stalker. Also, enemies don't look like they work together and there is really no challenge to most of them, the only problem is avoiding gun fire, and doing only that + shooting assures your victory and that makes stuff too easy.

 

Warframes and weapons are good, melee soon gets a fix, so maybe they should pause with new weapons and frames and rework the stuff that are not fun. Depth is also important. We need those nerdy things to get into, not just-enter room-shoot-loot-exit room-repeat.

Tip: If the game is fun and has some good lore and appeal, people will bash you less for bugs and less content and stuff like that.

Edited February 21, 2014 by zombisa

[Zakmonster]

The truth is that it's kinda getting boring.

 

Tile sets look and feel the same, although not that big of a problem.

Missions are pretty much the same, Capture/Rescue/Sabotage is all about running to an objective and then back.

Enemies are too similar and use the same basic tactics, their AI is not that great, except the Hyena Pack and maybe Stalker. Also, enemies don't look like they work together and there is really no challenge to most of them, the only problem is avoiding gun fire, and doing only that + shooting assures your victory and that makes stuff too easy.

 

Warframes and weapons are good, melee soon gets a fix, so maybe they should pause with new weapons and frames and rework the stuff that are not fun. Depth is also important. We need those nerdy things to get into, not just-enter room-shoot-loot-exit room-repeat.

Tip: If the game is fun and has some good lore and appeal, people will bash you less for bugs and less content and stuff like that.

 

This is all truth and if this had been the first post, this thread would have gotten better suggestions and discussions. The OP couching his argument/opinion through a comparison with other developers meant that most replies would be focused on analyzing those comparisons and seeing whether they're fair or not, instead of a discussion on the steps DE can take moving forward, in order to make Warframe a better game.

[harr0]

You're standing in the tunnel and what you see are the headlights of the Dark Souls 2 hype-train.

Hardly I was playing WF when there was three frames one tile set and very little to do besides complain about the platinum prices and wonder if its going to get any better.

After returning to it I can safely say it has in leaps and bounds. It just seems to me people just arnt happy because they aren't churning out update after update at the pace they want.

So coupled with the hotfixes, updates, new frames, weapons as well as the content underlined in dev#22 it seems that just isn't enough and if that is the case I don't think anything reasonable ever will be.

Content/updates will only come when there good and ready to come this works for mostly every single game released.

Like I've said before some people need to find other stuff to do to break up there time in warframe.

[Bibliothekar]

It just seems to me people just arnt happy because they aren't churning out update after update at the pace they want.

I can only speak for myself here, but as I said in a previous post to this thread, my problem is not so much that I don't get new and fancy stuff fast enough, but that they talk about something great in the devstream - and then we don't hear about this for the next few months, when this is finally released in a major update. (Or we never hear of it again, because they decided to drop the idea, for whatever reason.) Despite the Developer Workshop and whatnot. I mean, they made that gorramn forum for the sole purpose of telling us what they're working on and how things advance, to give us a look backstage. And the last threads there? The incoming Frost "rework" and Prime trade. Yay ...

I'd be perfectly happy to hear more often about the stuff they're working on, maybe see a vid or two on the status of Melee 2.0 and what it's probably going to look like. Just give me a little bit more than those snippets they show in the livestream, that's all I'm asking for.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Vaskadar]

I mean, I don't want a design doc or anything, but I'd like a sort of "in the focus" to know what they're primarily focused on.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

"Pay to win" in this case describes the option in this game to pay in order to obtain access to content otherwise unachievable through normal gameplay progress. Prime access, for example. Ever seen a Mastery Rank 0 or 1 player don Ember Prime and that exclusive Prime access scarf? That player has effectively paid to win, as they now have an advantage (stat-wise, even) over non-paying players who will not be able to access such content without a solid amount of gameplay put into it. Of course, this mention was in reference to the Legendary Cores.

I disagree with this point strenuously. Mainly because prime stuff is generally a cosmetic upgrade at best with few exceptions. Like, Ember Prime? Last I looked the only only difference she has to normal Ember is that she doesn't look like she escaped from Colonel Sanders.

For Prime Access to be P2W, you have to actually get a significant advantage with it. And then on top of that, you have to restrict it from non-whales. Prime gear can be grinded for easily enough, and with trading it's even easier to get.

[harr0]

You're standing in the tunnel and what you see are the headlights of the Dark Souls 2 hype-train.

Hardly I was playing WF when there was three frames one tile set and very little to do besides complain about the platinum prices and wonder if its going to get any better.

After returning to it I can safely say it has in leaps and bounds. It just seems to me people just arnt happy because they aren't churning out update after update at the pace they want.

So coupled with the hotfixes, updates, new frames, weapons as well as the content underlined in dev#22 it seems that just isn't enough and if that is the case I don't think anything reasonable ever will be.

Content/updates will only come when there good and ready to come this works for mostly every single game released.

Like I've said before some people need to find other stuff to do to break up there time in warframe.

[Bibliothekar]

You're repeating yourself, harr0.

[Silvershadow66]

This means between that for roughly 1 full year 120+ employees have been working on this game up too 200+ now.

 

 

And there is your first major mistake. What evidence do you have the that every employee of DE can work on content? It should be obvious to anyone that DE are going to have a Customer Support team who just do support for example.

 

How do you know that DE do not have other ongoing projects? It would be a highly risky proposition for DE to rely just on Warframe for the future financial stability of the company, sound business practice dictates that DE should still be working on other revenue streams.

