It Can't Be True.... (Rhino Prime Run Speed)

[HolidayPi3]

Behold! a heavily-armoured Warframe that  trades speed for power  laughs at you vanishing in the distance

Rhino Prime sprint speed Test

No way O.O

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Behold! a heavily-armoured Warframe that  trades speed for power  laughs at you vanishing in the distance

Rhino Prime sprint speed Test

 

Lol, I love the choice of music! :D

[WARLOCKE]

Ill state this, once more, because I like repeating things.

 

A) Rhino is not a tank,.

 

B) Most of the people posting these nerf Vanguard posts are repeat offenders, ie 5-6 people who post over and over and over. Horse beaters all.

 

C) To further complicate matter they dont play high level content. They just see a Rhino join thier Sedna survival and roflstomp a room of grinnier. 

Failing to see that by lvl 34, mobs dont die in one stomp and byy lvl 30+ it takes 3 and 6-10 on heavys. This is with Blind Rage. They also dont see how fast Ironskin drops to fire by 32+ mobs. IE, these people are not qualified to talk about balance because they only play one aspect of the game.

 

D) Rhino is fine, LTP. Altho they really need to buff normal rhino, frost and saryn (spelling) base move speed.

Edited March 8, 2014 by WARLOCKE

[HolidayPi3]

Ill state this, once more, because I like repeating things.

 

A) Rhino is not a tank,.

 

B) Most of the people posting these nerf Vanguard posts are repeat offenders, ie 5-6 people who post over and over and over. Horse beaters all.

 

C) To further complicate matter they dont play high level content. They just see a Rhino join thier Sedna survival and roflstomp a room of grinnier. 

Failing to see that by lvl 34, mobs dont die in one stomp and byy lvl 30+ it takes 3 and 6-10 on heavys. This is with Blind Rage. They also dont see how fast Ironskin drops to fire by 32+ mobs. IE, these people are not qualified to talk about balance because they only play one aspect of the game.

 

D) Rhino is fine, LTP. Altho they really need to buff normal rhino, frost and saryn (spelling) base move speed.

Gee, that's a lot of baseless assumption =/ I don't see how any of that really relates to the fact that Rhino still outshines most frames in terms of having utility, damage, tankiness, CC immunity, and now speed all in one kit.

Sure, you can throw around "but high level content!" as much as you want, but take into account that he still has the utility that comes from his Stomp and Roar.

Even then, most content happens before level 40 hits. So arguing "he loses some of his usefulness for high level content," isn't a very strong argument. Level 40+ stuff is an outlier in relation to the rest of the game's content. If he's finally "balanced" by the time he hits that content, then... he's an outlier as well.

As for the rest of the frames that can shine at high level content (Nyx, Vauban, Banshee), that's because they're built for utility with a trade off for damage and tankiness. Rhino gets an extremely generous slice of everything. 

Edited March 8, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Cwierz]

Rhino gets an extremely generous slice of everything. 

In theory, he should be getting those generous slices for the lack of speed, but I guess DE is to timid to do what they want to and remove the helmet stats.

Anyone who says he isn't a tank is just denying facts(warlocke), he obviously has 2-4x the damage taking capacity of the majority of the frames.

 

He also possess stereotypical tank-like skills, such as an ability that lets him absorb damage, crowd control utility, and boosts to his teammates.

 

Saying rhino isn't a tank is like me saying that nova isn't a damage dealing frame because at level 2 billion she can't kill with M Prime.

Its @(*()$ dumb, and it needs to stop.

 

If anything, this whole "buff 3v3ryting" philosophy won't work either. It has never worked ONCE in the history of game design, despite communities for so many games calling for it. What makes warframe so much different that you think it will work?

If anything, the only kinds of buffs that should really be administered heavily to many things are just making X good in the first place, which is just making something relevant, and should generally be expected at baseline for most pieces of game content.

 

To compound all of this, people use the argument of endgame to support their claims.

Let me outline what endgame we have right now-

1- You waste time because it takes you longer to kill enemies, when you could be grinding more efficiently.

2- The endgame gameplay is centered around making enemies unable to fight back because otherwise (no matter how good you might be) it is simply impossible to fight them. 

3- Its primary purpose is to stroke ego, by saying the actual game isn't important, and to show off to your friends that you could disable enemies on X wave or XX:XX  minutes

 

Despite all of this, people think you should balance for this.

 

This is also dumb, and needs to stop.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter-

Rhino is better than 90% of the warframes discounting ego-stroking unengaging gameplay that is not intended to be part of the game. He posseses the weakness of slower movement, to account for this. 

