Melee 2.0: Shiny, But Useless Toy.

[Archangelzz]

While blocking you negate all damage in front of you and if you charge and parry at the same time you do a finisher which instant kills most standard enemies so your point that block and parrying need to be changed is invalid. Also stop whining and complaining and saying its going to be so bad when you haven't even used it yet actually try using it once it is released then if you don't like it feel free to complain all you want.

[LunarTemplar]

How about 'no', yeah , that works.

 

No, just cause you don't want it or think its stupid doesn't make it useless.

 

Some of us have been wanting a viable melee system for a long time cause SOME OF US don't actually want to use the cowards weapon, commonly called 'a gun'

[armedpoop]

Shot from Soma and kill target.

Shot from Penta and kill g. squad.

 

Stop being so creative and be effective.

And THIS is the words of somebody who has no idea what fun or mixing it up means. I feel sorry for you. 

 

You should try having fun some time, its not always about efficiency. Theres and time and place for everything young padawan.

[UGotNinjaTrolled]

Referring to the OP's post, I agree almost entirely. The only thing I don't like is the fact that, though you're making melee more viable, you're essentially hurting a playstyle with nerfing guns' ammo supplies. People that enjoy using guns will be gimped with less ammo, and you're basically forcing those people to participate in melee even if they don't want to.

 

Instead of that, I propose that gun ammo regenerates over time, and that ammo supplies are dependent on the gun you're using. For example, powerful guns like the Penta or Soma could only have 1 full clip at a time, and have their ammo regenerate slowly, whereas weapons like bows or the MK-1 Braton have larger ammo reserves since they're weaker, and regen their ammo quickly.

 

With this new system, a mod should also be implemented to increase a gun's ability to regenerate ammo. This will let the gun receive more ammo per time it regenerates ammo. Ex. Rather than 1 round per regen, 2 rounds are recovered.

 

These will both help alleviate the situation where a player is forced to use melee rather than their guns, even if they don't want to, without allowing guns to outshine melee entirely. However, this idea may cause camping in order to regenerate gun ammunition, which isn't fun for anyone unfortunately, and may require addition systems like a "need to be around enemies to regenerate ammo" system to prevent such occurrences.

 

Alternatively, you could just nerf guns entirely, making them a lower-risk lower-reward weapon than melee, but I really don't see that happening with the anti-nerf community. In any case, it will solve the risk-vs-reward disparity in one fell swoop.

 

Good post and good topic. +1'd.

[artemis9]

Bro.......... though I have to agree with you. WHY YOU GOT TO BE A HATER!!! Just lay back and relax and have fun watching badass combo sequences.

[Senparos]

it seems like as long as melee weapons are able to compete with the DPS of the guns (maybe giving them as much damage as a sniper rifle?), then and only then would they be useful enough to encourage using them instead of guns. Or if they have other bonuses. We'll see in a few hours(?) if that happens

Edited April 10, 2014 by Senparos

[Senparos]

it seems like as long as melee weapons are able to compete with the DPS of the guns (maybe giving them as much damage as a sniper rifle?), then and only then would they be useful enough to encourage using them instead of guns

[Sparrohawk]

The OP reminds me of the socialists that I see about my uni campus. They complain about everything; there's never agreement, never positivity within their messages. All I see here is a polemic with a very weak argument that doesn't even apply to anyone but himself.

[jjpdn]

This makes me think about something. Its completely true. Melee is mostly negated (more of a mobility tool for me) and almost useless, as most great weapons have exelent ammo efficiency. And if you're not using a machine gun, ammo is mostly neglected too. All of the suggestions above are a great way to make the game more fun in terms of 'OMG, I MUST USE SKILLS' instead of 'SPAM THE LEFT CLICK BUTTON, GUYS! AIM AND FIRE!'

[Zug9]

New melee system will be useless. It can be "beautiful", "imbalanced", "glitchy" etc - but it will be useless in real game.