 

 

For one weapon in Warframe, these Tenno Reinforcements, you can buy a cheap game that'll take more time than what that weapon will provide. To buy a whole Update Bundle to get all the new content immediately, you are basically spending the amount of a full game, one that would take many, many more hours to beat than the weapons and frame would provide."

 

Really, how many small games can you buy for absolutely no money at all?

 

 

Have been very unsatisfied with DE as of late, especially after hearing about how they had actively tried to destroy one of the largest and greatest clans in their own game.

 

You need to do a bit of research, what happened was well deserved and is to be expected when a clan thinks it can break the rules just because its members agree to do so.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Silvershadow66

[Silvershadow66]

wtf, 200 employees, and they only attract 15k players.........................

 

 

seriously, does half of them do nothing all day?

 

Oh look, someone else who can't do basic maths.

 

The peak today on Steam was 16.9K. Of course that peak number does not include anyone who plays via IAH games or who has their account directly with DE (note that the adverts that pop up on websites almost always direct the player to DE's site and not Steam). Then there are the PS4 players as well.

 

Then you have to take into account that even on Steam the game crosses multiple timezones so it will have multiple player peaks and that player peak numbers are always a fraction of the total number of active players.

[Nickeltoe]

Actually, he has every right to do just that. DEs pace is abysmally slow, lets not hide the facts here.

I love Warframe to pieces.

But when it comes down to it, he's right.

 

I agree and anyone who understands deadlines and workload knew when they started aiming for multiple platforms the extra workload on leads was cutting off actual content time and then the new employees seem to be geared toward those new platform possibilities.  Founders and PC players paid for the game and they expand away from that base.  Content gets slower, prices stay the same and bad choices are made quick since they are juggling so much.

 

In today's f2p market DE had huge loyalty around July of 2013 and folks would go to bat, but they go too big too fast and that loyalty is waning, perhaps if numbers slide they will get back on track like they were pre update 9.

 

EDIT:  They can get that loyalty back if they just focus on adding to the game and fixing what is there rather than the constant cycle of redoing content and reworking the same content over and over again.  New content is more mods of play, more things to do, not acquire in game.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Nickeltoe

[Lowsodium]

And there is your first major mistake. What evidence do you have the that every employee of DE can work on content? It should be obvious to anyone that DE are going to have a Customer Support team who just do support for example.

 

How do you know that DE do not have other ongoing projects? It would be a highly risky proposition for DE to rely just on Warframe for the future financial stability of the company, sound business practice dictates that DE should still be working on other revenue streams.

 

As a member of a clan that can no longer mention it's name, I can tell you their customer support are blatant liars who ignore their own rules.

 

Really, how many small games can you buy for absolutely no money at all?

 

This question has multiple levels. You can't compare Warframe, a FTP game to inexpensive small games. Comparing FTP to FTP, the answer is as many that have been made.

 

Otherwise, Warframe is expensive as F***. Now I love a lot of things about warframe, but there is one thing that really makes this game not FTP to me, in fact, it's price is inflating with almost every update. You NEED to buy slots to get more gear. This is rediculous. I have never seen a game do something like this in my entire life. The more content that is added, the more people need to pay to use that gear, or delete something that they worked on. They are holding gear hostage.

 

Edited February 22, 2014 by SilverBones
Discussing Moderation

[Shin]

-snip

can you please keep that topic out of here? guys? This is a civil and nice going thead, we dont want it to go to trash bin keep it somewhere else or pms. really

[Silvershadow66]

I think your perception is skewed. Nobody's claiming that they can manage the WF team better than DE can. We are questioning DE's work efficiency by comparing Warframe to the works of smaller development teams that produced highly enjoyable games.

 

Or you could be comparing Warframe to the work of (on the whole) very different types of game that are not enjoyable at all because whether a game is good or not is an opinion. Then realise that you have absolutely zero information about the relative complexity and effort involved in adding things to any of those games.

[SolidSp33d]

If I had to guess, I'd say focus. None of those games were extended open beta MMOs, and were developed accordingly: design and development under a budget and schedule.

 

This.

 

I wish people who want to try and make a comparison would make one where the circumstances are at least remotely similar.

Edited February 21, 2014 by SolidSp33d

[Silvershadow66]

Yes we can. We can see the cost of the game, the size of the team, the development time and customer satisfaction/retention/critical reception.

Using PoE as an example. They used less money, time, and devs to release a game that is far better received in all capacities. At the end of the day, how "good" the game is, is what matters. Comparatively, DE have failed.

 

EDIT: To add, you are equally unqualified to provide your own assessment of the situation. You are just as much an armchair developer as I am. How about you take your own advice and stop talking what you clearly don't know about.

 

If Warframe was a sci-fi top down diablo clone your point might have some merit, but it isn't and it doesn't.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If Warframe was a sci-fi top down diablo clone your point might have some merit, but it isn't and it doesn't.

So, are we unable to compare FTP to FTP games now? Or do we have to compare psuedo MMO, scfi, "space ninja", TPS's to psuedo MMO, scfi, "space ninja", TPS's?

 

And here's the thing, WF is likened to Diablo in the fact you run "dungeon" instances for loot, and while it's not perfect, it's hard to get a perfect match like you seem to expect.

[(PSN)munkt0r]

If anything i'd compare Warframe to DC Online