 

Stop trying to justify making him faster because you do not want to play the slow space ninja.  If you do not like the slower space ninjas, do not play the slow space ninjas!

 

Vanguard did not "make rhino", it just made him available/attractive to the people who ,in theory, shouldn't be playing him because they don't like him, and boosted his power unfairly. To compound this, we now have a prime version who might even be more guilty of doing so.

 

If you would not enjoy rhino without the vanguard helmet/supposed prime speed boost you should not be playing rhino.

[fu-jin]

RHINO is the fat man, but fast No. 1 !

[Mak_Gohae]

No other prime has better stats, except Exacalibur pirme faster shield recharge. Ember/Mag/"Snow" primes have same stats as regular ones.

 

 

They gotta buff Snow and Mag Prime, then.

Maybe they should give Mag faster shield recharge, give Ex higher jumping, and Snow longer sliding? Cause the ice and stuff.

[Cwierz]

They gotta buff Snow and Mag Prime, then.

Maybe they should give Mag faster shield recharge, give Ex higher jumping, and Snow longer sliding? Cause the ice and stuff.

How about no.

Primes are cosmetic.

[Zarozian]

RHINO is the fat man, but fast No. 1 !

 

I am loving every bit of this.

 

THE KING IS BACK!

[Th3Dean]

Vanguard Helmet was a big mistake. It sould be changed, not just nerfed but changed so it does not affect Rhino's speed.

 

Lol. And what type of uproar would there be over that, I wonder?

[Zarozian]

Lol. And what type of uproar would there be over that, I wonder?

Millions and millions of pissed off Rhino users.

 

And they make up the huge majority. Not only that, every user who mains a Rhino are like best friends to one another without ever meeting.

[Briareos]

It is a bit idiotic to ask for a character to be slow slow that without half his mod slots taken up with stamina and speed mods he can't actually keep up with the squad to be of any use on a normal mission.

A standard Rhino will just spend the whole mission wandering through empty rooms picking up loot.

 

This.

 

When I first got my Rhino, all I ever saw was the backs of everyone as they ran off into the distance. Sticking on a Vanguard helmet was one of the first things I did, even if it does mean lower power strength. Now, Rhino Prime being as fast as Loki? Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch and should be fixed. But don't go talking about how Rhino needs to be the Pokiest Warframe until you've waddled around behind the rest of your cell while they have all the fun.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

This.

 

When I first got my Rhino, all I ever saw was the backs of everyone as they ran off into the distance.

that's the price you pay for taking the most durable frame with the best direct damage buff and a very useful cc skill. they should change the vanguard helmet to give another stat (buffed stamina or stamina regeneration probably) and should buff rhino up to 1.0 sprintspeed, i mean frames like ember/mag/excalibur/volt are at 1.0 too and they're squishier.

[WARLOCKE]

that's the price you pay for taking the most durable frame with the best direct damage buff and a very useful cc skill. they should change the vanguard helmet to give another stat (buffed stamina or stamina regeneration probably) and should buff rhino up to 1.0 sprintspeed, i mean frames like ember/mag/excalibur/volt are at 1.0 too and they're squishier.

 

The most durable frame is Loki, then ash, then frost. Rhino comes in at distant 4th.

Nova has a higher damage buff (in the form of a debuff), Banshee also has a far greater damage buff/debuff.

 

So, yea.You may wanna rethink some things.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

The most durable frame is Loki, then ash, then frost. Rhino comes in at distant 4th.

Nova has a higher damage buff (in the form of a debuff), Banshee also has a far greater damage buff/debuff.

 

So, yea.You may wanna rethink some things.

 

loki is good at avoiding damage, same goes for ash, but loki is not durable, if you've ever played longer survival runs versus grineer you'd know that napalms can be a pain in the &#!. rhinos roar caps at 115% extradmg for everyone affected, outclassing novas 100% damage buff. banshees damage buff is situational and does not work well with explosives and aoe abilities

 

so, yea. you might wanna rethink some things.

Edited March 9, 2014 by MortalSin

[WARLOCKE]

Gee, that's a lot of baseless assumption =/ I don't see how any of that really relates to the fact that Rhino still outshines most frames in terms of having utility, damage, tankiness, CC immunity, and now speed all in one kit.

Sure, you can throw around "but high level content!" as much as you want, but take into account that he still has the utility that comes from his Stomp and Roar.

Even then, most content happens before level 40 hits. So arguing "he loses some of his usefulness for high level content," isn't a very strong argument. Level 40+ stuff is an outlier in relation to the rest of the game's content. If he's finally "balanced" by the time he hits that content, then... he's an outlier as well.