 

 

Let's make it clean - Warframe is TPS with simplified combat mechanics. Game balance designed for a gunfight, and also has other problems on its own.

 

Main problems:

1) Ranged weapon master race.

It's quite simple: Risk vs. Reward. Ranged weapons have a minimal risk, but highest reward. You can kill enemies one by one from cover, or kite infected without the slightest danger. Moreover, ranged weapon has the highest damage, can penetrate obstacles (modding) and has a large reserve of ammunition (it can be replenished during the mission).

 

2) Powers.

Press 4 to win. To be invisible. To be immortal. To wipe room. To control room. To be contined...

 

3) Game balance.

a) СС problems - inevitable and irresistible control effects.

b) Tank vs late game - insane damage from high level enemies can easy kill any tank. It's fight of glasscannons.

с) Lack of combat etiquette - enemies can freely attack you in crowds, without any hindrances.

 

 

 

What need to be done for REAL Melee 2.0:

1) Absolute block and parry system.

Not DMC, but Jedy Knight and Metal Gear Rising battle type.

 

a) Bullet deflection - when you hold melee weapon, all "light" ranged attacks reflected automaticly. If you attack, it's changed to damage reduction - signifcantly lowered ranged damage.

b) Absolute block - special block can hold any sort of attack, defend from any CC effect.

c) Parry and counter - time-stricted action. Can open enemy for deadly/very strong (for bosses and leaders) counterattack, return "heavy" projectile to sender.

 

"Light" = bullets, plasma projectiles, etc. - any "usual" shot.

"Heavy" = rockets, Milter's disks, etc.

"Irresistible" = sniper's shot - сan not be parried or reflected, blockable only.

 

2) Enemy diversity.

All fractions adopted to modern warfare. They create new armor, shields and tactics to counter gunfire. What's why Way of the Sword is still alive - Tenno sword can beat unbeateable.

 

 

3) HP, tanking and CC system rework.

a) Rework of defence - defence modules with better effect. Real tank must miltigate some damage even on high levels, even from most dangerous enemies.

b) Stricted CC - all control effects can be avoided or blocked. There isn't any "insta-AOE-knockdown" or "infinity-chain-of-stuns". Handspring for free.

 

"You just wanna faceroll Pluto/T3/Nightmare!"

I want a chance to use my sword against Grineer squad or pack of Ancients/Chargers. Without the risk of being killed on the spot/controlled to the death.

 

 

4) Stricked ammunition for ranged weapon.

Each weapon should be limited to 1-3 clips. Supply of ammunition should be significantly limited. Ammo drops must die.

On Defence/Survival Lotus give you ammo drops.

 

That's the way to balance everything without nerfs. Use your gun now, or keep ammo for future boss? Kill this crowd with rocket launcher or take down armored leader without melee battle? Choices and decisions.

 

 

5) Stricked powers.

CD's and "rage" concept - you can gain energy only for damage/kill, melee give more energy.

 

 

 

P.S. "It's too difficult, you want to destroy the fun!"

I want VIABLE melee - not just funny toy. And simple shooter with unlimited powers can't have viable melee - there is just no way. It's question of game balance - every "melee orientated game" must strict ranged weapons.

/FACEPALM LULZ I THINK EQ STILL HAS SRVRS ROFL PLZ WE LIKE DIS GAME HOMMIE WUT R U SAYIN ON HERE DID U GO TO CITY SKOOLZ? 

[Zug9]

How about 'no', yeah , that works.

 

No, just cause you don't want it or think its stupid doesn't make it useless.

 

Some of us have been wanting a viable melee system for a long time cause SOME OF US don't actually want to use the cowards weapon, commonly called 'a gun'

Sorry for the double post, 

but I love you Lunar

[Razer_Angel21]

I am trying melee 2.0 right now and,you can now eat all what you have said right now..go on,try it.

[KONAir]

I am trying melee 2.0 right now and,you can now eat all what you have said right now..go on,try it.

 

Unless you are invisible, iron skinned or Blessed melee 2.0 will only end up getting you killed marginally slower then melee 1.0.

[Dead_Rabbits]

melee is now viable as ****, eat your words op, EAT THEM.

 

heavy gunners can't even knock me down when using fang prime, nor do they have time too.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Dead_Rabbits

[KaikelX]

Unless you are invisible, iron skinned or Blessed melee 2.0 will only end up getting you killed marginally slower then melee 1.0.

 

You forgot hysteria.

 

But on a serious note, I am rather enjoying facerolling entire squads of enemy troops by running straight at them and facerolling. Auto parry is actually useful now.

[letir]

I am trying melee 2.0 right now and,you can now eat all what you have said right now..go on,try it.

Really?

 

So:

1) Powers with same cost (Fleeting Expertise) still here.

2) Game balance probelm still here.

3) You need energy and stamina. A lot.

[Calsius]

melee is now viable as ****, eat your words op, EAT THEM.

 

heavy gunners can't even knock me down when using fang prime, nor do they have time too.

I say its viable, but stale. Oh, combos! I should just use them. Except I can't. Because they are drops. Goddamned enemy drops.

[(PSN)octus]

i think its really fun so far!! (im playing on my p.c. account not this one)

[KaikelX]

So far I've only found stamina a problem when I'm attempting to parry shots from an entire squad using automatic weapons. Which makes quite a bit of sense. I've yet to run into energy problems when channeling however, as I've noticed that many mods now add channel efficiency.

 

Lack of stances is a bummer though, still trying to grind for one.

 

Overall I rather like melee 2.0 (hopefully more when stances actually start dropping). Is melee viable compared to guns or powers? Hell no. However it is a marked improvement over the original melee system, as I can now pull stunts that would've gotten me killed under the old system. Though I probably shouldn't feel so good about myself completing my missions with just a glaive. 

[Warriorrogue]

Really?

 

So:

1) Powers with same cost (Fleeting Expertise) still here.

2) Game balance probelm still here.

3) You need energy and stamina. A lot.

So, please explain how I managed 50% damage with ability spamming teammates.

Pure melee.

On a 20 minute nuovo run.

You don't need stamina, but it's helpful.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Warriorrogue

[letir]

So, please explain how I managed 50% damage with ability spamming teammates.

Pure melee.

On a 20 minute nuovo run.

You don't need stamina, but it's helpful.

They don't bring Nova?

 

You need stamina for sprint, blocking and melee.

[KaikelX]

Bar blocking, neither sprinting into combat or meleeing take up very much stamina. I was able to slide attack with reliability into the next group of enemies and go to town on them. As for blocking, I've actually found auto-parry to be quite useful. It doesn't appear to drain my stamina at all when proccing, and can go up to blocking 50 percent of all incoming fire.

 

I've taken to tooling around my Mag to find a good melee build. (dropping most of the ability affecting mods, going shield tank and melee boosts). Quite fun to go all-in on the enemy with.

 

Wouldn't recommend against infested, but melee is kinda their thing :P

Edited April 10, 2014 by KaikelX

[letir]

Reflection is better, IMO.

[DuRockBR]

To me looks great. I made some modifications in my loudouts and I was using melee only 'till now. My melees are really strong even without stance mods and in T3 mission. The people that are complaining  needs to be patience and learn how to use  your melee and how to build it in a effective way. 

I'm doing good 'cause I used to melee enemies even before Melee 2.0. Also, you can block knockbacks using channeling+block  or channeling attacks(I'm not sure about this second one).

I'll post a better review when I get more experience with another melee weapons and stance mods. I think a video would be great to not believers start to believe :)

I'm in love with melee 2.0 *u*

[Warriorrogue]

They don't bring Nova?

 

You need stamina for sprint, blocking and melee.

There was a nova.

Melee doesn't need stamina, it consumes it if there is stamina, but will still be usable if there is none.