Rhino, Frost, Rhino, Zephyr.

[ErickJatobA]

Since Rhino prime came out a lot of players (especially Frost fans) have being said that they need to nerf rhino.

Rhino was the first of the Warframes to get nerfed, and them balanced. This cicle will repeat with any Warframe that DE change, and they will change almost every one.
The thing that make me want to punch my monitor is when I see someone saying that Rhino strip of the dificult of the game, then I take a deep breath and when a I am calm again, I ask:

Did anyone here have played a High End mission with a Rhino?

Well I did, level 75 Corrupted Heavy Gunner can take a Rhino with maxed out shield, health and armor + a Iron skin with an addition of 90% of power strenght in under 10 seconds.
Another Question.

Did anyone noticed the new warframe? - Zephyr, the best frame for non infested mission, especially corpus missions.
Why anyone isn't asking for nerf her? is beacuse she is underused compared to Rhino?

In my opinion the Frost players are just hurt as the Rhino players was in the past when DE strip of the radial blast and the 15 seconds of god mode from Rhino. Balance a game is not easy, there a plenty of post saying why Frost is nerfed.

Why you can not just wait? Is because Frost is Holy ground where anyone can not touch?

About Rhino prime being fast then the normal one, maybe it is a new way to make the primes unique. Why not

encourage DE to make this changes on the old and next primes, And not asking for nerf, but for a balance.

 

Sorry about the english.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ErickJatobA

[X3Evanescence]

True. That God-mode Rhino really had to go. If you compare the Rhino now to Rhino in the past, actually DE had did a truly excellent job at making him a viable frame, in fact so viable that they had, for some reason remove all his downsides and make him the ultimate go-to and overused frame in the game. This speaks of how viable Rhino is now. Now lets see if DE can make the other frames all become viable.

[Stormandreas]

No, Rhino does need a small, but necessary nerf, to bring him down to the same levels of other frames. He currently is FAR to powerful (invincibilty iron skin, crazy power CC stomp which can be buffed further, and mobility). He covers every basis, and does it better than frames that are even made for just one of them (frost for defence. Ember or Nova, Zepyr).

I have been using Zephyr extensivly, and she does not need a nerf. She doesn't do well in low ceiling environment, and is made for mobility (which she does). Yes her ultimate has power, but you can't control it. You cast it, and that's it, afterwards it does what it wants.

Frost needs changed back to the way he was, as he was necessary for a high HIGH level defence and survival missions. Now, cause his globe will be gone in about 1 to 2 hits at that level, he is useless at helping a team, and so DE are screwing their endgame content by nerfing frames.

The only frame that can really hold its own in endgame, is Rhino (perhaps trinity IF you don't get hit when casting), so either EVERY frame needs buffed a little, or Rhino needs a small nerf.

[Axeroix]

Did anyone noticed the new warframe? - Zephyr, the best frame for non infested mission, especially corpus missions.

Why anyone is asking for nerf her? is beacuse she is underused compared to Rhino?

how difficult is it to get her in comparison to him ?

 

About Rhino prime being fast then the normal one, maybe it is a new way to make the primes unique. Why not

encourage DE to make this changes on the old and next primes, And not asking for nerf, but for a balance.

OH Please this is stupid as frames like Volt NEED a speed buff and the one frame that doesnt need one got one

[Seraiya.Gier]

Every frame needs a buff. Rhino is fine. This could be DE's way of saying "Let's give Primes something unique." Which I agree with. They're a "prime" for a reason. They should be better than the regular, not just a silly aesthetic feature and a new polarity slot. Primes should always be better and have an advantage over the original. Otherwise, what would be the point of a Prime? To feel pretty with gold trim? That's $&*&*#(%&.

[Seox]

He covers every basis, and does it better than frames that are even made for just one of them (frost for defence. Ember or Nova, Zepyr).

 

...

 

Frost needs changed back to the way he was, as he was necessary for a high HIGH level defence and survival missions. Now, cause his globe will be gone in about 1 to 2 hits at that level, he is useless at helping a team, and so DE are screwing their endgame content by nerfing frames.

 

 

I'd argue that no frame should be "built around a mode", if you get me - the goal should be to allow any player to use their favorite frame and playstyle to tackle any content, even if one frame is a bit better than another at it.

 

That said, pre-nerf frost was a very one-trick pony. Pre-nerf Rhino was also a very one-trick pony. Those aspects make it difficult to create an interesting and fun to play frame that is suitable for varied content, so it only makes sense that they'd add limitations to snowglobe and buff the other skills in the future. We're just in that stage in-between where we're waiting on that to happen as they determine what best to do.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Seox

[VegetableBasket]

level 75 Corrupted Heavy Gunner can take a Rhino with maxed out shield, health and armor + a Iron skin with an addition of 90% of power strenght in under 10 seconds.

You didn't press 4.

[Sev1107]

This thread needs a nerf.

[(PSN)Daikon177]

I'd argue that no frame should be "built around a mode", if you get me - the goal should be to allow any player to use their favorite frame and playstyle to tackle any content, even if one frame is a bit better than another at it.

 

That said, pre-nerf frost was a very one-trick pony. Pre-nerf Rhino was also a very one-trick pony. Those aspects make it difficult to create an interesting and fun to play frame that is suitable for varied content, so it only makes sense that they'd add limitations to snowglobe and buff the other skills in the future. We're just in that stage in-between where we're waiting on that to happen as they determine what best to do.

I agree, hopefully they just take duration off globe and add your armour rating too it on top of power strength the you will be able to use a full fleeting experience and have room for a full rush mod and steel fiber and he will be an absolute beast after 2 or 3 forma

[bejuizb]

Instead of bloody nerfing Rhino to a lower tier, why not buff the rest so that everyone is happy.

[Flamed]

The only broken thing about Rhino would be the stupid Vanguard helmet. If Frost was able to run as fast as all the other warframes, I would be fine with the snowglobe changes. There's no reason to use Frost in any other missions besides Defense since he runs so dam slow.

[Seox]

You didn't press 4.

 

I'm really wondering if any of the people talking about how powerful Rhino's 4 is have ever played Rhino - the CC is the powerful part, because it's not subject to scaling enemies. It stops killing enemies as quickly long before other damage-oriented frames have scaling issues on their ults. If you want to complain about Rhino's 4, complain about the CC.

 

@Flamed, I'd agree that the vanguard helmet is too much bang for the buck. It really brings the "quality of life" up on Rhino, but pretty much every other frame needs a mod to do that. I believe that things like that helmet were the motivation behind removing the stat bonuses on helmets and do feel that it's too useful for too little drawback.

 

That said, I'm not exactly going to stop using it in the meantime. BACONNNNNNNNN!

[Rennagade]

I think rhino is fine, zephyr is fine, and the frost nerfs were uncalled for.

 

As for rhino prime being faster- I think that the primes need something other than a different polarity or two to make them unique.  The speed boost did just that.  It gives a reason to use them other than gold trimming, because lets face it.  If you went out of your way to get a prime its because you enjoyed using the original. If you enjoyed using the original its probably been forma'd a few times, making it in reality better than the prime...  Unless the prime had a stat that was better than the original.

 

The increased movement speed is a trend that I hope continues when the next primes.  They need an edge over their standard counterparts.  They should to be more powerful in some way(not necessarily movement speed).

[SazerTarious]

if they nerf rhino i would say my prime money was wasted, also please rhino is not meant to be for low levels (using rhino in low levels is like using molecular prime in mercury or other low level planets), go do some high level missions (high level missions mean t3 survivals at 40+min) with it. and you'll see that so called god mod is actually paper god. Also about Rhino Prime, you can distinguish him from his helmet, and when you look at his base speed, you'll be forced to use Tharak helmet. so basically RP is base Rhino without his Base Prime helm. (Poor Design Mynki)

 

Also about frost, even i love frost and his nerf was stupid decision by scott, if those players who use globe and leave to get the coffee its their fault they are no better then leechers, and this shouldn't mean that those who actually play with it should've experienced that nerf.(instead of nerfing warframe if they focus on leechers then this would solve 40% of warframe problems) after saying that i think what should've been nerfed for frost (that unlimited snow globes) they actually nerfed the wrong thing. Now waiting for that buff eagerly .

Edited March 9, 2014 by SazerTarious

[ChaoticVice777]

if they nerf rhino i would say my prime money was wasted, also please rhino is not meant to be for low levels (using rhino in low levels is like using molecular prime in mercury or other low level planets), go do some high level missions (high level missions mean t3 survivals at 40+min) with it. and you'll see that so called god mod is actually paper god.

 

Practically anyone is going to be made out of paper in that situation, but Rhino, Trinity, Loki, and a few other Warframes can simply handle the pressure better.

 

The sad part is how Rhino can be found at the beginning of the game (Venus), while Frost is found near the end of the game (Ceres). And yet, Rhino can handle higher level content better. The logic is...impeccable.

[Seox]

Practically anyone is going to be made out of paper in that situation, but Rhino, Trinity, Loki, and a few other Warframes can simply handle the pressure better.

 

The sad part is how Rhino can be found at the beginning of the game (Venus), while Frost is found near the end of the game (Ceres). And yet, Rhino can handle higher level content better. The logic is...impeccable.

 

I'm not so convinced - the warframes have to be obtained from somewhere, and if we take the idea that frames should be better if they are obtained later in the starchart to its logical conclusion, the game wouldn't be much fun. Team Greed/Team Meta would like a word with you with this idea.

[Ziegrif]

Did anyone noticed the new warframe? - Zephyr, the best frame for non infested mission, especially corpus missions.

Why anyone is asking for nerf her? is beacuse she is underused compared to Rhino?

 

Probably because her 3 only works for Projectiles.

So Heavy Gunners and most Grineer units shoot her down quite fast.

And last I checked she still takes dmg from Napalm aoes.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Ziegrif

[Sev1107]

Practically anyone is going to be made out of paper in that situation, but Rhino, Trinity, Loki, and a few other Warframes can simply handle the pressure better.

 

The sad part is how Rhino can be found at the beginning of the game (Venus), while Frost is found near the end of the game (Ceres). And yet, Rhino can handle higher level content better. The logic is...impeccable.

In that logic Excalibur should be the best frame. But you can still get him in the beginning if you chose him, so if there were "better frames" by your logic, people who start with Excal would feel OP as S#&$ right off the bat.

[ErickJatobA]

No, Rhino does need a small, but necessary nerf, to bring him down to the same levels of other frames. He currently is FAR to powerful (invincibilty iron skin, crazy power CC stomp which can be buffed further, and mobility). He covers every basis, and does it better than frames that are even made for just one of them (frost for defence. Ember or Nova, Zepyr).

I have been using Zephyr extensivly, and she does not need a nerf. She doesn't do well in low ceiling environment, and is made for mobility (which she does). Yes her ultimate has power, but you can't control it. You cast it, and that's it, afterwards it does what it wants.

Frost needs changed back to the way he was, as he was necessary for a high HIGH level defence and survival missions. Now, cause his globe will be gone in about 1 to 2 hits at that level, he is useless at helping a team, and so DE are screwing their endgame content by nerfing frames.

The only frame that can really hold its own in endgame, is Rhino (perhaps trinity IF you don't get hit when casting), so either EVERY frame needs buffed a little, or Rhino needs a small nerf.

 

That is my point, why nerf one frame to level of the others, when you can buff the others to the same level of this one.

The iron skin loses effectivity in end game and  in my opnion Zephyr Turbulance shines. Its a awesome skill for ranged enemies.

The iron skin become more usefull against High end infested

Edited March 9, 2014 by ErickJatobA

[ErickJatobA]

how difficult is it to get her in comparison to him ?

 

OH Please this is stupid as frames like Volt NEED a speed buff and the one frame that doesnt need one got one

 

Actually is not that difficult when you make the comparison using a parameter, in my point, a mission with Ranged enimies.

Zephyr have the Best Shield and heath of All frames

Great mobility and a awesome skill that provides survivability.

Rhino have mediocre health, great armor and shield, poor mobility, The Rhino charge or Vanguard helmet can make him keep up.

Them both can do croud control, them both can tank Ranged enemys.

But Iron skin become just a "over shield" in end game, while Turbulence keep its effectivity

Is the particularity of each other that make you choose one instead of other, like Rhino tanking meele enemies and Zephyr with her High mobility.

Zephyr and Rhino in My opinion are the most balanced Frames on the game.

Vauban is in a good balance, Loki is perfect.

There are good frames, Nyx I only pick her in a mobile defense. Frost for still a good defensive frame, but he need a buff to keep up with the others.

Volt In my opinion just make his base speed bigger, that will make me happy, I love play with him one of the best good looking Warframes.

 

[ChaoticVice777]

In that logic Excalibur should be the best frame. But you can still get him in the beginning if you chose him, so if there were "better frames" by your logic, people who start with Excal would feel OP as S#&$ right off the bat.

 

We're using different lines of logic.

 

It's incorrect to say Excalibur is the best Warframe, but you seem to be thinking that my logic is that the "better" Warframes (which do exist, compare the current Frost versus everything else) are unlocked at the later planets.

 

My thoughts are that the distribution of the Warframes within the different regions of the Origin System is flawed; I'd rather research the Warframes themselves (I never understood why some of the bosses drop Warframe part blueprints, as weapon blueprints/parts make much more sense) within the Tenno Lab. That way, the clan can control which Warframes to research without having to struggle with further RNG while removing the aforementioned logic.

Edited March 9, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[ErickJatobA]

You didn't press 4.

 

No, because Rhino stomp is saved for a moment when a team mate falls, that's is the skill to save them.

[ErickJatobA]

The only broken thing about Rhino would be the stupid Vanguard helmet. If Frost was able to run as fast as all the other warframes, I would be fine with the snowglobe changes. There's no reason to use Frost in any other missions besides Defense since he runs so dam slow.

 

That's is why my Frost have a Rush mode.

and my Frost Prime is there to take a Defense mission.

[PoorCensored]

Every frame needs a buff. Rhino is fine. This could be DE's way of saying "Let's give Primes something unique." Which I agree with. They're a "prime" for a reason. They should be better than the regular, not just a silly aesthetic feature and a new polarity slot. Primes should always be better and have an advantage over the original. Otherwise, what would be the point of a Prime? To feel pretty with gold trim? That's $&*&*#(%&.

 

Unless they are going to make Excalibur Prime available again, I don't want primes with anything more than aesthetic features and maybe different polarity slots. If they buff all the Primes, there will be outrage that the better Excalibur is not available for play. If they buff them all except Excalibur (or if they re-release him), there will be outrage that the founders paid for nothing special. (Though, at least if they re-release him, there will be some happiness by newer players able to get him.)

 

I'm really wondering if any of the people talking about how powerful Rhino's 4 is have ever played Rhino - the CC is the powerful part, because it's not subject to scaling enemies. It stops killing enemies as quickly long before other damage-oriented frames have scaling issues on their ults. If you want to complain about Rhino's 4, complain about the CC.

 

That said, I'm not exactly going to stop using it in the meantime. BACONNNNNNNNN!

 

I just built, and started leveling, Rhino. I've have and have mastered the following frames: Mag, Ember, Nyx, Nova, Oberon, Valkyr.

 

While my (near) infinite invulnerability Valkyr build has way better survivability than my level Rhino had at level 1, I could never solo content as well as I could with my level 1 Rhino. Seriously, I found the Rhino made most maps I struggled to solo a cake walk. I don't even run through maps - I just pop Iron Skin, slowly plod through them like a tank, kill everything I see,and turn off alarms as necessary. On most of my frames, I'd crumple with out someone else to coordinate with - and Valkyr was mainly useful on Survival and Defense maps, where energy rains down like mana from heaven.

 

Granted, that's not a comment on his CC... but that he has any CC at all is pretty crazy.

 

Note: the first thing I did with my level 1 Rhino was stick a max Rifle Damage Aura on him, and then maxed out Iron Skin.

 

I think rhino is fine, zephyr is fine, and the frost nerfs were uncalled for.

 

As for rhino prime being faster- I think that the primes need something other than a different polarity or two to make them unique.  The speed boost did just that.  It gives a reason to use them other than gold trimming, because lets face it.  If you went out of your way to get a prime its because you enjoyed using the original. If you enjoyed using the original its probably been forma'd a few times, making it in reality better than the prime...  Unless the prime had a stat that was better than the original.

 

The increased movement speed is a trend that I hope continues when the next primes.  They need an edge over their standard counterparts.  They should to be more powerful in some way(not necessarily movement speed).

 

See my above comment about special Primes.

 

Edit: My spelling and grammar sucks today.

Edited March 9, 2014 by PoorCensored

[Seox]

I just built, and started leveling, Rhino. I've have and have mastered the following frames: Mag, Ember, Nyx, Nova, Oberon, Valkyr.

 

While my (near) infinite invulnerability Valkyr build has way better survivability than my level Rhino had at level 1, I could never solo content as well as I could with my level 1 Rhino. Seriously, I found the Rhino made most maps I struggled to solo a cake walk. I don't even run through maps - I just pop Iron Skin, slowly plod through them like a tank, kill everything I see,and turn off alarms as necessary. On most of my frames, I'd crumple with out someone else to coordinate with - and Valkyr was mainly useful on Survival and Defense maps, where energy rains down like mana from heaven.

 

Granted, that's not a comment on his CC... but that he has any CC at all is pretty crazy.

 

Note: the first thing I did with my level 1 Rhino was stick a max Rifle Damage Aura on him, and then maxed out Iron Skin.

 

 

Excellent; Now go run anything that's remotely difficult. Iron skin scales very poorly. The typical retort is "in any circumstance where iron skin is lost quickly, other frames are in trouble too", but that's not exactly what I'm saying. Iron skin scales poorly - contrast that with Zephyr's turbulence, which does not depend on the level or damage of the enemy. While iron skin feels like god mode early on, any skills that don't scale become more and more useless as enemies reach higher levels.

 

How is it a wonder that he has CC?

 

Excal has:

Damage

Mobility

AoE

CC

 

Volt has:

CC

Mobility/Support

Utility

Damage/CC

 

Nova has:

Damage

Mobility

Debuff/CC/Damage

 

Rhino has:

Mobility

Defense

Support

CC

 

What you say seems to imply that Rhino has more versatility in mechanics than other frames, and that simply isn't true. Rhino's independence comes from the fact that iron skin allows you to recover shields by the time it's taken down in most of the content in the game, and that makes it much easier to survive when you're surrounded. All of his skills are viable and synergize well, but that doesn't necessitate him being overpowered.