Can We Bring Skill Back Into This Game?

[Methanoid]

I could be wrong, but I think lasting in defense/survival missions up to level 200 enemies or so requires a great deal of preparation and foreplanning. There is a group who does that regularly, I can't remember who they are though.

 

that just requires penta/ogris or other overpowered weaponry, quite often using the exact same mix of frames, almost always used to involve 1-2 vauban, the now defunct frost, often a banshee or whatever else, personally id take vauban/banshee/nyx/trinity all running ES Auras, as their always powerful and effective on pretty much anything.

 

i doubt very much you will find a wave200 team consisting of saryn/volt/ash/ember or other weak and less effective frames, there are actually very few effective frames to pick from and i certainly wouldnt call skill a factor, just godly frame setup with powerful mods with the very few powerful weapons that actually work, unless using cookie cutter frames/weapons/mods is a skill.

[Methanoid]

Well, she is a must for all long survival runs at the moment, I think people would still bring her if she just gave a damage resistance to a max %, I mean you already have all other roles filled in all mission types, you dont need a 2nd Nekros or Nova.

 

actually since frost now sucks for defence ive seen teams of 1-2+ novas happily wrecking defence without even noticing the lack of a frost (many novas in survival just as effective as faster kills = quicker respawns), her MP doing 4 buffs/debuffs makes her a better defender now than frost or rhino the so called tanks of the game, which in itsself is wrong....  but works.

 

in fact best for defence = nova or multiple nova, survivals if not trinity or loki i'd take a nova, best for kill missions = erm nova, sure trinity can be way more effective for lasting longer but ppl want pew-pew, always have, always will, and trinity is not pew-pew.

[Legion-Shields]

that just requires penta/ogris or other overpowered weaponry, quite often using the exact same mix of frames, almost always used to involve 1-2 vauban, the now defunct frost, often a banshee or whatever else, personally id take vauban/banshee/nyx/trinity all running ES Auras, as their always powerful and effective on pretty much anything.

 

i doubt very much you will find a wave200 team consisting of saryn/volt/ash/ember or other weak and less effective frames, there are actually very few effective frames to pick from and i certainly wouldnt call skill a factor, just godly frame setup with powerful mods with the very few powerful weapons that actually work, unless using cookie cutter frames/weapons/mods is a skill.

well, yeah, I'd assume that the act of planning and using strategy would result in the ruling out of un-ideal frames.

 

I'm not talking about tactics or in-game skills, I was referring to using some brainpower. In the case I brought up, all the work is done before the game starts. after that it's just executing commands, similar to a computer program. You write the code with functionality in mind, then let it run after all the real work has been done (minus bugfixing and stuff).

Edited February 28, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[Noble_Cactus]

I could be wrong, but I think lasting in defense/survival missions up to level 200 enemies or so requires a great deal of preparation and foreplanning. There is a group who does that regularly, I can't remember the name though.

 

There are plenty of groups who do that regularly. Yes, it does take foreplanning and being able to adapt to rooms, controlling enemy spawns, etc. into account, but I was more referring to technical skill.

[Genoscythe]

actually since frost now sucks for defence ive seen teams of 1-2+ novas happily wrecking defence without even noticing the lack of a frost (many novas in survival just as effective as faster kills = quicker respawns), her MP doing 4 buffs/debuffs makes her a better defender now than frost or rhino the so called tanks of the game, which in itsself is wrong....  but works.

 

in fact best for defence = nova or multiple nova, survivals if not trinity or loki i'd take a nova, best for kill missions = erm nova, sure trinity can be way more effective for lasting longer but ppl want pew-pew, always have, always will, and trinity is not pew-pew.

 

Nova is ineffective against any high level corpus, mag prime rules here. Also a rhino with stunlock setup can prove really useful in a def mission. Never seen more than one nova in a def, normally 1 prime is enough to hit the whole map. For ODD she is not needed, just a semi-afk nekros and a booben, some explosions here and there. stuffs done.

 

I think one problem with trinity is that she has to be dragged around by everyone and is solely weapon reliant, also she is only 4 spam, which plays boring, even more boring than nova 4 spam, because of less pew-pew.

[Methanoid]

Nova is ineffective against any high level corpus, mag prime rules here. Also a rhino with stunlock setup can prove really useful in a def mission. Never seen more than one nova in a def, normally 1 prime is enough to hit the whole map. For ODD she is not needed, just a semi-afk nekros and a booben, some explosions here and there. stuffs done.

 

I think one problem with trinity is that she has to be dragged around by everyone and is solely weapon reliant, also she is only 4 spam, which plays boring, even more boring than nova 4 spam, because of less pew-pew.

 

aye if she does nothing flashy and is limited to relying on powerful a few weapons then ppl just dont bother, also for way high lvl corpus ive not actually tried with nova myself but ive joined a team that was doing really well with a vectis wielding nova and they didnt seem to be struggling, another was a rhino, cant remember what the 3rd dood was packing.