As for the rest of the frames that can shine at high level content (Nyx, Vauban, Banshee), that's because they're built for utility with a trade off for damage and tankiness. Rhino gets an extremely generous slice of everything. 

 

What??? There is nothing baseless and or is anything I typed an "assumption."

Do I really have to type out why?

 

And why shouldnt he have utility from stomp and Roar? Im kinda confused as to what your getting at with that statement.

 

Most content comes from sub 40 stuff for YOU, I tend not to hang out in "newbie zones." when im max level. So that point is very subjective.

Unless you play all the content, you are not qualified to comment on all of the content. The times I revisit solar system content sub pluto I understand im going to faceroll it, that has nothing to do with Rhino, I play Ash. So yea, high level being thrown out because its what I and most vets play.

 

Once more, Rhino is not a tank. No warframe is, His extended shield (iron skin) makes him mmore durable than most other frames, But it isnt enough to call him a tank. Go drop a 20 minute pluto survival with a Rhino and see how long you are going to tank for.

 

No warframe should be below 1.0 speed. And thats what four or five of the haters want. 

[WARLOCKE]

loki is good at avoiding damage, same goes for ash, but loki is not durable, if you've ever played longer survival runs versus grineer you'd know that napalms can be a pain in the &#!. rhinos roar caps at 115% extradmg for everyone affected, outclassing novas 100% damage buff. banshees damage buff is situational and does not work well with explosives and aoe abilities

 

so, yea. you might wanna rethink some things.

 

I play high level content almost to a exclusion. I can survive far longer with the three frames I have mentioned in ANY level of game play, The best form of durability is not getting hit at all. 

 

I am possibly wrong about Roar, Im working under the impression that its hard capped at 50% like it was when it was introduced. Shows you how long its been since ive used it.

 

Want to know what I use my Rhino for? The only thing hes worth doing, leveling weapons on ceres solo. 

 

So yup, lets both rethink some things I guess?

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

I play high level content almost to a exclusion. I can survive far longer with the three frames I have mentioned in ANY level of game play, The best form of durability is not getting hit at all. 

 

I am possibly wrong about Roar, Im working under the impression that its hard capped at 50% like it was when it was introduced. Shows you how long its been since ive used it.

 

Want to know what I use my Rhino for? The only thing hes worth doing, leveling weapons on ceres solo. 

 

So yup, lets both rethink some things I guess?

see, i'm not even desperate for making rhino slow, but as it stands he's either overkill or to weak, having him at ashs level when it comes to speed is okay, but when you got as much highlevel expierience as you claim you would know that a few stray shots kill loki easily and therefore he needs to stay the fastest frame for now. rhino needs to be changed to scale into higher levels while he looses some of his supposedly "OP-ness" on lower levels.

Edited March 9, 2014 by MortalSin

[Ttariel]

Yes nobody wants to be slow in a space ninja game, but saying the only frame that even says it "trades speed for power" is fine when it goes hunting for lokis butt.

 

Cmon guys

And if we want to go this way, why is Frost Prime not getting a speed boost ?

Why is Ember Prime still so slow

Why is Volt the frame that is supposed to be full of lightning in need of a buffskill to reach top speed ?

Why is Zephyr light like paper but still cant ketchup the mayo ?

Why is Ash the most of the ninja so slow for his type ?

 

Dont want to give up the helmet ?

OK fine for me, remove the "downside" of the vanguard and replace it with 25% higher stamina cost.

 

Rhino is balanced now ?

OK buff every lower frame with 10% extra speed so they can write home how they didnt get outrun by a segway without wheels and full of bacon .

 

Think its fine how it is now ?

Go write a song about friday.

 

Who was Phone ?

But 

[Axeroix]

 

Why is Volt the frame that is supposed to be full of lightning in need of a buffskill to reach top speed ?

 

IVE Had it with rhino's unbalance compared to volts speed im gonna take a short break from this game

[TwiceDead]

In theory, he should be getting those generous slices for the lack of speed, but I guess DE is to timid to do what they want to and remove the helmet stats.

Anyone who says he isn't a tank is just denying facts(warlocke), he obviously has 2-4x the damage taking capacity of the majority of the frames.

 

He also possess stereotypical tank-like skills, such as an ability that lets him absorb damage, crowd control utility, and boosts to his teammates.

 

Saying rhino isn't a tank is like me saying that nova isn't a damage dealing frame because at level 2 billion she can't kill with M Prime.

Its @(*()$ dumb, and it needs to stop.

 

If anything, this whole "buff 3v3ryting" philosophy won't work either. It has never worked ONCE in the history of game design, despite communities for so many games calling for it. What makes warframe so much different that you think it will work?

