Why Founders Pack Exclusivity Is Hard To Defend

[Sev7n]

wanting more of what you already have but don't need is greed. And in this case the want for a frame/weapons (excal prime, lato and skana prime) that no one needs is greed since everyone already has or can obtain their normal versions.

[LordChronos]

Why are people still talking about this? It's not going to happen... If it did, I hope they would 1up the founders with something else that's exclusive then people will *@##$ about that too.

Face it. People who paid nothing forward to give this game a chance in the early stages deserves NOTHING. Even now, a lot of players just want want want and still won't contribute anything. There are prime access exclusives on the market, go get those before they are gone forever!

I hear people are already not happy about missing out on the misa syandana... That's not coming back either.

/polishes off my Lato Prime

/evil smirk XD

[Kalenath]

Greed is wanting something you don't have! Stop calling Founders GREEDY! It may be considered selfish, but anyone without the Founders stuff who wants the Founders stuff, after the fact, is greedy!

 

Do you really think they care? They don't have it and they want it. That is enough for them.

 

But...

 

For those who cannot or will not look it up.

 

Greed

 

/grēd/

 

noun

1.

 

intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.

 

 

 

Or- from Wikipedia. Everyone's favorite be all and end all of research- (since so few people here seem to have a clue how to do REAL research)

 

Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice, cupidity or covetousness, is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

 

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So, YOU ALL who want what you do not have (have not earned and do not WANT to earn) are NOT greedy or selfish and the Founders ARE because they got it and you didn't? (Not directed at the people who DO want to pay, btw. At the fools who want the items for free. Because they are special or entitled or some other such drek.)

 

FYI, I don't care about the items. I DO care about DE breaking their word so that special people greedy little sots can have what their special needs greedy little hearts desire because they are entitled to deserve them.

 

Lock this already, DE. Enough is enough...

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[PoorCensored]

wanting more of what you already have but don't need is greed. And in this case the want for a frame/weapons (excal prime, lato and skana prime) that no one needs is greed since everyone already has or can obtain their normal versions.

Then arguably wanting anything in a video game is greedy, as you don't need video games.

How about the following? You have 5 friends hanging out, and one has a Hulu+ account, while the rest are free users. The Hulu+ user doesn't want to log into his account because he doesn't want his friends to have access to the shows he paid for but they didn't. While the 4 friends watch comercial sponsored TV from what is available from the limited free selection on the living room TV. The Hulu+ user streams commercial free Hulu+ only content to his phone while while watching the living room TV with his friends.

How would you describe the Hulu+ user?

[(PSN)Chip_Foamy]

Greed is wanting something you don't have! Stop calling Founders GREEDY! It may be considered selfish, but anyone without the Founders stuff who wants the Founders stuff, after the fact, is greedy!

Incorrect

 

It's called envy.

 

The two emotions we have going are envy of non founders and jealousy of founders, fearing and not wanting the benefits/opportunities they've gotten to be shared with others who are just as willing to pay as they were but were not given the opportunity because of choice of platform to play on.

 

And don't pretend founders were founding only at the very beginnning, the program was running right up until the release of the ps4 version.

[Kalenath]

Incorrect

 

It's called envy.

 

The two emotions we have going are envy of non founders and jealousy of founders, fearing and not wanting the benefits/opportunities they've gotten to be shared with others who are just as willing to pay as they were but were not given the opportunity because of choice of platform to play on.

 

And don't pretend founders were founding only at the very beginnning, the program was running right up until the release of the ps4 version.

 

And so NOW, people SHOULD get what the founders paid for free because they deserve it?

 

That... doesn't work for me.

 

If PS4 DOES get a 'Founder' package of some kind, even if it includes Excalibur Prime, I wouldn't mind. IF -AND I DO SAY IF- people actually have to SUPPORT the game to get it.

 

If they get it for free? DE can kiss off support from a LOT of their playerbase. Even a bunch of PS4 players would likely stop trusting DE if they act as so many on this forum seem to want them to.

 

The MAIN thing that Warframe has going for it is player loyalty. Take a dump on that like so many people here are demanding and see how long this game survives.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[Sev7n]

who gives a sh#t about the hulu + user cause that is irrelevant to the thread and the previous comment I made.

 

Let me try and dumb down what I had said so u can hopefully understand.

 

Greed=wanting more of what you already have even though you don't need it

 

Example: You have 1 chocolate bar, you don't need any more, you want more and pursue to get a 2nd chocolate bar. <even though the example is a harmless scenario it still falls under greed

[Kalenath]

So...

 

It is all right for YOU (the have-not in your argument) to act that way, but not for ME (the have in your argument)? Because I paid for what I got and you did not get what you did not pay for.

 

I see.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[PoorCensored]

Do you really think they care? They don't have it and they want it. That is enough for them.

 

But...

 

For those who cannot or will not look it up.

 

Greed

 

/grēd/

 

noun

1.

 

intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.

 

 

 

Or- from Wikipedia. Everyone's favorite be all and end all of research- (since so few people here seem to have a clue how to do REAL research)

 

Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice, cupidity or covetousness, is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So, YOU ALL who want what you do not have (have not earned and do not WANT to earn) are NOT greedy or selfish and the Founders ARE because they got it and you didn't? (Not directed at the people who DO want to pay, btw. At the fools who want the items for free. Because they are special or entitled or some other such drek.)

 

FYI, I don't care about the items. I DO care about DE breaking their word so that special people greedy little sots can have what their special needs greedy little hearts desire because they are entitled to deserve them.

 

Lock this already, DE. Enough is enough...

 

Re-read the definitions you provided: Those individuals who have an intense selfish desire for something and a concern about status are the current Founders who don't want those benefits made available again; not those Founders or non-Founders who are indifferent to the state of the benefits, or want the benefits to be available again.

 

You can't call someone greedy who is calling for greater availability for all to what for all practical terms can be an unlimited good with a push of a button. That's non-nonsensical.

 

You can call them many things, but greedy isn't one of them.

 

 

And so NOW, people SHOULD get what the founders paid for free because they deserve it?

 

That... doesn't work for me.

 

If PS4 DOES get a 'Founder' package of some kind, even if it includes Excalibur Prime, I wouldn't mind. IF -AND I DO SAY IF- people actually have to SUPPORT the game to get it.

 

If they get it for free? DE can kiss off support from a LOT of their playerbase. Even a bunch of PS4 players would likely stop trusting DE if they act as so many on this forum seem to want them to.

 

The MAIN thing that Warframe has going for it is player loyalty. Take a dump on that like so many people here are demanding and see how long this game survives.

 

Who's calling for it for free? Almost everyone I've seen advocating the re-release has been ok with them being re-released with conditions similar if not the same as the originals.

 

Not that I'd be opposed to Excalibur Prime being released for free, but I know I'm not calling for it, or asking for it.

 

Honestly, I don't advocate any particular action by DE about Founder's items - all actions, including inaction, have significant negatives.

 

Which is why I find exclusive items to be a bad, bad thing. But, I don't have a time machine.

 

who gives a sh#t about the hulu + user cause that is irrelevant to the thread and the previous comment I made.

 

Let me try and dumb down what I had said so u can hopefully understand.

 

Greed=wanting more of what you already have even though you don't need it

 

Example: You have 1 chocolate bar, you don't need any more, you want more and pursue to get a 2nd chocolate bar. <even though the example is a harmless scenario it still falls under greed

 

No, its not irrelevant. Its the exact same behavior. I specifically chose Hulu+ access because its a digital content service situation - just like Warframe's Founders Packs. Comparing the either to candy bars is bad - candy bars are physical goods that suffer from scarcity. For all meaningful purposes, virtual items don't naturally have scarcity - they only have artificially imposed scarcity.

 

Also, your definition is bad. "I'm not greedy, I only have one massive mansion and one massive yacht and only own one small island - and I don't want anymore. I just don't want anyone else to have a mansion, yacht, or small island." 

[LordChronos]

Then arguably wanting anything in a video game is greedy, as you don't need video games.

How about the following? You have 5 friends hanging out, and one has a Hulu+ account, while the rest are free users. The Hulu+ user doesn't want to log into his account because he doesn't want his friends to have access to the shows he paid for but they didn't. While the 4 friends watch comercial sponsored TV from what is available from the limited free selection on the living room TV. The Hulu+ user streams commercial free Hulu+ only content to his phone while while watching the living room TV with his friends.

How would you describe the Hulu+ user?

I describe him as someone who isn't responsible for his friends. He doesn't owe his friends anything. He paid for it, he got it. He didn't pay for his friends to have it too.

My friends wouldn't scrub off me. They'd pull their own weight because even though we DO share, they understand I don't owe it to them.

[Kalenath]

Who's calling for it for free? Almost everyone I've seen advocating the re-release has been ok with them being re-released with conditions similar if not the same as the originals.

 

Not that I'd be opposed to Excalibur Prime being released for free, but I know I'm not calling for it, or asking for it.

 

Honestly, I don't advocate any particular action by DE about Founder's items - all actions, including inaction, have significant negatives.

 

Which is why I find exclusive items to be a bad, bad thing. But, I don't have a time machine.

 

 

 

You may not be calling for it for free, but others here are demanding it because they deserve it. Not earned, not paid for, but deserved. Because.

 

MOST of us agree that one time exclusives were a bad idea. Hell, DE AGEES or they would have made MORE of the short time exclusives! Just look at SO many other F2P games if you want to see REAL money grabs. RiotGames anyone? Or ANYTHING by Ubisoft or NCSoft.

 

I personally do not think DE ever planned for the level of response they got when they asked for support. But now, some people here are demanding that the in game cosmetic signs of that support be GIVEN to them for no other reason than they deserve it. That is wrong to me.

 

IF PS4 gets a 'Founders' pack I don't think ANY of the Founders I personally know would MIND if Excalibur Prime was included. We would gripe, sure. That is our right on an internet forum. But really, truly MIND? That someone ELSE is supporting DE? Not hardly. (Some will I am sure. We are human after all, but not most)

 

I AGREE that exclusivity is hard to defend, but DEMANDING that things be given for free that were charged for is just as hard to defend.

 

All this angst over cosmetic status symbols. How... truly human.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[OniDax]

I still reject the notion that I, or other founders, are being greedy simply because we want DE to honor their word. I'd rather them come out with something, available to all, that is as cool as or cooler/more effective than the Founders stuff. DE said that the Founders stuff would not be available again. They should stick to their word. Otherwise, they lose credibility and trust from their customers. That's my biggest issue with it. I already have excalibur Prime, so Excalibur Prime being released isn't even my biggest issue, and the founders emblems (don't think those should be made available again, that or the solar landmarks or the hunter-grandmaster title). But I don't want DE to go back on what they've said. Because, if they do, I and others won't trust a thing they say after that. I know a lot of you don't value truthfulness, and someone honoring their word and doing/not doing what they said they'd do/not do, but I do. And the moment they go back on what they've agreed to, they lose all credibility and respect, and in the eyes of several in the community, that's as a company and as individuals.

[samok79]

I don't care about others. Exclusive is exclusive. They can always create new skins - see immortal skins -, a new helmet and call it Prim(O)Excalibur(O) and rearrange the polarity slots. But exclusive should have a meaning.

Just add a reverse engineering option - to create BPs from actual items - and voila! Tradeable exclusives!

 

Edit: Ofc that action would destroy the original. Let's just keep the number of exclusive items at the same level.

Edited March 14, 2014 by samok79

[Seox]

I don't care if they want to pay or not; The exclusive items were a reward of faith in us for our faith in a growing warframe. To "invest" now is laughable, because everyone knows warframe is on its feet and is likely to do well, but we didn't have the same assurance that they do now.

 

You can't watch the stock market until a fledgling company rockets into stardom, then go "Hey I saw you do that and didn't buy then, so let me have stocks at the old price so I can sell them and make money now" because that ship has sailed.

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Excalibur prime is a Warframe people wanna play with that's all yeah it would be free in the void on ps4 and the people who want him ASAP would  pay you all had to pay because it was exclusive and to help the game at the time its been a year people been saying? exclusive Excalibur prime shouldn't even be a exclusive Warframe any more plus  now that the game is big and more players our coming to the game why not add him so others can use him.

[MisterUltimate]

exclusive Excalibur prime shouldn't even be a exclusive Warframe any more plus  now that the game is big and more players our coming to the game why not add him so others can use him.

Because it's excluse. That it. No one said you have to like it, but that's the way it is.

I'd like an Excalibur Prime. I'm not getting one because I didn't buy a founder's pack. That's the end of it.

DE said they are discussing putting together something for PS4 players. Probably won't be founder's exclusives, and it's not because DE doesn't value PS4 players. Argue it here on the forums if you like, but it probably won't make a difference. Just being honest.

[LuckyS373NS]

I never liked Excalibur or Skana anyways.

*jets off on a model rocket with faux aviators from a dollar store*

EDIT: In all seriousness, though, exclusive should stay exclusive. People that bought Founder's Pack were promised that the items were limited availability. If that's pulled away, the value (sentimental or not) will be almost entirely gone.

Excalibur and Skana Prime aren't even that different from the default ones, save for polarity slots and *slightly* higher damage respectively.

Edited March 14, 2014 by LuckyS373NS

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Think about what your saying exclusive don't mean one time only plus ur a PC player im a Ps4 player where was ps4 when this exclusive only was going on? Oh yeah not out there for i had no idea about this and im sure most other ps4 players didn't also you missed out because ? It didnt matter to you or you didnt have the money at the time or you just started playing the game late like Ps4 players but the problem with that is we couldn't act on it or do anything about it just because founders gear help the game get rich shouldn't mean something should be exclusive one time only to thos that help with the game psn members couldn't help with the game because our system wasnt out yet thats the point & problem that cant be helped do to a promise that was ask for or just maid up to get more money for the game faster.        On top of that Excalibur is the main character in the game he got a prime form oh dang im ps4 we cant use him exclusive only and forever bad idea.  

[(PSN)Aeouin]

I will start with the disclosure that I personally have no interest in getting the founder pack. People keep stating how the founders items are exclusive. So if they did re-release the founders pack for a limited time those items would still be exclusive to the founders pack so DE would not be breaking their word. Now some would say bringing back the founders pack itself is a "betrayal". I could see their viewpoint if it were not for how DE handled the ending date of the original founders pack. They pushed pack the original date (march 16) for months to where those who found Warframe through steam could get it. They finally ended founders on Nov 1st just 2 weeks before the ps4 release. If they had just pushed it back just one more month it would have given ps4 players a chance to get it and a real reason for people to say "you were too late" to ps4 players that didn't get it. 

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

True but most of these guys cant seem to understand that point. psn members will never have i point and time to where we could have had everything or try to so making it exclusive for one system was bad good promise to you all but for us its like what in your face look what we got shut up its never coming back thats all i hear from most pc players no room for understanding just stop its our exclusive only sucks for you 

[Kalenath]

Think about what your saying exclusive don't mean one time only plus ur a PC player im a Ps4 player where was ps4 when this exclusive only was going on? Oh yeah not out there for i had no idea about this and im sure most other ps4 players didn't also you missed out because ? It didnt matter to you or you didnt have the money at the time or you just started playing the game late like Ps4 players but the problem with that is we couldn't act on it or do anything about it just because founders gear help the game get rich shouldn't mean something should be exclusive one time only to thos that help with the game psn members couldn't help with the game because our system wasnt out yet thats the point & problem that cant be helped do to a promise that was ask for or just maid up to get more money for the game faster.        On top of that Excalibur is the main character in the game he got a prime form oh dang im ps4 we cant use him exclusive only and forever bad idea.  

 

Google translate is not your friend. You might want to use a different one. Your argument is coming across to me as this:

 

-'I don't have it and want it so I am demanding it despite the lack of honor in such a juvenile display. I don't care if DE breaks their word because I want the items. Give them to me now.'-

 

This is what I read in your posts.

 

If that is untrue, say so.

 

If it IS true... EULA rules do not allow me to respond as I should in that case.

 

I will start with the disclosure that I personally have no interest in getting the founder pack. People keep stating how the founders items are exclusive. So if they did re-release the founders pack for a limited time those items would still be exclusive to the founders pack so DE would not be breaking their word. Now some would say bringing back the founders pack itself is a "betrayal". I could see their viewpoint if it were not for how DE handled the ending date of the original founders pack. They pushed pack the original date (march 16) for months to where those who found Warframe through steam could get it. They finally ended founders on Nov 1st just 2 weeks before the ps4 release. If they had just pushed it back just one more month it would have given ps4 players a chance to get it and a real reason for people to say "you were too late" to ps4 players that didn't get it. 

 

Most of us with sense have been proposing some kind of PS4 Founders package.

 

They ended the Founder's program with the idea that Sony would allow for some kind of PS4 Founder's program. Sony hasn't.

 

DE ended the Founder's program with plenty of warning. They extended it so more people could get a chance at it. They didn't need to. In my own opinion, they shouldn't have extended it. But they did. They needed the money to keep the game operating. Silly, huh?

 

If you want to pay to support the game, I have no problem with you getting rewards for your support. Even 'Founder's items if you are a 'Founder' on PS4 and Sony gets off their butt and allows such a thing.

 

But just having the Excalibur Prime, Lato Prime and Skana Prime drop in the Void on PS4 or just handed to all PS4 players (as some are demanding) would be a kick in the balls to every single Founder on PC. Many here don't seem to care about that. After all, why should they? It's not THEIR reputation or pocketbook that will take the hit if DE screws the Founders. DE wouldn't be able to keep the game going if a lot of the players bailed on them.

 

We KNOW that many of you don't care if the game fails. We get it. 

 

Some of us do care if the game survives.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Kalenath

[(PSN)PJZERO2]

Its called why make something exclusive on a game like its a different game on this system when its the same game but just play different do to it being on a other system thats it so one system get a exclusive and the other dont? right use some real points here. 

[Emeere]

Its called why make something exclusive on a game like its a different game on this system when its the same game but just play different do to it being on a other system thats it so one system get a exclusive and the other dont? right use some real points here. 

Real Points:

- PC was the Founding Platform.

 

- PS4 wasn't.

It doesn't get any more real than that.

[OniDax]

They just need to make up something as cool as the Prime gear to give to PS4 players as an exclusive. I'd be down with that. Sure, some would complain, but I think it'd be awesome (like Excalibur Vandal. I don't care for anything wraith or vandal so it'd be something unique and prized for PS4 players).

Edited March 14, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Ionus]

Then arguably wanting anything in a video game is greedy, as you don't need video games.

How about the following? You have 5 friends hanging out, and one has a Hulu+ account, while the rest are free users. The Hulu+ user doesn't want to log into his account because he doesn't want his friends to have access to the shows he paid for but they didn't. While the 4 friends watch comercial sponsored TV from what is available from the limited free selection on the living room TV. The Hulu+ user streams commercial free Hulu+ only content to his phone while while watching the living room TV with his friends.

How would you describe the Hulu+ user?

 

One difference. The people who want my precious loot aren't my friends. =.=