 

ODD your right, in fact her MP can be more annoying than useful, depends if its a team of randoms or not.  (actually ive been told not to use my avalanche frost for a similar reason which to me was weird as the cc doesnt last anywhere near as long as MP, plus i only use it when theres no Vaub or ones afk/leeching).

[Psychus]

BTW Psychus I have no "golden ideals". I can and do "sit out there" with my 6 forma'd Braton Prime and faceroll all the grineer/corrupted in my 1290 shield mag prime with quick thinking/rage and max fast deflection/fortitude. I do so because I'm grinding for resources, because it's fun, and because it's not hurting the game for my teammates, but rather helping the group I'm with who are all participating by consent to group together and farm.

Come@meBro

Then I'm not talking about you, am I? I have a 5 forma'd soma myself, and I roll around in an oberon when it suits my fancy. Mag is one of the more balanced frames, for she is one of the only frames that has an abillity that scales, and well at that. Downside being it's only really useful against 2 factions but hey can't win them all.

 

As excalibur has no team value, or value as a part of a group, I dont see him as balanced, his powers are practically useless in mid-high tier, but I get your point of view on balance now, thats rather going into a subjective direction now and further arguing on what we see as balanced would result in nothing.

 

As for powers, I think there is too much gunplay and weapon reliance in this game, I would like to see more ways to customize powers (like an own mod setup for each skill), rather than just getting more only-mastery-otherwise-useless weapons thrown at me. A Warframe that would be playable without weapons would be really nice, but there are much better and more balanced ways than giving each frame a press 4 to win skill. Mass Effect 3 did this quite good in my opinion.

 

About Frost, yeah, he needed change, I think there is something wrong with how a game challenges players if we always need an impenetratable bullet shield with us.

 

I hope Trinity will be next, a balance-only update would really be welcome, people are waiting since U7 to get Volt the power he deserves, many other frames need a rework or rebalancing.

As many people have already said in the forum, excalibur does indeed have team mechanics. And there is my issue. Frames have a "4 to win" power that essentially gives us a "Which ultimate do I want to use, and which one is most useful for my situation" except for the fact that nova has the end all, win all. Sorry mag fanboys, I know that shield polarize is good against high level corpus, but the buck stops there. I suppose a warframe playable without weapons would be alright, but why not mesh the systems? What would be so wrong about having powers that benefit from weapons, and weapons that benefit from powers? I mean, look at rhino's roar. I made a build around that just because it's one of those unique abillities that works in conjunction with weapons that doesn't just kill everything within a set radius.

[Noble_Cactus]

aye if she does nothing flashy and is limited to relying on powerful a few weapons then ppl just dont bother, also for way high lvl corpus ive not actually tried with nova myself but ive joined a team that was doing really well with a vectis wielding nova and they didnt seem to be struggling, another was a rhino, cant remember what the 3rd dood was packing.

 

ODD your right, in fact her MP can be more annoying than useful, depends if its a team of randoms or not.  (actually ive been told not to use my avalanche frost for a similar reason which to me was weird as the cc doesnt last anywhere near as long as MP, plus i only use it when theres no Vaub or ones afk/leeching).

 

The Nova was likely using a Vectis with Primed Chamber for big Antimatter Drop numbers. One of the few other skills that scales well.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Legion-Shields]

Then I'm not talking about you, am I? I have a 5 forma'd soma myself, and I roll around in an oberon when it suits my fancy. Mag is one of the more balanced frames, for she is one of the only frames that has an abillity that scales, and well at that. Downside being it's only really useful against 2 factions but hey can't win them all.

 

 

 

 

My point was to make me look unworthy of being spoken to in your eyes, since you seem to have a list of people who don't meet your standards.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[Inez]

As excalibur has no team value, or value as a part of a group, I dont see him as balanced, his powers are practically useless in mid-high tier, but I get your point of view on balance now, thats rather going into a subjective direction now and further arguing on what we see as balanced would result in nothing.

Keeping every mob within 60 meters cc'd forever is useless? You're a tough customer.

[Methanoid]

Keeping every mob within 60 meters cc'd forever is useless? You're a tough customer.

 

i think some people have issues with team support skills as opposed to enemy nuke type skills, loki is liked by few and hated by many, lots seem to think hes useless or weak, ppl like myself and others think hes well balanced and needs no buffs, excalibur i also think is the same, hes in a similar boat to loki, probably any frame like excal will be compared to nova for mass death or other frames similarly useful abilitys.

 

in excals case, i think its his raw dmg that some mistakenly think he should help a team with the most, personally i think his radial blind is infinitly useful for the team as opposed to his radial jav, hes highly mobile and a decent allrounder, hes not far off rhino in terms of allround decent.

[Psychus]

My point was to make me look unworthy of being spoken to in your eyes, since you seem to have a list of people who don't meet your standards.

I guess you have reached that list then haven't you? Such a pity.

[Legion-Shields]

I guess you have reached that list then haven't you?

exactly, so you shouldn't care about what a scrub like me has to say.

 

As to it being a pity, I'd disagree.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Legion-Shields