If anything, the only kinds of buffs that should really be administered heavily to many things are just making X good in the first place, which is just making something relevant, and should generally be expected at baseline for most pieces of game content.

 

To compound all of this, people use the argument of endgame to support their claims.

Let me outline what endgame we have right now-

1- You waste time because it takes you longer to kill enemies, when you could be grinding more efficiently.

2- The endgame gameplay is centered around making enemies unable to fight back because otherwise (no matter how good you might be) it is simply impossible to fight them. 

3- Its primary purpose is to stroke ego, by saying the actual game isn't important, and to show off to your friends that you could disable enemies on X wave or XX:XX  minutes

 

Despite all of this, people think you should balance for this.

 

This is also dumb, and needs to stop.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter-

Rhino is better than 90% of the warframes discounting ego-stroking unengaging gameplay that is not intended to be part of the game. He posseses the weakness of slower movement, to account for this. 

 

Stop trying to justify making him faster because you do not want to play the slow space ninja.  If you do not like the slower space ninjas, do not play the slow space ninjas!

 

Vanguard did not "make rhino", it just made him available/attractive to the people who ,in theory, shouldn't be playing him because they don't like him, and boosted his power unfairly. To compound this, we now have a prime version who might even be more guilty of doing so.

 

If you would not enjoy rhino without the vanguard helmet/supposed prime speed boost you should not be playing rhino.

 

All of this. I couldn't have said it better myself. 

[Cwierz]

All of this. I couldn't have said it better myself. 

Maybe some day people will wisen up and start to understand balance.

Between weapons it is of less importance, but it is highly important in warframe balance.

[Revel72]

Let me tell you reasons why Loki is better than Rhino by community:

 

1. He has lowest stats of all frames. Meaning that he has highest Risk VS Reward gameplay even with the perma invis you are still vulnerable.

2. Run speed makes it easy to other frames let the Loki take the tasks what are far away and not requiring defending.

3. Radial disarm. :D Troll and tool

4. All the trolls with the Switch Teleport.

5. Scout job.

 

Reasons why Rhino shouldn't have the speed buffs:

 

1. As a tank you are SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH YOUR GOD DAMN TEAM!

2. You have highest health and damage & CC protection ability.

3. You can lock down enemies to stasis for a long time.

4. Roar increases damage output and armor so be with your team and don't rush.

5. LOWEST RISK VS REWARD FRAME.

6. HE IS BY FAR EASIEST WARFRAME TO LEVEL UP AND PLAY AS. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!

 

There I think this should fill you all why Loki is supposed to be the fastest.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Revel72

[Cpl_Facehugger]

And if we want to go this way, why is Frost Prime not getting a speed boost ?

Why is Ember Prime still so slow

I'd support this.

Why is Zephyr light like paper but still cant ketchup the mayo ?

Zephyr's base speed is faster than Loki's, isn't it? And of course tailwind lets her zoom around the map faster than zorencopters if she's properly modded.

Why is Ash the most of the ninja so slow for his type ?

Ash is faster than average.

1. As a tank you are SUPPOSED TO STAY WITH YOUR GOD DAMN TEAM!

Prior to Vanguard, this wasn't possible because of how slow he was.

2. You have highest health and damage & CC protection ability.

Valkyr beats Rhino in all of that but CC immunity. Valkyr's health is higher, her armor is massively higher and she has an actual invincibility ability rather than 1200 health that will evaporate in two shots from a high level napalm.

Zephyr, in fact, beats Rhino in durability, having equal shields, more health, more mobility, and turbulence being vastly more effective in all levels of play.

3. You can lock down enemies to stasis for a long time.

So can a lot of frames, except they can do it better. Vauban, Excal, Nyx, just off the top of my head.

4. Roar increases damage output and armor so be with your team and don't rush.

Roar does not increase armor. It increases damage output but isn't as effective at it as other damage buffs like M-Prime or Sonar.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

All of this. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I wish I had a downvote button for both your post and his post. I mean, it's pretty clear neither of you have actually played a non-vanguard Rhino. While in theory slow speed should make up for the advantages he gets, it doesn't. It vastly overshadows them because in actual gameplay, what actually happens is your team rushes on ahead and leaves you in the dust without any enemies to kill. Your team, meanwhile, is waiting at extraction for your slow rhino to huff and puff his way there.

I've mained Rhino since I started playing the game. I mained him before vanguard helmet came out, so I'm in a good position to know what it's like. And what it's like simply wasn't fun unless soloing because he's too slow.

Frost only gets away with being slow because his niche is defending a stationary pod and he could do with a speed boost too. Saryn, the other sub-1.0 speed frame has her own alt helmet to counteract that.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger